different view on abortion

[knownbeforetime]

It was something that popped into my head a while back...

Abortion is wrong NOT because the fetus is human but that the fetus has the potential to become human. I contend that God designed conception so a human being could be born but that the fetus itself is not necessarily human. I would also contend that when God allows a woman to concieve (whether it be in or out of sin) that God intends for the child to be kept to term.

It would also be similar with birth control. Birth control prevents God from allowing a woman to concieve (through rebellion) a fetus which would have the potential to become human.

But this view bothers me a little because it kinda reduces abortion to simply rebelling against God. Under this view, you could still say that abortion=murder but the sin is now far more removed from the action. And I would have to figure that blurry line of "when does a fetus become human" of which there is no Biblical precedent.

Although I DID come up with this on my own, I'm sure I'm not the only to approach this reasoning... (And I swear this is just reasoning! I don't really believe this rationalization but it popped into my head one day...)

 

[ebia]

Most embryos that are conceived do not go to term. The majority die off before anyone notices. If an embryo is human, then the vast majority of humans die before anyone but God realises they even exist.

 

[JunkYardDog]

It was something that popped into my head a while back...

Abortion is wrong NOT because the fetus is human but that the fetus has the potential to become human. I contend that God designed conception so a human being could be born but that the fetus itself is not necessarily human. I would also contend that when God allows a woman to concieve (whether it be in or out of sin) that God intends for the child to be kept to term.

It would also be similar with birth control. Birth control prevents God from allowing a woman to concieve (through rebellion) a fetus which would have the potential to become human.

But this view bothers me a little because it kinda reduces abortion to simply rebelling against God. Under this view, you could still say that abortion=murder but the sin is now far more removed from the action. And I would have to figure that blurry line of "when does a fetus become human" of which there is no Biblical precedent.

Although I DID come up with this on my own, I'm sure I'm not the only to approach this reasoning... (And I swear this is just reasoning! I don't really believe this rationalization but it popped into my head one day...)

John the baptizer, at six months gestation, recognized the presence of Jesus, probably less than two weeks gestation, and responded by leaping for joy in his mother, Elizabeth's womb. Sounds pretty human to me.

The pro-aborts have put forth the "protential life" idea as a way of dehumanizing their victims. Don't fall for it. We are made in the image of God. That's why abortion is murder.

 

[JunkYardDog]

Most embryos that are conceived do not go to term. The majority die off before anyone notices. If an embryo is human, then the vast majority of humans die before anyone but God realises they even exist.

As a result of the Fall, conception is multiplied and many die before they are mature (both intra- and extra-uterine). This does not dehumanize the dead. In fact, it might shed some light on Jesus' comment about children, "Of such is the kingdom of God."

 

[fresh]

Well it is obvious they are living at time of abortion:

At this point the ectoderm grows rapidly over the next few days forming a thickened area. The three layers of the will eventually give rise to:

Endoderm that will form the lining of lungs, tongue, tonsils, urethra and associated glands, bladder and digestive tract.

Mesoderm that will form the muscles, bones, lymphatic tissue, spleen, blood cells, heart, lungs, and reproductive and excretory systems.

Ectoderm that will form the skin, nails, hair, lens of eye, lining of the internal and external ear, nose, sinuses, mouth, anus, tooth enamel, pituitary gland, mammary glands, and all parts of the nervous system.

At this point the blood cells of the embryo are already developed and they begin to form channels along the epithelial cells which form consecutively with the blood cells.

At this point the head is developing the fissures characteristics of humans. Eyelids and external ear more developed and the upper lip fully formed. The brain can move muscles.

Thorax: The critical period of heart development ends. It will continue to develop, but not at such a quick pace.

Pelvis: In female embryos, the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is beginning to form. The penis will develop from the same tissue.

Limbs: Primary ossification centers appear in the long bones, directing the replacement of cartilage by bone. This process usually begins in the upper limbs. Fingers overlap those of opposite hand, and the digits of the fingers fully separate. Feet lengthen and become more defined.

P.s. at this point the embryo looks like a fetus with a tail. The head and arms and feet are present as stated above. The ears, mouth and eyes are present as well. The lungs, brain and heart are present and working.

