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Very funny. You guys are predictable, trying to assign the present to the past is your motis operendi. The evaporating comes in when the salt is on the surface. The word mist might be throwing you, if you think of it in modern terms.Opethian said:lol! Ever heard of the terms solution/precipitation? And about evaporite deposits? Salty mists are IMPOSSIBLE!!!
Yes, water, and salt could have come up.
There are dwarves now, probably then as well. Dragons we see in Job, in the deep, some feel, like huge sort of dino sea serpents. China is big on that sort of thing. As for elves, they supposedly lived forever, and seem similar to some of the old gods of maybe the Greeks or Romans. Spirits, in other words, which we know there are, both good and bad, so there could be some grain of truth in some of those stories of spirits, and their exploits. That leaves Sauron and Frodo. I have met a wizard, so they do exist, the one named in the story was pure fiction, all you have to do is research the author, and his own words on the book, but again, loosely based on the real world, as there is the occult. Frodo, well, again, fiction. Some villigers in England may have struck the author as short, which right there means it is based on far far more reality than Granny, or the creator speck, which is pure PO fantasizing.Opethian said:...about 2000 years ago, the world was inhabited by elves, dwarves, dragons, and Sauron and Frodo!
Dad, if you have arguments as to why this would be impossible, please state them. I'll be glad to refute them .....
Yes, on the surface we now have the process happening here, so? What has this got to do with transporting it up from deep below the earth?Opethian said:NO! Water can come up, but salt CAN'T. When water evaporates in the way you describe it, the salt precipitates on the surface,
Guess you didn't read, or comprehend the last post! The 'mist' was subteranean waters coming up, not some surface thing.The mist you describe would not hold any real amounts of dissolved ions
Go ahead, give yourself all the rope you need here. Ha.If you had a basic knowledge of chemistry/geology, you would have known this. Yet, you're still the same idiot without a clue,
Hey, so far you have not even exhibited reading comprehension skills, you should talk!?living in a fantasy world where there are no facts, no laws, no nothing except the ridiculous ideas that sprout from your underdeveloped mind.
The author is a puppet of the deity that created middle earth, making it seem as if his book is fiction. It takes FAITH to understand that my God once created Middle Earth. Sauron was not just fiction, he was the physical manifestation of all evil in this merged spiritual/physical world. Frodo was the son of the deity, who placed a part of himself in Bilbo, who would be his physical manifestation in the world, and would continue himself in a younger form as Frodo. All these events took place only 200 years ago! Frodo reproduced very very well and all his offspring carefull excavated the entire outer crust of the earth to make it appear as it appears today. They used magic to create fossils etc... they could basically do anything they want because of this merged spiritual/physical world. The whole process was led by the mighty Gandalf, who made sure no errors were made in this falsification, and that is how we are all misled today. They even made false settlements and literature, creating all history till 1806. They set a magic time-bomb to make a civilization pop out at 1806 that had a memory set as Frodo and Gandalf had made history appear. Only one fact remains today, that leads to the way the earth was 200 years ago: A half-molten ring in a volcano deep under the ocean, the only thing they did not change in the earth.There are dwarves now, probably then as well. Dragons we see in Job, in the deep, some feel, like huge sort of dino sea serpents. China is big on that sort of thing. As for elves, they supposedly lived forever, and seem similar to some of the old gods of maybe the Greeks or Romans. Spirits, in other words, which we know there are, both good and bad, so there could be some grain of truth in some of those stories of spirits, and their exploits. That leaves Sauron and Frodo. I have met a wizard, so they do exist, the one named in the story was pure fiction, all you have to do is research the author, and his own words on the book, but again, loosely based on the real world, as there is the occult. Frodo, well, again, fiction. Some villigers in England may have struck the author as short, which right there means it is based on far far more reality than Granny, or the creator speck, which is pure PO fantasizing.
That's what you need to defend, but can't so try to switch fables.
No, I said the pre split world rates were fantastic, compared to the presnt ones! -AS in this definition "3 Wonderful or superb; remarkable"Frumious Bandersnatch said:So you admit it's a fantasy.
Why try to twist meanings, guess you have stooped to desperate tactics in your repeated defeats here.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fantastic
Already explained in another post. The 'mist' refered to subteranean water coming up from deep in the earth. Water transport through the nice looser, new planet soil of the merged world of the time.A salty mist. Another fantasy. So you admit the world you describe was nuts. Thanks.
