Dinosaur Duck Discovered!!

[The Barbarian]

Likewise; NO! NO! A THOUSAND TIMES, NO! I am bloody fed up with God hating, grave robbing, skull and bones worshipping Evolutionists like you trying to justify racism, mass murder and the Holocaust of Africans, Jews, and the extermination of any and all other dark skinned races, including your own kind to try and justify your contempt and hatred of God, humanity and science.

If not a poe, there's something really, really wrong here.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Yes Dawkins IS pointing to a single moment in time, to an animal he calls "Common Ancestor", and I am asking what species was that animal?

Was it human, or gorilla?

So you're saying that the gorilla magically changed into an ape called; Ardipithecus correct? How did this population of gorillas turn into Ardipithecus? Was it overnight, where scientists would check and say: "yep, after careful forensic and DNA (or whatever) examination this entire population is gorilla", and the next moment, after careful examination they would verify that the entire population of gorillas are now no more gorillas, but; "Ardipithecus"?

Now I ask: Did the entire population of gorillas give birth to a bunch of Ardipithecus? Or did they magically turn into Ardipithecus?

My next question would be, "How did the Ardipithecus apes turn into human apes?

Sure he points to a common ancestor, but he is not saying there was a radical change at this point. Rather, this is the point where the two species divided. They may have lived thousands of years indistinguishable from each other. But from that point on, they were seperete species.

 

[doubtingmerle]

How, .. was it overnight where the population of gorillas are gorilla one day, and mutate into human the next?

No, over millions of years.

And most likely we split from chimps, not gorillas.

 

[doubtingmerle]

That is what Religion does to people, make them accept their stories on "blind faith".

Then perhaps you might want to avoid religion.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

The population of gorillas had to change into human one way or another, no matter how long it took.

Please tell me HOW this change occurred?

You telling me "it took a long time", .. or "gradually" does not answer how a population of gorillas changed into human now does it?

How about this: "Stop teaching my children that they evolved from gorillas, and stop calling humans animals" it has caused hundreds of millions of innocent lives through discrimination. Or, just speak for yourself!

That's not how it went. And you really are dense.

 

[Arius]

Evolutionists are not saying this. Evolutionists have never said this. Evolutionists never will say this. These statements differ so dramatically from what evolutionists actually say that they are irrelevant to any discussion of evolution.

I am willing to spend as much time as necessary to help you understand what is actually being said. All I ask is that you work with me to achieve the necessary understanding. You have every right to reject the theory of evolution, but if you intend to reject it then it makes sense that you understand what you are rejecting. The strawman you have attacked in the quoted paragraph has nothing to do with TOE.

Here is an initial effort to help you reach that understanding.

The example/analogy above are much closer to the concept of evolution than the inaccurate representation you, rightly, attacked. Do you understand how this analogy relates to biology? If not, please detail your concerns and I shall attempt to address them. If you do understand it, what do you consider to be faulty with the idea?

Source of graphic: Beautiful Analogy for Evolution

Yes, I am honestly asking you to prove to me this Evolution Religion is actually a scientific theory, so then I too could come out of this delusional belief that I am free-willed created being, and return to my animal ancestry of apes and continue to live by instinct, driven by nature, .. my environment and what I eat.
This way I would not feel guilty when I rob, rape, pillage and kill other human or any other animal less fit than me! And where I would no longer judge other animals like Gacy, Dahmer, Hitler, Pol Pot etc. for doing what nature itself drove them (mutated them) to do, .. yes, please do, .. and I thank you ahead of time!

First, no, I cannot agree that the text is red and blue at the same time, what you have is a gradient from red to blue, which according to your Evolution Religion are individual species of animals all evolving at the same time, correct? Also note that animals can't evolve in the grave like your Religion claims by showing us thousands of "transitional- fossils" as if these bones of animals evolved/speciated in the grave, and no living proof of these transitions needed.

For instance I will name three animals from your gradient, "red", "purple" and "blue".
Let's call Red gorilla, the purple Ardipithecus, and the blue; human. Your Religion can't even find living creatures of these three, let alone the millions that should be evident in every stage of every "living" creature from amoeba to us humans.

