Difficult concept to struggle with

[98cwitr]

Matthew 7:23 "Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

How is it that God, being all knowing, can claim that He never knew someone? I cannot wrap brain around this. The more disrupting part is then reading Mark 2 and 'some the the teachers of law' committing what I am to understand as the "unforgivable sin" and Jesus knowing their hearts and Luke 11 where the same occurs when Jesus drove out the evil spirit and those claimed He was using evil to drive out evil. My point is that the Bible clearly dictates that Jesus knew their minds and hearts (therefore who they are, right?) and Jesus, being perfect (thus choosing never to lie) will on the day of judgement let these men who apparently committed an unforgivable sin into heaven?

I don't believe that God/Jesus will ever lie, in the Bible or otherwise, therefore I am completely dumbfounded by these passages when placing them in their contexts. Can anyone shed some logical light on this? I want to think it is figurative, but the word "plainly" in Matthew 7:23 implies that Jesus is not using figurative or metaphorical diction.

 

[mont974x4]

There is different types of "know". He, of course, knows them but they do not "know" eachother. For another example the demons know Christ but they do not "know" Him.

 

[joy2daworld]

The original language, Greek, has many words that can not be translated into English. If you were to go back to the Greek you would understand this phrase to mean that he would not "recognize" them as his children when it came time to give an account on judgment day.

 

[Hentenza]

That is the reason why I do not like paraphrase translations. They are horrible to do study. Here it is NKJV.

Matt. 7:23
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

The Greek work rendered here as "declare" is omologēsō. The definition is "to confess". What Jesus is saying here is that He can not "confess" about them because they were not acquainted. Jesus did not recognize or approved them.

This is how Jesus will omologēsō (confess) those that He does know.

Matt. 10:32
32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.

 

[Andy S. Wright]

He's speaking relationally. There is a vast difference between knowing of someone's existence and knowing someone relationally. For example, I know Michael Jordan. I know his name, his face and with some effort I can know about his basketball career. I do not know Michael Jordan relationally. I can't tell you his favorite food, favorite color, nor his favorite movie (although I suspect its that movie he starred in with Bugs Bunny).

God may know everyone in existence but he only has a relationship with those who are a part of his family. That's the message he's trying to convey. Relationship is more important than spiritual rituals or religious practices.

 

[Hammster]

It also needs to be understood in context. It is a judgment. He was explaining that there will be people who come to Him on the day of judgment pleading their case on why they should get in. They will tell of all the good works they did in Jesus' name. But it is clear that they did them on their own for their own purpose and not because of the will of God. They think they should be known for their works. Jesus will send them away because He never knew them because they were not doing the work of the Father.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
†. Mtt 7:22-23 . . Many will say to me in that day; Lord, Master, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name exorcised devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them; I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

That passage is quite remarkable because it doesn't target Atheists, nor Hindus, nor Muslims. No, it targets people professing to have done many wonderful works in Christ's name; even preaching in his name and performing exorcisms in his name; viz: it targets Christians— and not just your average rank and file pew warmers, no, but rather it targets outstanding Christians like Mother Teresa, Pope John Paul II, Padre Pio, Carlos Manuel Rodriguez, Billy Graham, Luis Palau, and Pastors, Deacons, Sunday school teachers, and Missionaries; in other words: it targets the cream of the crop; the celebrities of the Christian world; renowned for their accomplishments, their piety, their perseverance, their knowledge, their love, and their dedication. And it's not just to a few, but to many of those kinds of Christians that Jesus will say; "I never knew you."

How could the Lord not be friends with those kinds of Christians? And if it cannot be guaranteed that Christ is friends with the cream of the crop, then what chance does the average rank and file pew warmer have of becoming friends with Christ?

C.L.I.F.F.
/

 

[mlqurgw]

.
†. Mtt 7:22-23 . . Many will say to me in that day; Lord, Master, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name exorcised devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them; I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

That passage is quite remarkable because it doesn't target Atheists, nor Hindus, nor Muslims. No, it targets people professing to have done many wonderful works in Christ's name; even preaching in his name and performing exorcisms in his name; viz: it targets Christians— and not just your average rank and file pew warmers, no, but rather it targets outstanding Christians like Mother Teresa, Pope John Paul II, Padre Pio, Carlos Manuel Rodriguez, Billy Graham, Luis Palau, and Pastors, Deacons, Sunday school teachers, and Missionaries; in other words: it targets the cream of the crop; the celebrities of the Christian world; renowned for their accomplishments, their piety, their perseverance, their knowledge, their love, and their dedication. It is to not just a few, but to many of them that Jesus will say; "I never knew you."

How could the Lord not be friends with those kinds of Christians? And if it cannot be guaranteed that Christ is friends with the cream of the crop, then what chance does the average rank and file pew warmer have of becoming friends with Christ?

