Difficult talking with theists!!

[Jnwaco]

If I didn't know better, I'd think you were saying that any human quality is imperfect (according to God), and thereby all imperfect attributions are equally interchangable.

Yes, we all sin. But not all human imperfections are sinful. Freckles, for example, or other physical traits would not be. Being a slower learner than others would not be, etc. It's matters of the heart that spawn the imperfections God cares about.

So you could say that my conscientiousness is a sin against God and that by default makes me 'God's enemy'??!

That's not quite how I would put it. Ultimately the rejection of God, according to Christians, will be dealt with by God. I don't think that necessarily makes you our enemy. Even if it did, we're also charged with "loving our enemies".

Utter nonsense my friend. Passive resistence is not the same as siding with the enemy. It's just a position (for me) of whether I agree/believe, or not. Do you ever say "I choose to love this person because I want to", only to find that it's more of a chore than you actually feeling that love you thought you could express? I can't just choose to believe in something in order to be "good" (according to God, whom I Don't Believe In). From my perspective, I'm not angering "God" because his rules are like human inventions to me.

What would you expect His rules to be like? They seem pretty reasonable to me, though tough in practice. Love your neighbor as yourself. Love your enemies. From your perspective you might not be angering God, just as a child might not think his actions should anger his parents. God's perspective is a bit different, according to the Bible. But a lot of people confuse God's relationship with sinners and Christians' relationships with sinners. God's the judge and jury, not us, but we do sin, get frustrated like anyone else sometimes, make poor judgment, etc.

 

[Christ's_Warrior]

Your certainty has been misplaced, my father is a born again christian, and I myself went to a christian school in primary years and was during that time a christian myself. My difficulty has been in my recent "family" reunion whereby I come to see "my dad". I no longer have a father - I wish I'd never gone to visit or learned anything on the flaws of Christianity - yet here we are!

Um, that isn't a good thing is it, your dad should treat you the same ni matter what your beliefs, that would be really hard to accept.

I like easy going, wish it were universal quality too, good one buddy, I reckon there'll be no issues between us then. Too easy

Mate, it's always good to find a new freind.

That's awesome too. Sometimes I suppose there have been times when I wish conversation could have completely bypassed religion and haven't had my desires respected through biggotry, etc. That's life, when it's ongoing, it's what they call chronic. I hate certain individuals now because of the actions of an extreeme minority. I now need to develop a sense of understanding and acceptance for those who don't deserve the negative emotions which are inspired by above mentioned.

Yeh i know how you feel, their are "Christians" who try to take the high moral ground and are at complete opposites of Jesus' teaching.

My own brothers are by no means committed (to say the least) and I talk to them about God only if they ask a question because i know it will annoy them if i bash their ears all day long.

I am doing my uttmost to better myself for the better of the general Christian community. I am beyond "redemption", but at least I can learn to understand a different community as individuals and learn to treat Christians for their individual differences.

Don't better yourself for them, better yourself for yourself. Redemption is there for the taking bro.

I completely relate to this statement because I am hypocritical myself. I have come to understand that a person doesn't adhere to their beliefs in all situations, people vary their responses to any situation they're confronted. I don't like how some refuse to address this, even during the "regression" simultaneously rationalising: "this is correct because . . .".

Well we are all hypocritical in one way or another, for e.g. My football team only loses when they have an off day, but all other football teams lose cause their crap. See how i apply one way of thinking to something I hold dear and another way to everything else.

 

[ephraimanesti]

What if I were? How can you say with all certainty that I could possibly be converted? Because afterall, isn't a fact that the Christian faith hold that no person makes it into heaven without accepting the "Lord Jesus" died for my sins?!

MY DEAR BROTHER,

If you were indeed "beyond redemption" as you propose, that would make God a liar--an impossibility.

As Scripture puts it in 2 Peter 3:9 (MSG):
"God isn't late with his promise as some measure lateness. He is restraining himself on account of you, holding back the End because he doesn't want anyone lost. He's giving everyone space and time to change."