Since you are helping me to understand Evolution by this color gradient, first show me "living animals" that would represent that gradient, or please don't try to pull a NASA globe, and CERN quantum cosmological "millions and billions and trillions of years

B.S. on me.

But, if you truly believe that this justifies your Religion and proves evolutions "gradual speciation", (which you will soon see that it doesn't) .. then please my friend, let me introduce you to your Creator God in whose image you were created, outside the bonds of Religious Indoctrinations:

The One and Only Possible Infinite and Eternal Creative Conscious Mind/Spirit "I Am"!

God bless you.

 

[Skreeper]

Yes, I am honestly asking you to prove to me this Evolution Religion is actually a scientific theory, so then I too could come out of this delusional belief that I am free-willed created being, and return to my animal ancestry of apes and continue to live by instinct, driven by nature, .. my environment and what I eat.
This way I would not feel guilty when I rob, rape, pillage and kill other human or any other animal less fit than me! And where I would no longer judge other animals like Gacy, Dahmer, Hitler, Pol Pot etc. for doing what nature itself drove them (mutated them) to do, .. yes, please do, .. and I thank you ahead of time!

Are you really suggesting that you would just start raping and murdering should you lose your faith? If so then please try as hard as you can to never leave your faith since you are a very dangerous individual.

I hope you are aware that an impaired ability to feel empathy and remorse is part of a certain dangerous personality disorder.

 

[Arius]

Are you really suggesting that you would just start raping and murdering should you lose your faith? If so then please try as hard as you can to never leave your faith since you are a very dangerous individual.

LOL, .. like you are not dangerous!?
Everyone can be dangerous, especially those who been indoctrinated by a dangerous Religion like what this Evolution Religion is.

When my son developed consistent problems with his tonsils, several doctors suggested to have them removed. While preparing him for the surgery, the good Doctor came in the waiting room to try to comfort us seeing we were worried about the procedure. He came in and told us "not to worry, this is a very common procedure with children, even with those who never have problems with their tonsils prefer to have them removed because they are just one of our vestigial organs."

Now I was really worried, what is this animal doctor going to ask me next?
"Hey, you know what? Now that he is put under, do you want me to remove the rest of his vestigial organs while I'm in there, like his coccyx?"

I hope you are aware that an impaired ability to feel empathy and remorse is part of a certain dangerous personality disorder.

Oh no you don't, either you stick with your Evolution Religion; "natural selection at the whim of your environment", .. or "Creation by Intelligent Design, where we were carefully designed, and then put together by a Creator, who after creating us examined us and saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good." .. who also taught us right from wrong, like we try to do with our own children!

In Evolution, empathy (the ability to understand and share the feelings of another) could greatly jeopardize the survival of ones entire species. How do you think the "wild dogs of Africa" would survive worrying about the feelings of the animal 5 times their size that they start eating from the behind, avoiding being bludgeoned to death by the horns of their dinner!?

You see, I'm not a hypocrite, if I truly believed in the evolution story, I would not suggest other animals to do something that could endanger their survival, like empathy. Now if my fellow animal expresses empathy at certain times (like a female Lyon right after having her cubs) hey, fine, as long as there is no danger, and still have enough to feed the family. Like this:

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

In Evolution, empathy (the ability to understand and share the feelings of another) could greatly jeopardize the survival of ones entire species.

You really could not be more wrong.

 

[Skreeper]

In Evolution, empathy (the ability to understand and share the feelings of another) could greatly jeopardize the survival of ones entire species.

You are wrong and it clearly shows that you know nothing about the topic.

The Evolution of Empathy

I recommend reading this article if you want to understand how empathy benefits species. But I doubt you will.

 

[doubtingmerle]

LOL, .. like you are not dangerous!?
Everyone can be dangerous, especially those who been indoctrinated by a dangerous Religion like what this Evolution Religion is.

When my son developed consistent problems with his tonsils, several doctors suggested to have them removed. While preparing him for the surgery, the good Doctor came in the waiting room to try to comfort us seeing we were worried about the procedure. He came in and told us "not to worry, this is a very common procedure with children, even with those who never have problems with their tonsils prefer to have them removed because they are just one of our vestigial organs."