All I admit is your fantasy world is nuts, and never existed.I don't see any further need for discussion for someone who admits that the fantasy world he describes is nuts.
Yes, on the surface we now have the process happening here, so? What has this got to do with transporting it up from deep below the earth?
Guess you didn't read, or comprehend the last post! The 'mist' was subteranean waters coming up, not some surface thing.
Go ahead, give yourself all the rope you need here. Ha.
Hey, so far you have not even exhibited reading comprehension skills, you should talk!?
Does the "m" here mean meters or miles?Opethian said:It doesn't matter, on the surface, 100 m down in the earth, the salt precipitates...
Well, thank you!Subterranean waters CAN bring salt from the deep, but this rarely happens.
Get a grip here, the water coming up was called a mist, but is best translated as I have outlined.Mist is a gaseous form of water and can't bring any salt up. Learn to read what you write yourself...
Wow! Not just wrong, in disagreeing with the standard PO past beliefs, but now, of no use to this world! Calm down, winning isn't everything, sounds like learning to lose, (a lot) is good for you.The only one who needs rope is you, to hang yourself, since you're of no use to this world except a few laughs at your ridiculous fantasies.
Good, glad you are a whiz. Thank goodness you are not like some others, I guess. Guess it's hard to be humble when you're perfect in every way?I have excellent comprehension skills, unlike others, who can't even comprehend themselves...
The author was a christian. No need for speculation.Opethian said:The author is a puppet of the deity that created middle earth, making it seem as if his book is fiction. It takes FAITH to understand that my God once created Middle Earth.
What is a merged physical world?Sauron was not just fiction, he was the physical manifestation of all evil in this merged spiritual/physical world.
Frodo was the son of the deity, who placed a part of himself in Bilbo, who would be his physical manifestation in the world, and would continue himself in a younger form as Frodo. All these events took place only 200 years ago!
Frodo reproduced very very well and all his offspring carefull excavated the entire outer crust of the earth to make it appear as it appears today.
Could they pop the whole universe in and out of a teensy speck, and produce all life on earth from one lifeform appearing magic act?They used magic to create fossils etc... they could basically do anything they want because of this merged spiritual/physical world.
OK, Rome, Egypt, Greece, ancient Undia, & China, Napoleon, etc, all out the window. OK.The whole process was led by the mighty Gandalf, who made sure no errors were made in this falsification, and that is how we are all misled today. They even made false settlements and literature, creating all history till 1806.
Never really melted all the way when they threw in in, eh, tough break.They set a magic time-bomb to make a civilization pop out at 1806 that had a memory set as Frodo and Gandalf had made history appear. Only one fact remains today, that leads to the way the earth was 200 years ago: A half-molten ring in a volcano deep under the ocean, the only thing they did not change in the earth.
Does the "m" here mean meters or miles?
Temperature, for example deep under the earth is open to speculation that it may not have been near as warm then.
Taking away a negative charge produces the same element with a different charge...Atomic level changes, that could produce mixes impossible, and even explosive in today's world. Just ading or taking away an electron here, or a negative charge there, or etc can have tremendous implications. "
Remember, there was, I suggest no radioactive decay even back then. Then, there is the factor much of the salt may have come up when the fountains of the deep opened as well.
Yes, how the hell does it help your case that somewhere lightyears away this is the case? It's not the case on earth, and even if it was, it still wouldn't help your case!!!This doesn't even touch on the rings of the earth, or canopy, or whatever it may have been above us at the time! What chemicals may it have contained?
"While Saturn's rings are almost exclusively composed of water ice, new findings show the Cassini Division contains relatively more "dirt" than ice.
[sarcasm]Get a grip here, the water coming up was called a mist, but is best translated as I have outlined.
[sarcasm]Wow! Not just wrong, in disagreeing with the standard PO past beliefs, but now, of no use to this world! Calm down, winning isn't everything, sounds like learning to lose, (a lot) is good for you.
Good, glad you are a whiz. Thank goodness you are not like some others, I guess. Guess it's hard to be humble when you're perfect in every way?
The author was a christian. No need for speculation.
What is a merged physical world?