I don't see nor hear his love to any compass point I turn. I have the heresay of Christians who would wish me to associate "His" love, etc with any good fortune I happen to have, that is it though.

i firmly believe, from my own experiences and those of many others i have talked to, that the reason you "don't see nor hear his love" is mainly because you didn't "see nor hear" your biological father's love as a child. This is a fairly well accepted psychological phenomenon which i first ran across while reading either Rollo May's LOVE AND WILL or Gerald May's ADDICTION AND GRACE. (i always get these two psychologists mixed up.) Anyway, this idea made a marked impression on me--a HUGH aha moment, as it were--because it explained much of what was going on in my life at the time vis-a-vis my seeking to accept my acceptance by God--acceptance i had never felt from my biological father. Anyway, just a thought to perhaps ponder for a second or two.

I am beyond redemption, I wish I were nieve enough to succumb to the pipe dream, but unfortunately my brain has been pounded with the truth for too long. I can't switch that off you know. Like your stubborness for faith, my stubborness is innate too.

Well, there is a not so small difference between our stubbornnesses--mine is NOT innate but is the result of my personal experiences with the reality of God and His unbelievable Love for us. These experiences have brought me to a place where it is impossible for me to even minimally conceal, deny, gainsay, or negotiate my experiential knowledge of God's existence and His over-arching desire for our good and happiness.

On the other hand, your "innate stubbornness", as you call it, is the result of "your brain having been pounded" with untruths and false conclusions for so long that you have come to accept them as being true when, in reality, they are 180 degrees therefrom. You have been hurt--the child still lives within--and, in order to avoid future pain and disappointment, you have built a wall of half-truths and falsehoods around your heart in an attempt at self-protection. The problem is that in walling out the pain and disappointment you have, at the same time, walled out its healing remedy--Abba's Love.

I have little knowledge of this love outside the societal implications of this concept, I wish there were some sign to suggest something beyone human intervention, however, I know better than to think I have a soul, etc. I know what happens after I die.

Dear one--YOU WILL NEVER EVER BE ABLE TO SEE SOMETHING YOU DENY EVEN EXISTS! What you have been deprived of thus far in your life nevertheless does exist. THE FLAWS OF YOUR BIO-FATHER ARE NOT SHARED BY YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kind regards to you, these are my personal views.

Thank you for sharing them and allowing me to do likewise.

MAY YOU BE HEALED, BLESSED, AND GRANTED PEACE!

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[undoing]

Yes, we all sin. But not all human imperfections are sinful. Freckles, for example, or other physical traits would not be. Being a slower learner than others would not be, etc. It's matters of the heart that spawn the imperfections God cares about.

Neither should nonconformity be a sin. I don't conform with criminal expectations, I don't conform to antichrist ideals, gang ideologies, or Christian belief. Frankly, Christianity has propogated wars, burned innocent people out of mass hysteria, instated bs rules (albeit indirectly), etc, etc. I can claim it is you who are guilty of non conformity with God's desires, and I don't even live by the book supposedly reflecting his "truth".

That's not quite how I would put it. Ultimately the rejection of God, according to Christians, will be dealt with by God. I don't think that necessarily makes you our enemy. Even if it did, we're also charged with "loving our enemies".

So that "love", to you, is superficial and a logical contradiction? If you love your enemy then he can't be your enemy, can he?

What would you expect His rules to be like? They seem pretty reasonable to me, though tough in practice. Love your neighbor as yourself. Love your enemies. From your perspective you might not be angering God, just as a child might not think his actions should anger his parents. God's perspective is a bit different, according to the Bible. But a lot of people confuse God's relationship with sinners and Christians' relationships with sinners. God's the judge and jury, not us, but we do sin, get frustrated like anyone else sometimes, make poor judgment, etc.

I'm not a child though, I know how to use my own brain and that my decisions will have consequences (good, or bad ones) which will reflect my judgement, rationality, reasoning, kindness, etc, etc, etc.

Um, that isn't a good thing is it, your dad should treat you the same ni matter what your beliefs, that would be really hard to accept.

