DINOSAURS! Noah's Flood & other awesome questions.

[Not_By_Chance]

Yes, it's the stuff Jesus didn't quote and frankly didn't practice. Jesus never took part in stoning people to death for the man made laws of Leviticus. He was divinely diplomatic and quite clever in avoiding a direct clash with the errors of Judaism.

Jesus didn't avoid a clash, he had several encounters with the religious leaders of His day, the most spectacular being the one in Matthew Chapter 23:-
Mat 23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
Mat 23:2 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
Mat 23:3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Mat 23:4 They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
Mat 23:5 "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;
Mat 23:6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
Mat 23:7 they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them "Rabbi.'
Mat 23:8 "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
Mat 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
Mat 23:11 The greatest among you will be your servant.
Mat 23:12 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Mat 23:13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
Mat 23:14 [Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. Therefore you will be punished more severely.]
Mat 23:15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
Mat 23:16 "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
Mat 23:17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
Mat 23:18 You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
Mat 23:19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
Mat 23:20 Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
Mat 23:21 And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
Mat 23:22 And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
Mat 23:23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Mat 23:24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
Mat 23:26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
Mat 23:27 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
Mat 23:28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
Mat 23:29 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
Mat 23:30 And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
Mat 23:31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
Mat 23:33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
Mat 23:34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
Mat 23:35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
Mat 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
Mat 23:38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.
Mat 23:39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

 

[Commander]

I seem to have missed the 17th chapter of St. John's Apocalypse talking about the theory of evolution.

-CryptoLutheran

It's also in the 18th chapter. Babylon is where evolution began in their religious text Enuma elish.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

My point is that it is what is inspired by God is "scripture", not the bible, which was not put together some 300 years or so after the death of Jesus.

From texts and documents that were around just after our Lord's resurrection and while people who knew Him were still alive and guided by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

Ironically, all the races of Noah's kids returned to the same regions where those same races existed for ten's of thousands of years before the flood.

Impossible - the whole surface of the earth was rearranged after the flood, so the pre-flood world no longer existed. How therefore, could they have returned to the same regions?

 

[Colter]

Jesus didn't avoid a clash, he had several encounters with the religious leaders of His day, the most spectacular being the one in Matthew Chapter 23:-
Mat 23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
Mat 23:2 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
Mat 23:3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Mat 23:4 They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
Mat 23:5 "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;
Mat 23:6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
Mat 23:7 they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them "Rabbi.'
Mat 23:8 "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
Mat 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
Mat 23:11 The greatest among you will be your servant.
Mat 23:12 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Mat 23:13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
Mat 23:14 [Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. Therefore you will be punished more severely.]
Mat 23:15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
Mat 23:16 "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
Mat 23:17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
Mat 23:18 You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
Mat 23:19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
Mat 23:20 Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
Mat 23:21 And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
Mat 23:22 And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
Mat 23:23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Mat 23:24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
Mat 23:26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
Mat 23:27 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
Mat 23:28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
Mat 23:29 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
Mat 23:30 And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
Mat 23:31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
Mat 23:33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
Mat 23:34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
Mat 23:35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
Mat 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
Mat 23:38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.
Mat 23:39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

Clash over the errors of the OT scripture and other inaccurate parts of Judaism.

 

[RickG]

From texts and documents that were around just after our Lord's resurrection and while people who knew Him were still alive and guided by the Holy Spirit.

Citations please.

 

[Speedwell]

So He(Jesus) was not there when He created it? Look at Genesis 1!

How does that prove that the text of Gen 1 is the literal, inerrant and perspicuous product of plenary verbal inspiration? John is not talking about the text, he's talking about the event itself.

 

[ViaCrucis]

My point is that it is what is inspired by God is "scripture", not the bible, which was not put together some 300 years or so after the death of Jesus.

