Different state past

[Tiberius]

I don't care what the natural record shows, the divine record says otherwise.

To acquire your point-of-view, one would have to first assume that the natural record is natural, and I'm not willing to do that.

These 'natural records' and 'fossil records' and 'civilization records' can all take a backseat to the Bible.

They run on the uniformitarian principle.

Kick God out of nature and everything will look like it aged.

In other words, reality can take a hike.

 

[KhaosTheory]

Wow how did this thread get 39 pages?

Did someone forget to tell the OP that the burden of proof is on the claimant not us?

He was asking us to disprove something he just made up.

Look, I can do that too:

Dad, I have an invisible dragon in my closet who wants us to worship him. Prove me wrong! Can't? OK, start worshiping my invisible dragon or he will eat you!

 

[pgp_protector]

Wow how did this thread get 39 pages?

Did someone forget to tell the OP that the burden of proof is on the claimant not us?

He was asking us to disprove something he just made up.

Look, I can do that too:

Dad, I have an invisible dragon in my closet who wants us to worship him. Prove me wrong! Can't? OK, start worshiping my invisible dragon or he will eat you!

How long between not worshiping him before he'll eat ya?

 

[Jazer]

I don't care what the natural record shows, the divine record says otherwise.

Where does the Bible say otherwise? Man's traditions says otherwise not the Bible. I have searched and searched and searched the Bible and I do not find any contradictions. I esp searched the story about Noah and the Flood. I wanted to know if the Bible was really talking about the whole earth or just the land of Eden. Following the standard rules of Bible interpretation we look to see who the story was first written for. Then we determine what the message is for us today.

If you come to a different understanding from your personal study that is fine. All you can do is go with what you feel God is showing you. I can only go with what I feel God is showing me.

 

[Jazer]

Wow how did this thread get 39 pages?

Did someone forget to tell the OP that the burden of proof is on the claimant not us?

I do not know about proof. I think we are just trying to figure out what a "different state past" is. What has changed and what was suppose to have been different from today.

 

[dad]

Wow how did this thread get 39 pages?

Did someone forget to tell the OP that the burden of proof is on the claimant not us?

He was asking us to disprove something he just made up.
..

The same state past is made up. The different state past is bible 101. History 101. Logic 101.

Will you admit that science assumes that present laws were in place in the past?? Or must I force it?

 

[Jazer]

My wife's always telling me to 'grow up' --

It's my wife that needs to grow up. Her sister was upset because the son in law wanted to go to the gym and work out and he did not want to watch the baby. They were calling everyone trying to get everyone involved and raising all sorts of problems over that. It turns out after getting everyone involved that the mommy was on her way home from work and she was going to watch the baby. Some people need to look before they leap. She assumed she was going to get stuck with the baby and did not realize the mommy would be there to take care of the situation. Actually I was lucky to have a good mother in law. I would tell my wife you better be good or I will tell your mommy on you and she would straighten right up.

 

[dad]

Where does the Bible say otherwise? Man's traditions says otherwise not the Bible. I have searched and searched and searched the Bible and I do not find any contradictions. I esp searched the story about Noah and the Flood. I wanted to know if the Bible was really talking about the whole earth or just the land of Eden. Following the standard rules of Bible interpretation we look to see who the story was first written for. Then we determine what the message is for us today.

If you come to a different understanding from your personal study that is fine. All you can do is go with what you feel God is showing you. I can only go with what I feel God is showing me.

Ge 6:13 -And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.





Will you admit all men save Noah and co were killed? Yes or no?

 

[Jazer]

Will you admit that science assumes that present laws were in place in the past?? Or must I force it?

Do you mean something different then quantum physics where they try to demonstrate that different laws apply.

 

[NGC 6712]

Will you admit that science assumes that present laws were in place in the past?? Or must I force it?

Why admit something that can be demonstrated. You've been pulling this nonsense for years on the internet. I am sure it is you who used to post on another forum I have long since forgotten the name of even though I used to be a mod there. If it isn't you then sorry.

EvC forum if I recall.

 

[dad]

Do you mean something different then quantum physics where they try to demonstrate that different laws apply.

No. Quantum stuff is not known. Not in a deep and real way. Some think it may involve time travel for example.

I asked the poster if science assumes laws were the same. Our nature. The things in place for example that make an atom do what an atom does.

 

[dad]

Why admit something that can be demonstrated.

So you admit it, and up the ante by claiming you can demo it. Good. Do it. Here. Now.

You've been pulling this nonsense for years on the internet. I am sure it is you who used to post on another forum I have long since forgotten the name of even though I used to be a mod there. If it isn't you then sorry.

What forum?

 

[Jazer]

Ge 6:13 -And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Will you admit all men save Noah and co were killed? Yes or no?