So, I guess your latest fantasy happened in 1806! Closr to the time of the Lewis and Clark expedition. Guess the records missed your dreamland.
Hard work indeed, for just two hundred years, especially doing it undetected!
Could they pop the whole universe in and out of a teensy speck, and produce all life on earth from one lifeform appearing magic act?
Yes they were very good at making up fables!OK, Rome, Egypt, Greece, ancient Undia, & China, Napoleon, etc, all out the window. OK.
Never really melted all the way when they threw in in, eh, tough break.
No accident that old agers live in their created fantasies. The tragedy is that they teach the innocent young people their stories and fables, falsely called science, as if it were true. That is no joke, and bullyism and abuse at it's very worst.
dad said:The angel was there to keep man from getting back in, not for keeping animals out.
dad said:Can we be certain of this, just because none were mentioned till Cain and Able? I think the record is of Adam and Eve's offspring, and even there, of the males, in particular. What about females? Who says they may not have had 'litters' full -before and after?
dad said:Then, here is something else to think about. If Eve had daughters, who had little boys, either in or out of the garden (yes, like rabbits, hard to say who fathered what, except for the official record of the males) -they wouldn't be in the record there, just Adam's boys, and their eldest boy after that, on down the line. There are millions of sexy loopholes to be fruitful and multiply with there, you could drive a Mac truck through them!
dad said:If the garden was closed, and animals were made for man, what would they do in that ghost town?
dad said:One of the creatures in Eden, God told this.
" Gen 2:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. "
Doesn't sound like the serpent was to stay in the garden by itself, really, does it? How could there be bruising, and enmity, etc, unless they were together?
Also, if it is true that all creatures (save trilobites, and some made for the earth at large) were in Eden, as this seems to indicate ..
"Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. 20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field;"
Not so hard to do if they were all right there nearby! By the power of deduction, we can see that man needed his creatures, so they must have come out as well. This is evidenced by how we see there were sheep, etc out of the garden, as you pointed out, whebn they were out of the garden. (God also made them a fur coat, Greenpeace, eat your heart out!)
I mean, usually, when we name animals in our yard, it is because we own them, and they are like our pets, or our animals. WE are the masters of the planet, remember. Gen 1:26 "..let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. "
If you had dominion over the animals, and maybe even could talk to them, would you not tell them to follow you as you moved? They gave the milk, coats, wool, cheese, plowed the earth, etc. They were more or less the currency of the time, or the riches man had.
dad said:PS Someone raised the question a while ago if we know when Cain and Able did their thing, I said I thought we did not know. Apparently, this bible commentary says we do know!
", let it be observed that the death of Abel took place in the one hundred and twenty-eighth or one hundred and twenty-ninth year of the world. Now, "supposing Adam and Eve to have had no other sons than Cain and Abel
dad said:PPS What better way of God driving Adam out of the garden after the fall, then the animals, who were now hostile!? Like living in a zoo with no cages, and snakes that are out to get you!
Opethian said:The earth was WARMER in the past! Get your facts right. The energy released by nuclear radiation from the elements dropping to lower energy levels gets lower as the cycle gets further down the row of elements.
Welcome to Dad world, check your laws of physics at the door.Opethian said:Your suggestions are impossible
Opethian said:[sarcasm]
Yes obviously you know best how to translate everything, since you have such a good grip on reality and possess such an amazing interpreting power...
[/sarcasm]
Opethian said:"Some others" was a hint in your direction. If being smarter than you was a criterium to be a whiz, everyone on this planet except you would be a whiz...
"Opethian said:How do you know? Did you ever meet the author? How do you know the sources where you got this information are not part of the lie?
What Tolkien did was help Lewis see how the two sides, reason and imagination, could be integrated. During the two men's night conversation on the Addison Walk in the grounds of Magdalen College, Tolkien showed Lewis how the two sides could be reconciled in the Gospel narratives. The Gospels had all the qualities of great human storytelling. But they portrayed a true event—God the storyteller entered his own story, in the flesh, and brought a joyous conclusion from a tragic situation. Suddenly Lewis could see that the nourishment he had always received from great myths and fantasy stories was a taste of that greatest, truest story—of the life, death, and resurrection of Christ.
So Tolkien brought the imagination right into the center of Lewis's life. And then, through a gradual process, with the example of Tolkien's Silmarillion tales and Lord of the Rings before him, Lewis learned how to communicate Christian faith in imaginative writing. The results were Narnia, the space trilogy, The Great Divorce, and so forth."