2 Timothy 3:16

More accurately, there was never a "putting together" of the Canon. The development of the Biblical Canon took place over many centuries, both in the early patristic period as well as centuries following in the medieval and early modern period. There has never been a definitive "closing" of the Canon as it were. The issue can be said to be settled in many traditions/denominations because of either confessional statements to the matter, or in the case of the Roman Catholic Church the issue was settled at the Council of Trent. But in the ancient period no such examples exist for us, regional councils such as at Carthage and Laodicea established what was to be read, liturgically, in those relevant diocese, but even in the case of Carthage and Laodicea the two don't actually completely agree on the limits of the Canon (notably Laodicea makes no mention of the Apocalypse, as was common in the East as the Apocalypse remained antilegomena in the East up to around the 7th century).

What actually established the Canon wasn't councils or the decrees of churchmen, but the consensus, reception, and use in the churches themselves--it was by the general consensus of the Faithful that, ultimately, established canonicity. One will frequently find in the patristic literature statements about what is to be "read" in the churches, this very much has to do not with what individuals could or couldn't read on their own time, but what was to be read liturgically, as part of the Church's worship, what we call Scripture readings; one of the many parts of Christian liturgy inherited from Jewish synagogue liturgical worship (c.f. Luke 4:16-20, First Apology of Justin, ch. 67).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

It's also in the 18th chapter. Babylon is where evolution began in their religious text Enuma elish.

The Enuma Elish is an ancient Babylonian text. You've never read it, if you had you'd know that no mention of evolution is made. Further the "Babylon" of the Apocalypse isn't ancient Babylon, it's Rome.

But I suspect that you are also a faithful follower of Alexander Hislop and his "Two Babylons" fiction. If that's the case then any rational conversation will be rather impossible here.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Commander]

When the earthquake happens they break! Did you not notice he was using a piece that had been split? The strata is not split in what I was addressing. I have seen it many times in my observation, and I have noticed that the strata is not split between the layers-as opposed in the youtube video.

 

[Colter]

Impossible - the whole surface of the earth was rearranged after the flood, so the pre-flood world no longer existed. How therefore, could they have returned to the same regions?

Because the cultures and races that exist today such as the Australian aborigines have been there for 70,000 thousand years. The American Indian for at least 45,000+ years, in the Tianyuan Cave in China they have found 42,000 year old remains.

The impossible is Noah's vastly exaggerated flood story created by the Hebrew authors of the OT.

 

[Commander]

The Enuma Elish is an ancient Babylonian text. You've never read it, if you had you'd know that no mention of evolution is made. Further the "Babylon" of the Apocalypse isn't ancient Babylon, it's Rome.

But I suspect that you are also a faithful follower of Alexander Hislop and his "Two Babylons" fiction. If that's the case then any rational conversation will be rather impossible here.

-CryptoLutheran

The story of Enuma Elish has two basic parts. The first involves a cosmogony, the beginning of the universe, and a theogony, the birth of the gods. The second part of the epic tells of the battle between the god Marduk and the chaos-dragon Tiamat and how Marduk became the king of the gods. The work ends with the construction of a city for Marduk, Babylon, and a temple for him, called Esagilla, in the city. Finally, Marduk is enthroned as chief god.

Never read Alexander Hislop. Yes, Revelation is speaking of the city of Rome and her Emperor's, and I also believe the Babylonian worshipers. For the Jews were delivered from Babylon, there may have been those who followed their beliefs. There is only one God.

 

[Colter]

When the earthquake happens they break! Did you not notice he was using a piece that had been split? The strata is not split in what I was addressing. I have seen it many times in my observation, and I have noticed that the strata is not split between the layers-as opposed in the youtube video.

Yes, he used a piece that was split to illustrate that rock bends. Under heat, pressure and time rock bends a lot. Glass bends, under heat it bends more and stays bent.

Your claim that rock only bends in the mind of an evolutionist had been debunked in rather short order.

 

[Commander]

How does that prove that the text of Gen 1 is the literal, inerrant and perspicuous product of plenary verbal inspiration? John is not talking about the text, he's talking about the event itself.