Now I was really worried, what is this animal doctor going to ask me next?
"Hey, you know what? Now that he is put under, do you want me to remove the rest of his vestigial organs while I'm in there, like his coccyx?"



Oh no you don't, either you stick with your Evolution Religion; "natural selection at the whim of your environment", .. or "Creation by Intelligent Design, where we were carefully designed, and then put together by a Creator, who after creating us examined us and saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good." .. who also taught us right from wrong, like we try to do with our own children!

In Evolution, empathy (the ability to understand and share the feelings of another) could greatly jeopardize the survival of ones entire species. How do you think the "wild dogs of Africa" would survive worrying about the feelings of the animal 5 times their size that they start eating from the behind, avoiding being bludgeoned to death by the horns of their dinner!?

You see, I'm not a hypocrite, if I truly believed in the evolution story, I would not suggest other animals to do something that could endanger their survival, like empathy. Now if my fellow animal expresses empathy at certain times (like a female Lyon right after having her cubs) hey, fine, as long as there is no danger, and still have enough to feed the family. Like this:

Wild dogs may not have empathy for the creatures they attack, but they have empathy for other dogs. Without that empathy they would never form the packs that make them so effective.

 

[doubtingmerle]

LOL, .. like you are not dangerous!?
Everyone can be dangerous, especially those who been indoctrinated by a dangerous Religion like what this Evolution Religion is.

LOL, no I am not dangerous. I'm just a big lovable teddy bear kind of guy.

Are you dangerous?

 

[Jimmy D]

I am bloody fed up with God hating, grave robbing, skull and bones worshipping Evolutionists like you trying to justify racism, mass murder and the Holocaust of Africans, Jews, and the extermination of any and all other dark skinned races, including your own kind to try and justify your contempt and hatred of God, humanity and science.

LOL

If you had actually taken the time to actually read anything about the definition of science, you would see that it says nothing about making up fantastic long-long-time-ago stories out of some dried up pigs jawbones, and fossils to encourage all sorts of horrible misdeeds perpetrated by humanity as we can see from history!

LOL

Science is "observing the world around us", NOT robbing graves, then making up "Once upon a time before time, millions and billions of years ago, .." stories falsely calling them "science"!
Oh yes, .. and if they don't find the missing-link-scull they're looking for, then they went and captured, then chained up some poor Aborigines, decapitate them, boil down their sculls and use them to decorate their desk with in the name of their Evolution Religion.

LOL

- A gruesome trade in ‘missing link’ specimens began with early evolutionary/racist ideas. But this trade really ‘took off’ with the advent of Darwinism.
"In a previous Creation magazine we related evidence that perhaps 10,000 dead bodies of Australia’s Aboriginal people were shipped to British museums in a frenzied attempt to prove the widespread belief that they were the ‘missing link’"
Darwin's bodysnatchers: new horrors - creation.com

LOL

There is abso9lutely no difference between a Satanism and an Evolutionism, they both hate God and His creation, especially man. They call man, or us humans; "animals", that we descended from some bacteria and rats, and then have the audacity to put signs on your white-supremacist business doors saying: "Absolutely no animals allowed in store!" .. yet allow all shades of skin colored animals to come in the stores!? I guess you still need us "animals" to shop your merchandise, right?

LOL

Over the years I actually read all that I could stomach about your Evolution! We escaped from a Communist country, where the ONLY religion allowed was "Evolution". Just mentioning Creation by I.D. or the word "God, or Creator" could result in my parents arrest, imprisonment and even torture. For us kids, it was usually a hard slap in the face. So please, your Jedi-MK mind tricks don't work on me anymore.

Remember that God loves you, you don't have to give in to this hate-Religion that I call "BB-Evolution and Sci-Fientology"

LOL

What the heck did I just read?

 

[Jimmy D]

Likewise; NO! NO! A THOUSAND TIMES, NO! I am bloody fed up with God hating, grave robbing, skull and bones worshipping Evolutionists like you trying to justify racism, mass murder and the Holocaust of Africans, Jews, and the extermination of any and all other dark skinned races, including your own kind to try and justify your contempt and hatred of God, humanity and science.