It is extreemely difficult to accept. I also struggle with coming to terms of his attempt at killing me on the road by sitting in the dark without his brake lights on until I was right on him. I was on a bike, he called me pansy for complaining about my dislocated hip needing a dr. etc; he himself visited the dr's about an elbow complaint but refused to get me to the dr's while I was dependent on him for a lift. And this is only one of the problems I have to accept, somehow . . . I have disowned him as my family, I'm interesting in making that severance legal too, I just live some distance from where he is and I'm not sure how the legal system works in this respect (any reasonable advice will be much appreciated anyone); also, I hadn't seen him for around a decade before our brief get-together/s, so it isn't as though our lives are interconnected meaning I can continue to live normally without having to see him again, etc.

Mate, it's always good to find a new freind.

So true, I could use more friends too.

Yeh i know how you feel, their are "Christians" who try to take the high moral ground and are at complete opposites of Jesus' teaching.

My own brothers are by no means committed (to say the least) and I talk to them about God only if they ask a question because i know it will annoy them if i bash their ears all day long.



Don't better yourself for them, better yourself for yourself. Redemption is there for the taking bro.



Well we are all hypocritical in one way or another, for e.g. My football team only loses when they have an off day, but all other football teams lose cause their crap. See how i apply one way of thinking to something I hold dear and another way to everything else.

I'd have to agree that any rule will be broken under certain circumstances, that nobody's perfect, subsequently that no human invention is perfect, and to me that includes the doctrine of Christianity, the legal system which constantly subject to revision, etc.

MY DEAR BROTHER,

If you were indeed "beyond redemption" as you propose, that would make God a liar--an impossibility.

I don't believe that there is a God, but if there were one then I find it highly unlikely for you to know him any better than anyone else. Holding a widely published reprint of scriptural inscription from centuries ago doesn't suggest that a) you know what God says, regardless of whether it's a lie or not b) that disproving your version of God, as he is written in the bible has any bearing on whether God is possible or not.

As Scripture puts it in 2 Peter 3:9 (MSG):
"God isn't late with his promise as some measure lateness. He is restraining himself on account of you, holding back the End because he doesn't want anyone lost. He's giving everyone space and time to change."


i firmly believe, from my own experiences and those of many others i have talked to, that the reason you "don't see nor hear his love" is mainly because you didn't "see nor hear" your biological father's love as a child. This is a fairly well accepted psychological phenomenon which i first ran across while reading either Rollo May's LOVE AND WILL or Gerald May's ADDICTION AND GRACE. (i always get these two psychologists mixed up.) Anyway, this idea made a marked impression on me--a HUGH aha moment, as it were--because it explained much of what was going on in my life at the time vis-a-vis my seeking to accept my acceptance by God--acceptance i had never felt from my biological father. Anyway, just a thought to perhaps ponder for a second or two.

In some very big ways I think God is synonymous with actual parents, the virgin mary is a way of respecting certain ideologies of purity and innocence of ladies in olden times; and the rules of the parents being authority, just as the need to instill a sense of authority in youth is important, so is the instilling of fear, social rejection, etc, etc.

Well, there is a not so small difference between our stubbornnesses--mine is NOT innate but is the result of my personal experiences with the reality of God and His unbelievable Love for us. These experiences have brought me to a place where it is impossible for me to even minimally conceal, deny, gainsay, or negotiate my experiential knowledge of God's existence and His over-arching desire for our good and happiness.

The only certainty I've been able to rely on lately is my knowledge that changing my life circumstances is up to me and that changing my outlook isn't always effective in dealing with issues and problems.

On the other hand, your "innate stubbornness", as you call it, is the result of "your brain having been pounded" with untruths and false conclusions for so long that you have come to accept them as being true when, in reality, they are 180 degrees therefrom. You have been hurt--the child still lives within--and, in order to avoid future pain and disappointment, you have built a wall of half-truths and falsehoods around your heart in an attempt at self-protection. The problem is that in walling out the pain and disappointment you have, at the same time, walled out its healing remedy--Abba's Love.