The word "all" is not in the Hebrew, but that really does not matter. The question is what does "flesh" mean. Fast forward to Noah:

Gen 6:17 And, behold 2009, I 589, even I, do bring 935 a flood 3999 of waters 4325 upon the earth 776, to destroy 7843 all flesh1320, wherein [is] the breath 7307 of life 2416, from under 8478 heaven 8064; [and] every thing 3605 that [is] in the earth 776 shall die 1478 .

Were all men killed? No, only those with the "breath of life": Ruwach.

I do not know what good it will do for us to try and have this conversation with people who are not saved because they do not know what it means to be born again and to be a child of God. They do not see anything special or different about Adam compared to other men who were alive in his day. So the flood story makes no sense to them at all.

 

[dad]

The word "all" is not in the Hebrew, but that really does not matter. The question is what does "flesh" mean. Fast forward to Noah:

So Jesus had the connotation wrong?

Lu 17:27 - They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.


1Pe 3:20 -Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.



---What, want to up that number by a few billion?

Were all men killed? No, only those with the "breath of life": Ruwach.

I do not know what good it will do to try and have this conversation with people who are not saved because they do not know what it means to be born again and to be a child of God.

?? So men that didn't breath never got killed?

 

[rambot]

The same state past is made up. The different state past is bible 101. History 101. Logic 101.

I think that the same state past IS true but God did his creating unbound by those same laws.

So I guess my question dad is: Do you believe God is subject to the laws of nature or does he have the ability to transcend them.

 

[dad]

I think that the same state past IS true but God did his creating unbound by those same laws.

So how did He do His flood? Our laws?!

So I guess my question dad is: Do you believe God is subject to the laws of nature or does he have the ability to transcend them.

You kidding? Our nature..? Ha. It would be harder to conform to them than transcend them. Noah conformed to former state laws. He lived a long time. He saw fast plant growth. He saw the flood.


In fact, Noah also conformed to OUR laws!!!! BOTH. If the nature change was over a century after the flood, Noah was still alive.

 

[Jazer]

So Jesus had the connotation wrong?

Jesus never got anything wrong, but you got it wrong.

Lu 17:27 - They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

This is easy because the key word here is "marriage". The people that survived the flood were primate hunter gathers. They did not have marriage and they were not husband and wife or even man and women. They were simply male and female.

1Pe 3:20 -Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.



---What, want to up that number by a few billion?


?? So men that didn't breath never got killed?

It looks like you need to take a closer look at the word: Ruwach. I was hoping you could study some of this on your own. But that does not often seem to be the case on this forum. This is a key verse here:

Gen 2:7 And the LORD 3068 God 430 formed 3335 man 120 [of] the dust 6083 of 4480 the ground 127, and breathed5301 into his nostrils 639 the breath 5397 of life 2416; and man 120 became a living 2416 soul 5315.

There was something different about Adam. He was different from the other men, monkeys and apes alive at that time. He had the breath of life. This is what made him a son of God. Compare that with this verse and you will see the difference:

1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The man that God created in Gen 1:27 was NOT destoryed. It was the man and his descendants that we read about in Gen 2:7 that was destoryed. God saw to it that ONLY Noah and his four sons lived. NONE of the other descendants of Adam lived.

This maybe a problem for people that do not see a difference between the man God created in Gen 1:27 and the man God created in Gen 2:7. If you read the Bible and read the verses there is a BIG difference.

 

[NGC 6712]

So you admit it, and up the ante by claiming you can demo it. Good. Do it. Here. Now.

What forum?

EvC forum. I am sure it is you.

I know you have been listed these things before - heck there is a thread on here (maybe earlier this thread) where you have had these things pointed out.

 

[dad]

Jesus never got anything wrong, but you got it wrong.

This is easy because the key word here is "marriage". The people that survived the flood were primate hunter gathers. They did not have marriage and they were not husband and wife or even man and women. They were simply male and female.

So they did not perish because they....were hunters!! What a scream. You in a cult? Ridiculous.

It looks like you need to take a closer look at the word: Ruwach. I was hoping you could study some of this on your own. But that does not often seem to be the case on this forum. This is a key verse here:

Gen 2:7 And the LORD 3068 God 430 formed 3335 man 120 [of] the dust 6083 of 4480 the ground 127, and breathed5301 into his nostrils 639 the breath 5397 of life 2416; and man 120 became a living 2416 soul 5315.

There was something different about Adam. He was different from the other men, monkeys and apes alive at that time. He had the breath of life. This is what made him a son of God.

So Eve didn't breathe? How about Able? John the Baptist?

 

[dad]

EvC forum. I am sure it is you.

I know you have been listed these things before - heck there is a thread on here (maybe earlier this thread) where you have had these things pointed out.

Ha. In the early days I posted there as Simple. I also had a few other back up accounts as required when unfair moderating became apparent there. I had a few good discussions there. They were too cowardly to allow me to continue, they couldn't stand the heat. Their only recourse was to silence me.

I have since honed my ideas a lot, and the poor old guys there would be no match now. It used to be that they could fight me to a stalemate.

Now that you are here, say something! I dare you.. Revenge might be fun.

What was your name at EVC?