Have you got any specific examples of this? It seems like something you've made up.

 

[xianghua]

Yes, I am honestly asking you to prove to me this Evolution Religion is actually a scientific theory

its not, as you can see here: the self replicating watch argument

 

[Ophiolite]

Yes, I am honestly asking you to prove to me this Evolution Religion is actually a scientific theory, so then I too could come out of this delusional belief that I am free-willed created being, and return to my animal ancestry of apes and continue to live by instinct, driven by nature, .. my environment and what I eat.
This way I would not feel guilty when I rob, rape, pillage and kill other human or any other animal less fit than me! And where I would no longer judge other animals like Gacy, Dahmer, Hitler, Pol Pot etc. for doing what nature itself drove them (mutated them) to do, .. yes, please do, .. and I thank you ahead of time!

First, no, I cannot agree that the text is red and blue at the same time, what you have is a gradient from red to blue, which according to your Evolution Religion are individual species of animals all evolving at the same time, correct? Also note that animals can't evolve in the grave like your Religion claims by showing us thousands of "transitional- fossils" as if these bones of animals evolved/speciated in the grave, and no living proof of these transitions needed.

For instance I will name three animals from your gradient, "red", "purple" and "blue".
Let's call Red gorilla, the purple Ardipithecus, and the blue; human. Your Religion can't even find living creatures of these three, let alone the millions that should be evident in every stage of every "living" creature from amoeba to us humans.

Since you are helping me to understand Evolution by this color gradient, first show me "living animals" that would represent that gradient, or please don't try to pull a NASA globe, and CERN quantum cosmological "millions and billions and trillions of years

B.S. on me.

But, if you truly believe that this justifies your Religion and proves evolutions "gradual speciation", (which you will soon see that it doesn't) .. then please my friend, let me introduce you to your Creator God in whose image you were created, outside the bonds of Religious Indoctrinations:

The One and Only Possible Infinite and Eternal Creative Conscious Mind/Spirit "I Am"!

God bless you.

Arius, I made my offer to assist you in understanding the theory of evolution in good faith.

I responded to you politely and respectfully, hoping to receive a reply in a similar vein.

I gave an example that provided, in my view, a very effective analogy, specifically to help you recognise a particular misunderstanding in your thinking regarding the TOE. I offered this, also, in good faith.

I did not expect, nor do I welcome, a response that seemed filled with vitriol, attacked further strawmen and resonated with sarcasm and bitterness.

I am especially disappointed that you seem to believe my aim is to convince you as to the accuracy of the TOE. I specifically addressed that in my post. You have a right to believe what you wish. You do not, however, have a right to insist upon your misunderstandings of the TOE. It is to remove those misunderstandings I was willing to work with you, via discussion on this thread. I am still willing to do so, but in a spirit of mutual respect. I look to a concilatory response from your good self, so that I can then reply appropriately, and I hope informatively, to the one relevant question from your post and to any other you choose to ask.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Oh come on, stop stalling or pretending you don't know what I'm talking about.
He said "we evolved from rats, .. that rats are our/human ancestors, so the rats had to go through millions of changes (shades between blue and green, .. remember?) and since the rats we have today have fulfilled every step that Evolutionists claim changes one species into another (environment, food, etc.), why aren't they looking for those about to speciate? At least "look, observe", .. you know, science, .. after all, isn't the definition of the word evolution = science? That's what you guys claim when someone questions evolution, you say they are questioning science! Yet Evolution seems to be built solely on "millions and billions of years ago" fairytale stories, .. no science whatsoever evolved.

In other words, did rats ever change from one species into another over millions and billions of years where they finally ended up as us humans, .. or no?

Rather than misquote Dawkins, it would be more honest to use what he actually said - that we are 'distant cousins' of rats (and other creatures). He didn't say we evolved from them.

Arrogant and mocking dismissal of a theory based on misquotes and what appears to be a comprehensive lack of understanding of it, speaks volumes about your approach to the discussion.