This is where their third shared commitment came into play—this sense of wholeness was a Christian approach, distant from the neo-pagan mysticism of some romantics, the "Pan worship" of the early twentieth century. Indeed, Tolkien worried increasingly towards the end of his life that people were missing the Christian balance of his work, and were taking it almost as the basis of a new paganism. You could argue in fact that one reason Tolkien didn't finish the Silmarillion was his concern to make his imaginative creations consonant with Christianity. Obviously not wanting to make them into allegory or preachment, he was concerned his literary insights be clearly consistent with Christianity.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/134/52.0.html
So what, you can say birds came from dinos, or all life from Granny, it is just words.As I said, it was made to appear like this. I explained it further down.
You could relate there.Yes they were very good at making up fables!
Hate to disillusion you, but you might want to ask your wife about the topic, if you have one.The irony, the hypocrisy, too funny...
Ok I'm pretty convinced you're just faking it now.
Have you ever seen a highway that was rerouted, and grew over in several years? Imagine then, with the growth rates. A garden grows over if not tended, and abandoned.duordi said:True but you missed the point.
How do you get into the garden to destroy it?
The first male Eve had, perhaps. But there may have been thousands of people around, via Eves unmentioned daughters, and their male children, who grew up! Looking at the wording there, it would fit, just think of someone who never had a boy before, like her daughters. 'Wow, finally, thank God, ' I have gotten a man from the LORD'4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bore Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
It sure sounds like this is her first, just by how she named him.
Well, we don't know how long it was they were in the garden, that falls in the realm of guesswork.I would guess you are having a problem with the idea that Adam and Eve with a perfect upbringing, perfect health etc. would still choose to rebel so quickly.
If this is the case then you have an incorrect understanding of the nature of mankind. We are not good at our innermost being but evil.
An overview of a geneology from the first man, and his sons, and their sons, on down the line. This does not mean a whole lot of hanky panky was not going on all around, and many many people obeyed the command to be fruitful, and have lots of babies.Your statement above is the best indication that Cain was the first.
If you assume Cain was not the first the text can no longer be taken as an overview or accurate account of what happened.
The idea that brothers and sisters should not intermarry is based on a genetic problem caused when genes are flawed.
You seem to assume a past that was the same as now, where genes were damaged a lot. They were good pretty well as long as the merged world was here! Remember, Noah was in the same boat!!The genes are in good shape at this time and so there is no problem with intermarrying.
But so was Simon Peter talking to Jesus one time, when Jesus said something like 'Satan, get behind me'! In other words spirits enter into physical beings, and can talk through them. The Serpent was some kind of creature there.You have a misunderstanding about who and what the serpent is.
3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.
The serpent was not a beast of the field.
If the serpent was a beast of the field the text would be "serpent was more subtle then any other beast of the field".
The serpent was Satan as defined in other Bible texts.
Well, maybe the conflict first took the form of the now on it's belly, hyper evoluted serpent, along with the rest of the now wild Eden animals chasing them out of the garden? A seperation after the fall, between the relationship man had with animals happened. They now dreaded us.The prophecy of a conflict between the women’s seed and the serpent’s seed concerned the Christ and Satan’s followers.
It doesn't say how, but we know that animals did come out, because we had sheep, etc. Also, Eden is long gone, but we have animals all over. Elementary, Watson, they must have left Eden, and spead out as well.Regarding the animals leaving with Adam. It does not say the God drove the Man and the animals out. Only that He drove the man out.
No, 2 + 2 = 4 Animals were out of Eden, they must have come out.To get more then this you have to add something to the text that is not there.
But we know he had children before this, so it's a moot point! Cain and Able were before this Seth, for example. We have a brain for a reason.Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth: 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:.
More room to run, and fight, and cultivate, and besides, God may have inspired the animals to drive us out of the garden. Once out, they would go about their business.How would it be any better outside the garden?
The guards were posted, this couldn't happen.Besides man would venture into the garden at least long enough to get some fruit from the tree of life.
Not that many here who actually believe the stuff.I have enjoyed our discussion.
It isn’t often I find someone here who puts some thought into their responses.
Duane
Phred said:Jennifer Aniston
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