Different views on Christian Rock

[givethanks]

Hi. i know there already is a thread about christian rock, but i just
discovered some pages on the net that confused me amazingly so i really thought this was worth a new thread. ps: im a christian rock lover

Okay to start out. here are some quotes that you will find in the pages below:

Danced around the golden calf (Exodus 32). God commended David and condemned Israel; the only difference was the object of worship.

"Christian" rock music is as consistent as "Christian" pot parties, "Christian" promiscuity or "Christian pornography. In fact, it might not be too long betore the latter will be defended with the same logic as "Christian" rock is presently being defended, viz., "You don't want to lose these teenagers now, do you?"


In this article I will expose the infiltration by Satan into professing Christianity through the medium of music. Many will howl with glee when I point out the errors of "Christian" Rock and Contemporary "Christian" Music. These same people will themselves invite cigarette-smoking, beer-drinking, pot-smoking, pill-taking, fornicating, adulterous, wife-abusing, honky-tonk-attending, Southern "Gospel" groups into their church sanctuaries to "whoop it up for the Lord." As a result, I will deal with Southern "Gospel" music first. There cannot be total fairness if we single out one particular style of music for a diatribe while accepting another style equally as guilty. God does not just hate rock music sin; He hates southern music sin as well.
yeah right?!??!

there is more..

(in chache links)

http://www.google.nl/search?q=cache...ck/crocknob.html+beloved+christian+rock&hl=nl

http://www.google.nl/search?q=cache...hristianrock.htm+beloved+christian+rock&hl=nl

http://www.google.nl/search?q=cache...ch.org/music.htm+beloved+christian+rock&hl=nl


please check out these (above) sites if you care. i just want the opinions of others about this. personally i love rock music, especially christian rock. but these pages kind of scared me.

what do you think?
God bless.

 

[bleechers]

"Christian" rock music is as consistent as "Christian" pot parties, "Christian" promiscuity or "Christian pornography. In fact, it might not be too long betore the latter will be defended with the same logic as "Christian" rock is presently being defended, viz., "You don't want to lose these teenagers now, do you?"

No it is not. There are certainly Biblical prohibitions against fornication, lust, drunkeness and similar. I have yet to find the verse that addresses the back-beat.

In this article I will expose the infiltration by Satan into professing Christianity through the medium of music. Many will howl with glee when I point out the errors of "Christian" Rock and Contemporary "Christian" Music. These same people will themselves invite cigarette-smoking, beer-drinking, pot-smoking, pill-taking, fornicating, adulterous, wife-abusing, honky-tonk-attending, Southern "Gospel" groups into their church sanctuaries to "whoop it up for the Lord."

That's a pretty wide brush is it not?

Does the writer know every one of these people personally?

As a result, I will deal with Southern "Gospel" music first. There cannot be total fairness if we single out one particular style of music for a diatribe while accepting another style equally as guilty. God does not just hate rock music sin; He hates southern music sin as well.

Show me in the Bible where "God hates rock music"?

If you know this guy, I'll debate him any time, any where (within reason). He doesn't have a biblical leg to stand on.

these pages kind of scared me

They scared you because the writer doesn't you want to search the scriptures (Acts 17:11) he merely wants to put you under Law. They cannot reason from the scriptures, so they use a lot of hyperbole, strong language (re: pot-smoking) and a lot of exclamation points. They also love to build up straw man arguments and knowck them down...

Any time... any where...

 

[bleechers]

Watch, I can do it too with Classical music:

(Note: This is Satire. The arguments are their arguments just aimed at classical instead of rock music. I send this to them to show them that their method is mishandling the Bible can be used for any purpose.)

===================================================

Dear Christian Friend!!

Sound the Alarm against Symphonic music!!!

You must warn your readers about the danger of classical music! It is obviously the driving force of the ecumenical movement!! Many Catholic hyms are based on the works of these degenerate classical composers! The works of these unbelievers has been at the core of the Christian demise and has permeated our Hymnals!

This music, written by wicked men, is used in Catholic Churches, abbeys, convents and monastaries around the world every day! It is the music of anti-Christ! Its use in the true church has slowly drawn the church down the road of ecumenism!

The work of unregenerate (many Catholic) so-called classical musicians has been used in the true church since the beginning of this century. This ecumenical wine was written by debauched men like Mozart and brought into the church unawares (Jude 3). Some would say "look at the words", but I say "is putting scripture on the label of a wine bottle make it any less intoxicating?"

May we similarly "Christianize" liquor by putting a gospel message on the bottle label and have Christians buy and promote it to reach drunks for Jesus? - Calvary Contender

Surely, this was the kind of music used by Nebachadnezzer (a type of Anti-Christ) when he unveiled his golden statue of idolatry! How can the church continue to allow this music, penned by wicked men, to be used in our churches?