Not true to say untruths, untruth would be contrary to what actually happens. It is 'un' by which is the removal of, or from such thing. So I would find an untruth immediately when I say something like "thinking everything's good and being optimistic will change my life to exactly how I want it to be. See how my thinking something doesn't effect the change in reality, so therefore it is an untruth to claim it as true when it indeed is ineffectual at effecting the result of realistic change (notice how the logical explanation can continue endlessly on this point because it's fallaciousness cannot be said correctly without becoming untrue in itself).

Dear one--YOU WILL NEVER EVER BE ABLE TO SEE SOMETHING YOU DENY EVEN EXISTS! What you have been deprived of thus far in your life nevertheless does exist. THE FLAWS OF YOUR BIO-FATHER ARE NOT SHARED BY YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe in something until I know it is there though, catch 22, if God wanted me to believe he would understand this and wouldn't rely on me to configure my outlook to accomodate his understanding of how I would think . . . . sigh . . .

Thank you for sharing them and allowing me to do likewise.

MAY YOU BE HEALED, BLESSED, AND GRANTED PEACE!

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

Thankyou very much for your kind words, all the best Ephraim.

 

[ephraimanesti]

I can't believe in something until I know it is there though, catch 22, if God wanted me to believe he would understand this and wouldn't rely on me to configure my outlook to accomodate his understanding of how I would think . . . . sigh . . ..

MY DEAR BROTHER,

"Catch 22" huh? indeed!

Well, uh . . . . how about those New Orleans Saints . . . .?

PEACE TO YA!
ephraim

 

[Christ's_Warrior]

It is extreemely difficult to accept. I also struggle with coming to terms of his attempt at killing me on the road by sitting in the dark without his brake lights on until I was right on him. I was on a bike, he called me pansy for complaining about my dislocated hip needing a dr. etc; he himself visited the dr's about an elbow complaint but refused to get me to the dr's while I was dependent on him for a lift. And this is only one of the problems I have to accept, somehow . . . I have disowned him as my family, I'm interesting in making that severance legal too, I just live some distance from where he is and I'm not sure how the legal system works in this respect (any reasonable advice will be much appreciated anyone); also, I hadn't seen him for around a decade before our brief get-together/s, so it isn't as though our lives are interconnected meaning I can continue to live normally without having to see him again, etc.

Mate, I don't even know what to say, sounds like your old man has some issues of his own.

So true, I could use more friends too.

Well you got one more here mate. PM me if you ever wanna chat

I'd have to agree that any rule will be broken under certain circumstances, that nobody's perfect, subsequently that no human invention is perfect, and to me that includes the doctrine of Christianity, the legal system which constantly subject to revision, etc.

I would disagree with you in regards to Christianity being a human invention, i would agree however that us humans have an inclination to pervert anything that is pure.

 

[undoing]

Mate, I don't even know what to say, sounds like your old man has some issues of his own.

Yeah, he was battling depression when I seen him last. This wouldn't be an issue for me as I have a lot of understanding on mental illness. I keep replaying in my mind what happened and what must have made such acts acceptable to B.A.C., all I can summise is that he believed he was fighting satan, or something stupid like that.

Well you got one more here mate. PM me if you ever wanna chat

Cool, just send a request to me.

I would disagree with you in regards to Christianity being a human invention, i would agree however that us humans have an inclination to pervert anything that is pure.

I don't usually consider absolutes as viable examples; however, if something were absolutely pure there would be no inherent impurity which would make possible any reflexive turbulance, negation, tautology, etc. It is limited because it is derived by human nature.

 

[undoing]

MY DEAR BROTHER,

"Catch 22" huh? indeed!

Well, uh . . . . how about those New Orleans Saints . . . .?

PEACE TO YA!
ephraim

I can't justify the fabrication of the very basis which will support the hypothesis of existence. It's just not intelligent to do so.

 

[Christ's_Warrior]

Yeah, he was battling depression when I seen him last. This wouldn't be an issue for me as I have a lot of understanding on mental illness. I keep replaying in my mind what happened and what must have made such acts acceptable to B.A.C., all I can summise is that he believed he was fighting satan, or something stupid like that.