C.L.I.F.F.
/

The Lord isn't targeting the "celebrities" here but those who are looking to their practice of religion rather than Him. In verse 21 of Matt. 7 the Lord tells us plainly who He is talking about. He says that those who do the will of His Father are those enter into His kingdom. Those who do the will of the Father are those who trust Him alone and not their works.John 6:28 We find a better explanation of who in chapter 25:31-46 where He speaks of the day when He shall separate the sheep from the goats.

 

[98cwitr]

whoever is first will be last and whoever last be first Matthew 20.

The part that still bothers me is that he is saying he never knew them...not "I knew you once and now I am claiming I dont because you are unrighteous in my eyes..." or anything along those lines. It's an absolute and definitive statement. I don't see it as relational because God is all knowing as it is literal in the translation.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
RE: He says that those who do the will of His Father are those enter into His kingdom.

Duh.

RE: We find a better explanation of who in chapter 25:31-46 where He speaks of the day when He shall separate the sheep from the goats.

It's a very common error to assume that the sheep and goats judgment of Mtt 25:31-46 is synonymous with the Great White Throne judgment of Rev 20:11-15.

The judgment of the sheep and goats will take place on earth; and it only effects the living survivors of the Tribulation; while the Great White Throne takes place off-planet, out in space, and it only effects the dead. The Dead are mentioned four times in Rev 20:11-15 while the living aren't mentioned at all.

The criteria of the sheep and goats judgment is based upon just one single solitary element: how people treat Jesus' fellow Jewish countrymen during the reign of the awful antichrist when there will be worldwide anti-Semitism on a scale so vast and terrible as to make the Nazis look like Santa's elves in comparison.

The criteria of the Great White Throne is based upon the entire record of one's life, every detail, even one's idle words (Mtt 12:36) and nobody goes to heaven from that judgment. Why? Because they're all dead. Only the living go to heaven.

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message, and believe in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from Death into Life.

†. Eph 2:1 . . At one time you were dead, doomed forever because of your many sins.

†. Eph 2:4-5 . . But God, who is rich in mercy— because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses — made us alive together with Christ

According to Jesus' testimony, the living are identified as people having eternal life (John 5:24) which is a kind of life that cannot die. Therefore the living are impervious to the wages of sin.

†. Rom 6:23 . . The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

According to God's testimony as an expert witness in all matters pertaining to His own son; people professing themselves to be Christians, while not possessing eternal life, do not have His son; viz: they are quite christless, and also in grave danger of the wrath of God.

†.1John 5:11-12 . .And this is what God has testified: He has given us eternal life, and this life is in His son. So whoever has God's son has the life; whoever does not have the life, does not have His son.

†. John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; but he who disbelieves the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

Since everybody dies the first time for Adam's sin (Rom 5:12) then everybody has to die a second time in order to satisfy justice for their own sins. Thank, praise, and kiss the Bible God's feet and toes that my own second death was accomplished "in" Christ on his cross.

†. Rom 6:3-4 . . Are you unaware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

†. Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ

That's kind of ironic. I've actually died the second time before even dying the first time. And since there are no more than two deaths per person; then there's no danger of my ever having to die again after I pass on. Pretty cool.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

 

[Hammster]

whoever is first will be last and whoever last be first Matthew 20.



The part that still bothers me is that he is saying he never knew them...not "I knew you once and now I am claiming I dont because you are unrighteous in my eyes..." or anything along those lines. It's an absolute and definitive statement. I don't see it as relational because God is all knowing as it is literal in the translation.

This is where the reformed view of election makes more sense.

 

[Phileoeklogos]

whoever is first will be last and whoever last be first Matthew 20.

The part that still bothers me is that he is saying he never knew them...not "I knew you once and now I am claiming I dont because you are unrighteous in my eyes..." or anything along those lines. It's an absolute and definitive statement. I don't see it as relational because God is all knowing as it is literal in the translation.

Yes God is all knowing, He has all knowledge, He is omniscient, but He knows some in the relational sense,




Exo 33:17 And the LORD said to Moses, "This very thing that you have spoken I will do, for you have found favor in my sight, and I know you by name.



Jer 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations."




Joh 10:14I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,
Joh 10:15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.



Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.


Gal 4:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?



2Ti 2:19 But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity."


What would cause me to worry is if He would have said, " I once knew you, but I don't know you anymore ", people have tried to use that verse to prove that salvation can be lost, but He says, I never knew you, i.e. you were never my sheep, they sought to enter the kingdom by other means.


Joh 10:1"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber.


Joh 10:7 So Jesus again said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.



Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me,
Joh 10:26but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock.
Joh 10:27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Joh 10:28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.