Jimmy Swaggart sang these songs for years and put out many albums of hymns based on their work! This led him to a life of debauchery and false doctrine! Now the Catholic church is using this music to fuel the ecumenical movement (see below)!!

NOTE: The music scores to almost all the wicked Hollywood movies of the last 25 years featured neo-classical compositions!! Star Wars and other false religion movies are known as much by their musical scores as they are by their charcaters!!!

Homosexuals buy a disproportionate amount of classical music! The pro-homosexual Hollywood movie "Philadelphia" used classical music to engender sympathy for a wicked sodomite and dampen the discernment of Christians!!

Your ministry must sound the call against symphonic music!!

19-January-2004 -- Catholic World News Brief


POPE SAYS GREAT RELIGIONS MUST UNITE FOR PEACE

Vatican, Jan. 19 (CWNews.com) - At a "concert for reconciliation," held in the Vatican's Paul VI auditorium on January 17, Pope John Paul II said that the world needs the combined witness of Jews, Christians, and Muslims in support of peace.


"The history of relations among Jews, Christians, and Muslims shows both lights and shadows, and unfortunately some sad moments," the Pope said. In today's dangerous world, he continued, there is an "urgent need" for the world's great religions to come together, in light of their "common desire that all men be purified of the hatred and evil that always threaten peace."


The Pope made his remarks after the presentation of two symphonic works: Mahler's "Resurrection" and Harbison's "Abraham." The two works were selected to highlight the common beliefs of the three monotheistic religions.


Prior to the musical program, Cardinal Walter Kasper -- who was one of the principal organizers of the event, in his capacity as president of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity-- saluted Pope John Paul for his efforts to promote inter-religious harmony during the 25 years of his pontificate. Cardinal Kasper took note of some of the Pope's memorable gestures in that direction: his visit to the synagogue in Rome, to the Western Wall in Jerusalem, to al-Azhar university in Cairo, and to the Ommeyyad mosque in Damascus. The Holy Father, he said, has been "a courageous witness against hatred and violence." At the conclusion of the concert, the Pope warmly saluted conductor Gilbert Levine, who had let the Pittsburgh Symphony, accompanied by choirs from Ankara, Krakow, and London. [end]

Classical music is of the world! Many classical writers were unbelievers and Papists! It has been the music of the Vatican! It is the music of the homosexual! Perverse movies like "10" and "Clockwork Oragange" and "Philadelphia" have used classical and neo-classical music to seduce listeners!!

Ravel's "Bolero" has been called one of the most sensual pieces of music ever written! The Beatles drug-laden pop album (considered the greatest pop album ever in a recent edition of Rolling Stone magazine) is replete with orchestral (hypnotic) music!! Half of their drug -inspired cartoon movie Yellow Submarine uses neo-classical music to dull the brains and arouse the sensual side of its viewers!!

Classical musicians lead wicked lives in places like NYC! It is the music of choice in our top secular state univeristy schools of music!! These students are more likely to be on drugs than the regular population! Classical music performnaces are attended almost exclusively by upperclass God-haters who, as a group, are almost eclusively pro-homosexual and pro-abortion!


Leviticus 10:1
And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.


Daniel 3:7
Therefore at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and all kinds of musick, all the people, the nations, and the languages, fell down and worshipped the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up

You MUST sound the alarm!!

 

[The_White]

Well done bleechers, well done

 

[givethanks]

thank you bleechers for your contribution.
i posted those lines because i think theyre all nonsense in this context,
but still they scared me. i mean, why the hell would someone take this from us?
its exactly what you did with classical music. well done haha

 

[bleechers]

Just as we need to check what these anti-CCM ministries are saying and doing against what the Bible teaches, so must we check what CCM artists say and do against the Bible.

The Bible is the filter by which we judge what is Christian and what is not.

 

[Rich48]

Many will howl with glee when I point out the errors of "Christian" Rock and Contemporary "Christian" Music. These same people will themselves invite cigarette-smoking, beer-drinking, pot-smoking, pill-taking, fornicating, adulterous, wife-abusing, honky-tonk-attending, Southern "Gospel" groups into their church sanctuaries to "whoop it up for the Lord."

Oh boy! This person is out there in la-la land. To say something like this is just plain dumb. I wonder what the members of groups such as the Bishops, Cathedrals, et al would think of this description of them?

Rich

 

[givethanks]

sorry, but what is a backbeat? (english is not my first language )

 

[bleechers]

sorry, but what is a backbeat? (english is not my first language )

If you read many of the anti-CCM folks, at some point they point the finger at the "backbeat" in rock music.