Well if he has a mental illness then maybe he needs your help

I don't usually consider absolutes as viable examples; however, if something were absolutely pure there would be no inherent impurity which would make possible any reflexive turbulance, negation, tautology, etc. It is limited because it is derived by human nature.

Dude, english, please.

 

[Christ's_Warrior]

I don't usually consider absolutes as viable examples; however, if something were absolutely pure there would be no inherent impurity which would make possible any reflexive turbulance, negation, tautology, etc. It is limited because it is derived by human nature.

I believe I now understand this comment, you are basically stating that if something is absolutely pure then people would not reject it and there would be no issues that arise with it?

Have I managed to crack your philosophical code?

Some people amaze me with their command of the English language! Me thinks me went to the wrong school!

 

[firefighter1234]

Ok, so I'm less than inspired by the operation of this site. Firstly the ease of offense making. ie. no debate (disagreement, etc, etc); no posting personal comments, however nice, where those comments show a potentially unwanted perspective of that person to them.
What is it about getting along with christians that is so difficult?
I'm annoyed by the constant need for theists to talk about god. Not because I find "God" offensive, but because for all my patience and tireless efforts of respectful responding, and listening efforts seem to be for nothing once that person realises that I'm not convertable (to them), that my interest is in them as a person (and them where they aren't talking about "God", "Jesus", etc).
Does anyone know where another christian forum is where genuine discussion takes place that is not focussed on atheism as some sort of "Satanic movement", etc?

Theists are extreemly trying, but I'm trying to learn how to deal with them, I need to learn more tollerance for their belief system. How do you tolerate, endure, and maintain relationships where "God" is constantly 'offered' for rationality?!

You are not the only one who is not impressed with this site....

I am in trouble right now for complaining about the manner of topics found in "Outreach, Non-Christian Religions". It has been made clear to me that the authorities of this site approve of my religion being mocked, demeaned and insulted. So be it.

Watch for this post to be removed by the mods.

Far too many "Christians" are selling God with threats of punishment. Listen to all the statements which go 'round in circles never changing. I am convinced that the average Christian is numb from the neck up and has no real idea of God beyond the need to keep on "witnessing" which is drummed into them day and night.

Live a life of humility, charity, good will to others and harmlessness. Most of all never rant on to others about what they should believe. Do this and a place in Heaven will be yours. Religions are supposed to be this simple but the hand of man has build them all into self edifying monsters with insatiable appetites.

My own Holy Book, the Quran, plainly states that "there is no compulsion in religion". Here is God telling us that we need not complicate our relationship with Him.

Yes try out the sub-section under "Faith Groups", Whosoever Will, Come, Liberal (or something like that). None of us there will lecture you about God.

Peace to you brother,

Be free to find God your own way.... be fearless.

JYJ

 

[Christ's_Warrior]

Far too many "Christians" are selling God with threats of punishment. Listen to all the statements which go 'round in circles never changing. I am convinced that the average Christian is numb from the neck up and has no real idea of God beyond the need to keep on "witnessing" which is drummed into them day and night.

Define the average Christian and then we can talk.

Live a life of humility, charity, good will to others and harmlessness. Most of all never rant on to others about what they should believe. Do this and a place in Heaven will be yours. Religions are supposed to be this simple but the hand of man has build them all into self edifying monsters with insatiable appetites.

I agree with you here my brother, this is what Christianity is about however-

"I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive" romans 16, 17-18

Deceit must come as it is prophesied, there are many false teaching within Christianity and this is true from its beginning.

My own Holy Book, the Quran, plainly states that "there is no compulsion in religion". Here is God telling us that we need not complicate our relationship with Him.

"Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." Matt 11:30

 

[undoing]

I believe I now understand this comment, you are basically stating that if something is absolutely pure then people would not reject it and there would be no issues that arise with it?

Mostly, but I'm also saying that within itself there should not be even the tiniest trace of inconsistency since being competely pure, it would all be of a single and unified substance.

Some people amaze me with their command of the English language! Me thinks me went to the wrong school!

I was hardly ever at school when I was able to attend. This compliment means more to me than I'm really able to express. Thankyou CW!