So, even after only approx. 2 months postovular, the embryo is living and well on its way to becoming another human in this World. Unless you kilt this embryo perhaps two weeks postovular, you would be murdering an almost fully functioning child.

Reference: http://www.visembryo.com/baby/stage1.html

 

[Dale]

As I've asked pro-lifers before, where does the Bible say:
(1) Thou shalt not abort;
(2) Abortion is murder;
(3) A foetus is a person from the moment of conception.

What I just gave is three way to state the pro-life position and none of them are in the Bible. The place we would expect to find it is in the Old Testament Law or in the Sermon on the Mount. It isn't in either place.

 

[JunkYardDog]

As I've asked pro-lifers before, where does the Bible say:
(1) Thou shalt not abort;
(2) Abortion is murder;
(3) A foetus is a person from the moment of conception.

What I just gave is three way to state the pro-life position and none of them are in the Bible. The place we would expect to find it is in the Old Testament Law or in the Sermon on the Mount. It isn't in either place.

There is nothing specifically about racism or child molesting in the Bible either, but for your answers:

1. See Commandment 6.
2. See Proverbs 6: 16-17
3. See 3 above and Jeremiah 1: 5 and others

 

[fresh]

As I've asked pro-lifers before, where does the Bible say:
(1) Thou shalt not abort;
(2) Abortion is murder;
(3) A foetus is a person from the moment of conception.

What I just gave is three way to state the pro-life position and none of them are in the Bible. The place we would expect to find it is in the Old Testament Law or in the Sermon on the Mount. It isn't in either place.

Sir, you missed my post? I just proved the child is alive and almost a fully functional human being at only 2 months postovular. Why do you need the Bible to tell you so, when I just took the time to post the facts about embryonic growth w/ reference. Abortion clinics by law must abort only upto 7 - 8 weeks postovular and some have done upto 12. By 8 weeks, the embryo is pumping blood, moving muscles and nearly fully functional. Regardless if the Bible says anything about it or not, it is wrong and murder.

EDIT: this is what the embryo looks like at 8 - 9 weeks: http://www.visembryo.com/baby/stage23.html

 

[JunkYardDog]

Sir, you missed my post? I just proved the child is alive and almost a fully functional human being at only 2 months postovular. Why do you need the Bible to tell you so, when I just took the time to post the facts about embryonic growth w/ reference. Abortion clinics by law must abort only upto 7 - 8 weeks postovular and some have done upto 12. By 8 weeks, the embryo is pumping blood, moving muscles and nearly fully functional. Regardless if the Bible says anything about it or not, it is wrong and murder.

EDIT: this is what the embryo looks like at 8 - 9 weeks: http://www.visembryo.com/baby/stage23.html

Abortion clinics in the U.S. may abort all the way until the child takes its first breath outside the womb. In some states there are restrictions on third trimester abortions such as requirements that they be done in hospitals rather than free-standing clinics. The yellow page ad for one clinic here advertises abortions up to 25 weeks. Check your own yellow pages. Tiller the Killer in Wichita, Kansas is famous for his third trimester abortions.

 

[fresh]

by 25 weeks the embryo is already showing brain activity, they are responding to light, they've got finger and toe nails, man that is just horrible. In India it has become common to abort even upto 9 months. I still say we shouldn't protest clinics or the people that partake in this abomination only because I feel that protesting is not the answer. What we need is a nation wide law which is much more limiting and equipped with a very harsh penalty for those who exploit the system. I mean, if a thief can rob your house, fall threw the moonlighting and sue YOU and win - then I think we can afford to give the same if not a little more consideration to a helpless LIVING human embryo.

 

[jingwei]

what is your stance on paul hill?

 

[fresh]

what do you think? he is a psycho that deserves all the humilation he has gotten by the media, he is a moron, a horrible poet.

EDIT: or should I say was..

 

[knownbeforetime]

I would like to reiterate that I don't actually believe this view. It just popped into my head one day without any provocation (by Satan? Maybe...). I AM TOTALLY AGAINST DEHUMANIZING THE UNBORN!!!!