In 4/4 time, a march beat emphasizes the first beat. In rock music, the third beat is emphasized. You can clearly hear this on any 4/4 time rock song (soft or hard).

pop pop POP pop, pop pop POP pop, etc.

That's why it's called a "back" beat because it falls at the back of the measure. From there, they like to quote some university professor or some study that shows that the back beat kills brain cells in rats or harms plant life or something... Unfortunately for them, the Bible contains no such info.


Hope that helps

 

[givethanks]

ooooooh i see. yeah i know exactly what it is now, thanks for the such clear explanation.

how can they actually think a backbeat is evil? i mean why if the Bible doesnt contain any info about it? ive never really understand people who say such things..

 

[bleechers]

ooooooh i see. yeah i know exactly what it is now, thanks for the such clear explanation.

how can they actually think a backbeat is evil? i mean why if the Bible doesnt contain any info about it? ive never really understand people who say such things..

This is what happens when people start with a conclusion and then start looking for it in the Bible, instead of letting the Bible teach what the Bible actually teaches.

 

[givethanks]

we should just all listen to the Holy Spirit instead of misleading eachother dont you think? (actions speak louder than words though)

 

[WannaWitness]

Although I personally have a place where I draw the line (that is, metal does nothing for me), there are some ultra-strict types that view anything contemporary (even at its mellowest) or jazzy as being evil. They have their reasons for their convictions, and that's fine. What's not fine is to tell others that they're less spiritual merely for not having the same conviction.

What they may be failing to realize is that the most "traditional" music styles was considered "contemporary" at one time.

I believe a Godly person can be versatile and appreciate a variety of styles of music. Everyone is different, and anything done in the wrong motives God Himself will be the Judge.

 

[TheThrill]

Well said WannaWitness.

And bleechers rocked this thread. That piece on Classical Music was classic!!! LOL.

 

[guitargeekette]

They use what the genre itself has been associated with in the past COMPLETELY forgetting that music is nothing without words...therefore, if the words speak life, then that is wonderful if they can appeal to people who like that genre.

(Go on Bleechers!!)

 

[Mr. Timothy]

I shared this in another post - now I will share it in a more appropriate spot.

Rock music comes from a long line of rebellion and sinful innovators, any musician who is following the footpaths of these men is following after the world. Are they A Christian or not a Christian? That isn't my judgment to make, but no matter what the Bible gives enough evidence that Christian Rock artist are following the world and quit possibly are the Devils tool to keep us from getting close to God. Titus 2:12 says, "Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world"

When I open my Bible I read 1 John 2:15-16 “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.” I hope all of the Bible translations clearly outline that we are to not love the world. Why? 1 Peter 1:16 sums it up when Peter writes, "Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy" I am sorry - Christian rock, rap, praise music, and soft rock is NOT holy. If it was holy then the WORLD would not want to listen. Does the world want to read the HOLY BIBLE?

When you are a Christian Rocker you are offering music that caters to the flesh, an image that caters to the flesh, and a overall ability to conform to current fads and standards to make your music appeal to the masses, or lets just say the flesh. When you sell millions of CDs and you have millions of people praising the music and ability you posses a little pride I am sure. Clearly, when I see marketing stratages that are designed to sell more and more CDs and sell more and more concerts that will apeal to Christains and the World I can't help but remember, "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears"

I agree that Christian Rock music has words that mention God, or have a message that can bring a tear. But, when I hear that argument I remember clearly James 2:19, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble"

Fact is, I can make the clame very easily that people today do not want to be a sacrifice for God. We should scrifice our wants and desires becasue we read in Roman 12:1, "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." If we can't give up the modern musical trends that are a product of rebelion and sinfull inovation then maybe we are not fit for Gods commandment to be Holy. Like I said, I can clame very easily that people today do not want to be a sacrifice - they never want to give up TV, Christain Rock, and everything else that could be given up for the glory of God.

Now - you read all this and you say, "Dude, lighten up, it's just music and you just don't know the artist, the light they shine ...... "

Okay - well my Bible says, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." in Hebrews 10:31. And when I read the Bible I see time and time again that rebelion and selfishness leads to Gods judgement.

Take a good look at Christian Rock. Take a look at the sinfull record labels pushing these "Christians" to sell sell sell. Take a good look at all the worldly men who profit for the money made. Take a good look at the image we see on the stage and in the pictures of our favorate artist and tell me it doesen't copy what the world inovates. Read each artist web site and tell me why the salvation message is hidden? Why are lyrics more fluff than truth? Fact is, more bad can be said about CCM than Good. In my humble opinion, if I see bad outweighing the good then maybe it isn't good. I have owned many 100's of CCM Cds, been to concerts, and I KNOW what is going on.

Also, where is the persecution in these artist lives? I see nothing but TOP 10 status and Grammys! Bible says in 2 Timothy 3:12, "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."