In the beginning God.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The story of Enuma Elish has two basic parts. The first involves a cosmogony, the beginning of the universe, and a theogony, the birth of the gods. The second part of the epic tells of the battle between the god Marduk and the chaos-dragon Tiamat and how Marduk became the king of the gods. The work ends with the construction of a city for Marduk, Babylon, and a temple for him, called Esagilla, in the city. Finally, Marduk is enthroned as chief god.

That's a pretty good synopsis. Which begs the question, why do you think the Enuma Elish has anything to do with evolution?

Never read Alexander Hislop. Yes, Revelation is speaking of the city of Rome and her Emperor's, and I also believe the Babylonian worshipers. For the Jews were delivered from Babylon, there may have been those who followed their beliefs. There is only one God.

There would have been far more likely interaction between Zoroastrians and Jews, the Persians and later the Greeks had far more influence over the lives and political affairs of the Jews than Babylonia ever did. In fact one of the biggest intra-Jewish conflicts of the ancient post-exilic period involved the Hellenization of the Jews, Hellenized Jews were frequently disdained by Judean Jews--such conflict can even be seen mentioned in the New Testament itself; and the issue of Hellenization goes back to the conquests of Alexander the Great, the Diadochi successors, and the entire issue of the Hasmonean dynasty and control over the Temple/priests in the Maccabean era.

And, still, nothing about evolution here. Which, again begs the question, why make the claim if you know better?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Commander]

Yes, he used a piece that was split to illustrate that rock bends. Under heat, pressure and time rock bends a lot. Glass bends, under heat it bends more and stays bent.

Your claim that rock only bends in the mind of an evolutionist had been debunked in rather short order.

Also notice he did not put any pressure on the rock he was demonstrating with, he knew as with anyone with common sense would know, that it would break. So he did not debunk anything, but just how some people are gullible enough to believe in the non-sense.

 

[ViaCrucis]

In the beginning God.

You do realize that those of us who accept science don't deny God or God's role in creation right? We are quite capable of reciting the Creed where it says, "We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen" with total faith.

Whenever I recite the Creed I don't cross my fingers behind my back, I believe it and I mean it.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Commander]

Yes, he used a piece that was split to illustrate that rock bends. Under heat, pressure and time rock bends a lot. Glass bends, under heat it bends more and stays bent.

Your claim that rock only bends in the mind of an evolutionist had been debunked in rather short order.

Find a real picture for the evidence of your claim, it's only there in a drawing from a secular scientist!

 

[Colter]

Also notice he did not put any pressure on the rock he was demonstrating with, he knew as with anyone with common sense would know, that it would break. So he did not debunk anything, but just how some people are gullible enough to believe in the non-sense.

You are not an honest person. He pinched the two pieces and closed the gap.

The photographs you provided are in fact stratified rock layers (the kind that contains fossils) that have been bent over time. But that doesn't fit the Hebrews creation story which later generations claimed were written by God. So you have to be dishonest. Sadly you believe your on dishonesty while calling others gullible.

 

[Commander]

That's a pretty good synopsis. Which begs the question, why do you think the Enuma Elish has anything to do with evolution?




There would have been far more likely interaction between Zoroastrians and Jews, the Persians and later the Greeks had far more influence over the lives and political affairs of the Jews than Babylonia ever did. In fact one of the biggest intra-Jewish conflicts of the ancient post-exilic period involved the Hellenization of the Jews, Hellenized Jews were frequently disdained by Judean Jews--such conflict can even be seen mentioned in the New Testament itself; and the issue of Hellenization goes back to the conquests of Alexander the Great, the Diadochi successors, and the entire issue of the Hasmonean dynasty and control over the Temple/priests in the Maccabean era.

And, still, nothing about evolution here. Which, again begs the question, why make the claim if you know better?

-CryptoLutheran

It represent a creation other than, in the beginning God created. Evolution has evolved(pun) since that time of the Babylons into what it is today. The Bible depicts that there is only one true God(not many gods/or no God), who created man, man defied God, and then God also saved man through Jesus Christ. Evolutionist believe that God had nothing to do with the creation, and there for had to explain(without God) of how we are here, what our purpose is. With the word of God it is explained, where it cannot be by the theory of evolution.