You are not the only one who is not impressed with this site....

I am in trouble right now for complaining about the manner of topics found in "Outreach, Non-Christian Religions". It has been made clear to me that the authorities of this site approve of my religion being mocked, demeaned and insulted. So be it.

Watch for this post to be removed by the mods.

Yeah, a couple of mine were removed with silly reasons. In one, my post was removed because I mention personal bias effecting opinion. Another one because apparently it was contriversial to ask from an atheistic point of view.

Far too many "Christians" are selling God with threats of punishment. Listen to all the statements which go 'round in circles never changing. I am convinced that the average Christian is numb from the neck up and has no real idea of God beyond the need to keep on "witnessing" which is drummed into them day and night.

Live a life of humility, charity, good will to others and harmlessness. Most of all never rant on to others about what they should believe. Do this and a place in Heaven will be yours. Religions are supposed to be this simple but the hand of man has build them all into self edifying monsters with insatiable appetites.

My own Holy Book, the Quran, plainly states that "there is no compulsion in religion". Here is God telling us that we need not complicate our relationship with Him.

Would you say that the Quran/Muslim religion has been built by the hand of wise men?
I love the point of view you've taken that a man who's good, true in heart, and generous will make it into heaven. I've always encountered bitter argument with the question of whether a non believer who behaves in life in such a way that's in accordance with god's rules would make it into heaven. Many Christians throw something from the 'New Testament' at me about '... the way the truth and the light, etc'.

Yes try out the sub-section under "Faith Groups", Whosoever Will, Come, Liberal (or something like that). None of us there will lecture you about God.

Peace to you brother,

Be free to find God your own way.... be fearless.

JYJ

Thanks James, peace.

Define the average Christian and then we can talk.

1. Believes in: Jesus and that the 'New Testament' is all that's important for people to follow (this extends everything being peddled in the 'N.T.'
2. That Jesus is God, the Lord and also the Son of the Father, etc, etc
3. That nonbelief is a form of rebelion and has at its heart, satan's efforts to destroy human souls (part of the New testament; we should just open the new testament here).

"I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive" romans 16, 17-18

Deceit must come as it is prophesied, there are many false teaching within Christianity and this is true from its beginning.

Are you saying that false teachings are present in the bible?
Where does growth, learning and development come from but through adversity, struggle and opposition?
It's nessessary to have some argument to better understand.

"Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." Matt 11:30

So Matthew says that he's a good friend who is wise and generous.

 

[Christ's_Warrior]

Mostly, but I'm also saying that within itself there should not be even the tiniest trace of inconsistency since being competely pure, it would all be of a single and unified substance.

I agree, but in regards to Jesus he remains pure and it's us human beings that take his teachings and mcmuddle them.

I was hardly ever at school when I was able to attend. This compliment means more to me than I'm really able to express. Thankyou CW!

No probs bro!

 

[Christ's_Warrior]

1. Believes in: Jesus and that the 'New Testament' is all that's important for people to follow (this extends everything being peddled in the 'N.T.'
2. That Jesus is God, the Lord and also the Son of the Father, etc, etc
3. That nonbelief is a form of rebelion and has at its heart, satan's efforts to destroy human souls (part of the New testament; we should just open the new testament here)

That is the very basics of it

Are you saying that false teachings are present in the bible?

No, I can't see how you have come to that interpretation.

Where does growth, learning and development come from but through adversity, struggle and opposition?
It's nessessary to have some argument to better understand.

Growth, Learning and Development can come from adversity and struggle, for a Christian, trials and tribulations are an every day occurance and many people find their faith being strengthened in the face of adversity, many fall away.

You can say that this is God's way of quality control. (Many are called but few are chosen)

False doctrines do not fall into this category as the intentions are not to strengthen an individual but to achieve the polar opposite.

So Matthew says that he's a good friend who is wise and generous.

It runs much deeper than that dude.