Don't take my word for it, take Gods. Pick up your Bible and say, "God, show me the truth about this subject." Read and pray - God will help you.

Thank You.

 

[WannaWitness]

Here is an interesting link I've found some time back. Rather long, but interesting reading, no matter what side of the CCM debate you're on....

http://members.aol.com/etb700/ccm.html

 

[WannaWitness]

Another interesting link:

http://www.angelfire.com/yt/christianrockdefense/threestrikes.html

 

[WannaWitness]

I shared this in another post - now I will share it in a more appropriate spot.

Rock music comes from a long line of rebellion and sinful innovators, any musician who is following the footpaths of these men is following after the world. Are they A Christian or not a Christian? That isn't my judgment to make, but no matter what the Bible gives enough evidence that Christian Rock artist are following the world and quit possibly are the Devils tool to keep us from getting close to God. Titus 2:12 says, "Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world"

When I open my Bible I read 1 John 2:15-16 “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.” I hope all of the Bible translations clearly outline that we are to not love the world. Why? 1 Peter 1:16 sums it up when Peter writes, "Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy" I am sorry - Christian rock, rap, praise music, and soft rock is NOT holy. If it was holy then the WORLD would not want to listen. Does the world want to read the HOLY BIBLE?

When you are a Christian Rocker you are offering music that caters to the flesh, an image that caters to the flesh, and a overall ability to conform to current fads and standards to make your music appeal to the masses, or lets just say the flesh. When you sell millions of CDs and you have millions of people praising the music and ability you posses a little pride I am sure. Clearly, when I see marketing stratages that are designed to sell more and more CDs and sell more and more concerts that will apeal to Christains and the World I can't help but remember, "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears"

I agree that Christian Rock music has words that mention God, or have a message that can bring a tear. But, when I hear that argument I remember clearly James 2:19, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble"

Fact is, I can make the clame very easily that people today do not want to be a sacrifice for God. We should scrifice our wants and desires becasue we read in Roman 12:1, "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." If we can't give up the modern musical trends that are a product of rebelion and sinfull inovation then maybe we are not fit for Gods commandment to be Holy. Like I said, I can clame very easily that people today do not want to be a sacrifice - they never want to give up TV, Christain Rock, and everything else that could be given up for the glory of God.

Now - you read all this and you say, "Dude, lighten up, it's just music and you just don't know the artist, the light they shine ...... "

Okay - well my Bible says, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." in Hebrews 10:31. And when I read the Bible I see time and time again that rebelion and selfishness leads to Gods judgement.

Take a good look at Christian Rock. Take a look at the sinfull record labels pushing these "Christians" to sell sell sell. Take a good look at all the worldly men who profit for the money made. Take a good look at the image we see on the stage and in the pictures of our favorate artist and tell me it doesen't copy what the world inovates. Read each artist web site and tell me why the salvation message is hidden? Why are lyrics more fluff than truth? Fact is, more bad can be said about CCM than Good. In my humble opinion, if I see bad outweighing the good then maybe it isn't good. I have owned many 100's of CCM Cds, been to concerts, and I KNOW what is going on.

Also, where is the persecution in these artist lives? I see nothing but TOP 10 status and Grammys! Bible says in 2 Timothy 3:12, "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."

Don't take my word for it, take Gods. Pick up your Bible and say, "God, show me the truth about this subject." Read and pray - God will help you.

Thank You.

I see where you're coming from, and if this is your conviction, I commend you for it.

But may I ask a question? What styles, in your eyes, do not have a "worldly" sound? I'm not wanting to debate, or anything; it's just simply for the sake of curiosity.

 

[Mr. Timothy]

I see where you're coming from, and if this is your conviction, I commend you for it.

But may I ask a question? What styles, in your eyes, do not have a "worldly" sound? I'm not wanting to debate, or anything; it's just simply for the sake of curiosity.

I feal that all styles can have a "worldly" sound. Some styles have an exclusive worldly sound, like Rock, Rap & much Country because it's past is filled with creation and innovation surrounded by secularism. The music is more appealing based on the beat and the quality of music, than the lyrics and their message.

But, other styles such as traditional church hymns, gospel music, and even folk music can be very sacred and appropriate, but easily can become "worldly" also when self and worldly intentions becoming apart of the musicians & performers purpose.

I am new on this forum and don't have the ability to post links. But, if you do a google search for Pensacola Christian Collage and visit their bookstore you will find The Rejoice Singers. I think this illustrates a good example of non-worldly music.

To be honest. I find more and more the local church and the people who are talented and sing specials exibit the most sacred and appropriate music to be found. When you buy a CD you really are opening up a world where you will be making the best decision you can based on wanting to be Holy and keeping your eyes on Jesus.

Hope this helps.