 

[DogmaHunter]

How could you say that, .. are you saying the family-tree poster Dawkins is showing

Not a single "monkey" is depicted on that tree.
At least not, if we are going to use correct terminology.

Unless you are being scientific about it claiming apes are not monkeys?

Exactly.

Lions, cheetahs, leopards, tigers = cats
chimps, bonobos, gorillas, orangutans etc. = monkeys

Maybe in every-day language at the bar.
Not so much if you care about using correct terminology.
A chimp is not a monkey.

Ape vs Monkey - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

I beg to differ, just as I have shown you with the Ota Benga video. Darwin was also very prejudiced:

- Darwin didn’t hide his view that his evolutionary thinking applied to human races as well as to animal species. The full title of his seminal 1859 book was On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life. He followed up more explicitly in The Descent of Man, where he spelled out his racial theory:

- The Western nations of Europe . . . now so immeasurably surpass their former savage progenitors [that they] stand at the summit of civilization. . . . The civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races through the world. -
What Your Biology Teacher Didn’t Tell You About Charles Darwin

It doesn't matter what Darwin said. If it's wrong, it's wrong.

The fact is that all homo sapiens are "just as evolved".
A white caucasian is related to chimps and gorilla's in the exact same way as the blackest of africans or aboriginals.

We all come from the same ancestral homo sapiens population.

No white European considers himself an animal, or that he evolved from apes

This white European does.
Most white Europeans do, actually.
Including those at the Vatican.

Look: As I went to the my Electric company to pay my bill, on the door was a sign in clear black and white: "Absolutely no animals of any kind allowed in building!", and I see white people go in and out of there all day long, and not one stopped to ask themselves if they should go in or not?

It's hard to take you seriously, when you say things like that.

Homo Sapiens is an animal in the biological sense.
In day-to-day english, an animal is "any organism belonging to the kingdom of animalia, except humans".

But humans most definatly belong to the kingdom of animalia. We sure as hell aren't plants...........

And don't forget that in the South, it wasn't that long ago that Blacks were segregated, couldn't even go into restaurants, not even use the same toilet with whites.

Yes, it's called racism.

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
... 18 And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.”
19 Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name.
20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.

When you are discussing facts of reality, like Australopethicus fossils, then your response should not consist of a bunch of bible quotes.

Show me a specific animals species, like an ape, that after 4 billion years is ready to make that final jump to human? We have millions of apes and other animals, surely some are ready to speciate by now no?
You say that the 8 million species alive today came from amoeba, if that is remotely true, it's been over 4 billion years, we should be witnessing speciation by the day, .. if it happened before, what happened, after Darwin noticed the different species, .. they stopped speciating? lol

Instead of responding to this nonsense, I'll just give you a bit of advice....

Learn what evolution actually is all about, before trying to argue against it. Because at this point, there is so much you are wrong about that every sentence you write, would require half an essay to correct for all the mistakes, misunderstandings and strawmen.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Fine, I will use the word ape (as if that makes any difference) the story goes, where a strand of these apes gradually, ........... tiny quantum speck within a cell at a time, influenced by the same food source, by the same sun, by the same tectonic plate movements, same imaginary meteor showers like all the other animals (and humans as we see in Africa) have, and then through some powerful magic Mother Nature and Father Time at a specific moment in time flipped the switch on this family from animal ape, to human.

Do you understand how the word "gradual" is in contradiction with the words "at a specific moment in time flipped the switch"?

Oh, and I object being classified as an animal, it is rude, and discriminating.

That's neat. But reality doesn't depend on your emotional objections or wants or needs or likes.

Hitler did that to my ancestors, called us rats and used it to justify wiping us off the face of the earth. If men can dress up as women and scream "discrimination" when someone calls them men, then I should have the same rights NOT to be labeled an animal. Everyone including infants can differentiate between an animal and a human.

Again, your emotional objections have no bearing on reality.
Your comment about Hitler is irrelevant as well - as nazi's were animals as well. All humans are.

The fact of the matter is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to come up with a definition that describes what an "animal" is, which includes all animals, but does not include humans, without explicitly adding "...but not humans".