 

[seashale76]

Ok, so I'm less than inspired by the operation of this site. Firstly the ease of offense making. ie. no debate (disagreement, etc, etc); no posting personal comments, however nice, where those comments show a potentially unwanted perspective of that person to them.
What is it about getting along with christians that is so difficult?
I'm annoyed by the constant need for theists to talk about god. Not because I find "God" offensive, but because for all my patience and tireless efforts of respectful responding, and listening efforts seem to be for nothing once that person realises that I'm not convertable (to them), that my interest is in them as a person (and them where they aren't talking about "God", "Jesus", etc).
Does anyone know where another christian forum is where genuine discussion takes place that is not focussed on atheism as some sort of "Satanic movement", etc?

Theists are extreemly trying, but I'm trying to learn how to deal with them, I need to learn more tollerance for their belief system. How do you tolerate, endure, and maintain relationships where "God" is constantly 'offered' for rationality?!

I'm attempting to understand you here. You are annoyed by the beliefs of theists and dislike the fact that there are theists who like to talk about their faith and God in particular, yet you come to a Christian forum to subject yourself to that which you find annoying? How is that particularly rational, if you don't mind my asking?

I can't figure out if, in your last paragraph, you are specifically speaking of the situation here on-line or in real life. If you are referring to real-life, I must ask where you're living exactly? I live in the so-called bible belt and rarely encounter people outside of church who ever talk about God.

You already tolerate people. Don't misuse the word tolerate like everyone else does these days by confusing it with acceptance. You don't have to accept our beliefs.

 

[undoing]

This take you have on me isnt accurate, I'll rephrase my outlook, what I hope to achieve on CF, and try to explain how theistic conversation tends to get to me.

I'm an agnostic atheist which basically means I'll believe in God when I have some sort of knowledge to measure, compare, etc. I admit the possibility of God, but because of the testability etc I find that possiblility is highly unlikely.

I decided to visit CF because of some very poor behaviour I received for my atheism. This was an unavoidable, it seems, as there was no room for "ordinary" conversation. I attempted to find a middle ground while maintaining my own point of view. I now have no father, so I hope I can learn from the past and find out whether it was specifically his denominational branch, and what extent I would have to have gone to in order for it all to have worked out, etc, etc.

I don't mind talking about my views on theism. It's when theism is all which can be spoken about that makes me wonder what's wrong with the picture. I come to feel everything can be so fixated on religion at times that all conversation between atheist - theist amounts to argument. And I don't feel that strongly about theism/atheism. But it does become heated where my views are taken as insult, rebelion, etc; such as a simple argument I had about the tide being controlled by the moon's gravity, where this shouldn't have even entered the conversation but it became a part through that person's unconvincing "persuasive" questioning.

It's my interest therefore to understand the "rules" of communicating with Christians in order to prevent myself from cutting other's out of my life for good.

 

[lordbt]

I am still not sure what your difficulty is. I hope she wont mind, but let me use "seashale76" and myself as an example. Clearly we have differing views on the existence of God, but I have to say that I find myself in complete agreement with her opinions on virtually everything else. There is no reason to focus on our one area of disagreement when we agree on so many other things. In fact, I dont believe the two of us have ever discussed theology to any real degree. Who knows, maybe some day will will have at it, but if we do, our disagreement wont make me think less of her as a person.

The point is this: Dont make atheism the core of your being. That is a trap many atheists fall into. Your lack of belief should not be a barrier to relationships with people of faith. If it is, the problem is yours, not theirs.

 

[undoing]

Wise and immature, I have to agree with the identification of atheism though, there's nothing worse than someone who says their way is the right one.

 

[seashale76]

It's my interest therefore to understand the "rules" of communicating with Christians in order to prevent myself from cutting other's out of my life for good.

There are no rules other than common courtesy. I don't think you can broad brush all Christians this way. We're not all carbon copies of each other. Deal with each person on an individual basis. I have friends, family, co-workers, and other acquaintances who are atheists and agnostics. I overwhelmingly get along with most of them. (In fact, my favorite on-line acquaintance is an atheist who was banned not long after me from another message board a few years back. Trumped up unfairness to the both of us, I assure you. We used to keep up quite regularly.) Of course, sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. Depending on the person there are conversational topics that I know to avoid.

And no, lordbt, I don't mind.