Because humans simply ARE animals. It's as simple as that.

animal
ˈanɪm(ə)l/
noun
noun: animal; plural noun: animals

1. 1.
   a living organism which feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous system and able to respond rapidly to stimuli.

Humans are living organisms. We feed on organic matter. We have specialised sense organs. We have a nervous system. We are able to respond rapidly to stimuli.

Here's a more detailed biological definition:

Animal
From Biology-Online Dictionary

Jump to: navigation, search
Definition

noun, plural: animals

A living organism belonging to Kingdom Animalia that possess several characteristics that set them apart from other living things, such as:

(1) being eukaryotic (i.e. the cell contains a membrane-bound nucleus) and usually multicellular (unlike bacteria and most protists, an animal is composed of several cells performing specific functions) (
2) being heterotrophic (unlike plants and algae that are autotrophic, an animal depends on another organism for sustenance) and generally digesting food in an internal chamber (such as a digestive tract)
(3) lacking cell wall (unlike plants, algae and some fungi that possess cell walls)
(4) being generally motile, that is being able to move voluntarily
(5) embryos passing through a blastula stage
(6) possessing specialized sensory organs for recognizing and responding to stimuli in the environment


You are free to point out how we humans do not fit that definition.

Besides, I have never in my life noticed either theist or atheist, Creationist or Evolutionist stop front of a business, or grocery store and wonder what they should do after reading a clearly marked sign that says: "Absolutely No Animals Allowed in Store!"

Most people are smart enough to know that words can have different meanings in different contexts.

The use of the word "animal" is dependend on context.
When talking biology, an animal is an organism that fits the above definition.
When talking day-to-day english, an animal is any organism that fits the above definition except humans.

If an animal ape changed, speciated, morphed into a human, .. or if a lizard changed into a bird, all I'm asking is for someone to tell me; "how did this happen?"

- reproduce with variation
- survive
- repeat

And yes, I know all about the variety of pigeons, and horses, and dogs we can breed, but they all remain pigeons, horses and dogs.

If they would not remain such, evolution would be false.
See this is why I adviced you to inform yourself on at least the basics of evolution.

look, lets go with the gorilla, . gorilla, .. gorilla loosing it's hair, .. gorilla playing with fire, .. gorilla walking more on his hind feet, .. gorilla wondering what the heck he can use the fire for, .. human, .. human starts to roast wild pigs belly (has bacon and eggs for breakfast), human moves out from the cave and builds houses, cities, invents languages, Religions, gods!

See that moment where the gorilla turns into human?

Humans are not descendents of gorilla's. They share ancestors with gorilla's.
Having said that, your absurd "flow of events" is just that: absurd.

It is clear that you really have no idea what you are talking about.
I advice, again, to learn a bit of the basics before continuing this discussion.
It is useless at this point.

This had to happen when the gorilla was alive, it couldn't of happen after it died, and it's bones fossilized, right?

It's like you can't get ANYTHING right....
Individuals don't evolve. Populations do. Gradually.

Just like a Latin speaking mother has never raised a Spanish speaking child. Just like no Latin speaking individual invented Spanish overnight.

Instead, the language of a Latin speaking population turned into Spanish gradually over many generations. And at no point in this history was there a generation that spoke a different language then the generation that immediatly preceeded it.

Every creature ever born, was of the same species as its parents.
Just like every human ever born, ended up speaking the same language as its parents.

Yet Latin, over the course of 2000 years, turned into French, Italian, Spanish, Portugese...
All "roman languages". But all different languages.
A latin speaking individual of ancient Rome would not understand the french from the 21st century, except a few words left and right. Not enough for a proper conversation.

Evolution of life isn't any different.

So WHAT happened? Did the female gorilla give birth to a white girl

As explained above: no.

(Dawkins depiction in the video) or did the gorilla father and mother overnight change into humans who started the human race?

No.

Fact, two gorillas can't produce a human baby.

Correct.

So, .. either both male and female gorillas had to change human overnight, or give birth to human twins, a girl and a boy.
I'm just asking: "Which is it?"

Neither.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Do you understand how the word "gradual" is in contradiction with the words "at a specific moment in time flipped the switch"?

Ever get the feeling you are teaching kindergarten here?