Different state past

[Tiberius]

That's only because you avoid any and all contact with it.

 

[verysincere]

The bible is clear. Trees that grew faster than anything possible now.

What is the Bible reference/citation for that statement about the trees?

 

[dad]

What is the Bible reference/citation for that statement about the trees?

Genesis. God planted a garden. That was in creation week. Man and beast ate from trees that week.

Also in the future, the millennium sees fantastic plant growth.

We also see Noah releasing a bird to look for trees. None were found. From the same spot a week later again a bird is sent out, this time returning with evidence of a tree in beak.

 

[dad]

Strange... somehow all people who claim to have been saved from death instantly stop making this claim the moment they die.

No. They don't. Some even have had deathbed conversions.

 

[dad]

If you are right AND if you are intellectually competent, you'd be able to convince anyone open to considering evidence, that you are right. But frankly, you have not.

Convince them of what?

So I guess my question is: How can you be so certain you are right? Is it just that your standard of evidence is selective and low?

Right about....what?

So the story of the creation of women.....aaaaand what?
Anything you have ever argued here ever. So, take your pick really...

In chapter one man was made on a certain day. In chapter 2 we find out that woman was made a certain way. The details of the rib, the operation, etc. ......etc.

Why are you suggesting that God needs to rent heavy equipment?

No. I am suggesting that God planted seeds. They grew fast.

NOW you are using language I can agree with: "concept". Because "concept" is a nonscientific word and requires no evidence outside of a couple of Bible quotes.
But I'd watch out because fast growing plants have evidence that they grew fast.

No. They don't when they are long dead and lived in the different state past.

I also have not been convinced of the literal 24hr day during creation, regardless of how flora and fauna came to be.

So how long could flora and fauna last with no sun?

 

[Freodin]

No. They don't. Some even have had deathbed conversions.

Just post here again when you died, and I will cede this point.

For that is the important point: you WILL die. From out huge experience, we know that everyone dies. (@Jazer: No, John, you have not died. You were quite close... but the consequence of dying is being dead. If you are not dead, you haven't died.)

And I can make this prediction with utmost certainty: you will stop making claims of any kind the moment you die.

So if you think "get saved from death" is something to strive for, I would adivse you to strive harder. Who knows, maybe you will be the first to achive that goal?

 

[verysincere]

Genesis. God planted a garden. That was in creation week. Man and beast ate from trees that week.

You'd better read again. More carefully.

Plus, Genesis 1 speaks of six YOM. From the earliest Christian writers there has been an awareness that YOM has multiple meanings and the context points to "undefined period of time" or "long epoch". In any case, "creation week" as six 24 hour days is just one TRADITIONAL INTERPRETATION. You are confusing potentially errant HUMAN INTERPRETATIONS with an inerrant BIBLE.

Nothing stated in the Bible describes that trees were created full-grown or in an instantaneous manner. That is simply an assumption made by those who insist that they can be sure that YOM is referring only to a 24 hour day ---even though even in the same passages YOM is used to refer to "creation week" in its entirety! So even those who demand some sort of "literal" interpretation break their own rule with that one. Of course, most people who use the word "literal" have little idea what the word actually means.)

[And before we waste time rehashing "the evening and the morning" arguments, please save the effort and read some of the online commentaries. I get bored with covering the same ground again and again to debunk the whole "must be 24 hour days" tradition. And check out the parallel usage in Joel 6.]

 

[verysincere]

So how long could flora and fauna last with no sun?

Have you never read Genesis 1 at all??

1) Genesis 1:1 says, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". The heavens refers to everything above the earth that one sees in the sky, including all stars, of which our sun is just one.

2) "Let there be light" soon follows. Don't you agree that that LIGHT was sufficient for photosynthesis?

Day 4 simply says that the heavenly bodies were apparently visible in such a way as to be useful for time-keeping. A simple reading of Genesis makes clear that light existed from before.

I get the impression that you have not read the Bible very carefully. It sounds like you are confusion it with TRADITIONS you have picked up from various sources, perhaps your local church. I'm not criticizing you for that. I functioned under HUMAN TRADITIONS about the Bible for years before I really focused on what the Bible did and did not say. I found huge differences! You will also.

 

[rambot]

So how long could flora and fauna last with no sun?

Why would that matter? You have plants bursting from the ground in a day with no biblical evidence that it all occurred in one day. They could last "as long as you want it to" apparently...

I think what would help is if you could find the verse that says "and plants sprang form from the seed in one day; at unbelievable speed".

 

[AV1611VET]

I think what would help is if you could find the verse that says "and plants sprang form from the seed in one day; at unbelievable speed".

Like that would really help, huh?

Okay ... let's see if it will.

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Notice at this point that only Adam exists; Eve has not yet been created.

Now notice what happens:

Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Genesis 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

Now let's take stock.

First, there's no garden eastward in Eden; then God creates Adam on the 6th day; then God plants a garden and places Adam in it; then God creates Eve.

How much time has transpired in all of this?

Less than one day, since we know Eve too was created on the 6th day.

It was on the 6th day when God created Adam, it was on the 6th day when God planted a garden, it was on the 6th day when God placed Adam in this garden, and it was on the 6th day when God created Eve.

Biblical support that plants sprang from seeds in one day.

 

[dad]

Just post here again when you died, and I will cede this point.

Like you would be here to cede stuff?

For that is the important point: you WILL die. From out huge experience, we know that everyone dies. (@Jazer: No, John, you have not died. You were quite close... but the consequence of dying is being dead. If you are not dead, you haven't died.)

No. Never.

And I can make this prediction with utmost certainty: you will stop making claims of any kind the moment you die.

False.

So if you think "get saved from death" is something to strive for, I would adivse you to strive harder. Who knows, maybe you will be the first to achive that goal?

No. Elijah came and Moses to chat it up with John and company. Jesus came back. Lazarus too. He that believes in me said Jesus shall never die.

 

[dad]

You'd better read again. More carefully.

Why? What might I find??

Plus, Genesis 1 speaks of six YOM. From the earliest Christian writers there has been an awareness that YOM has multiple meanings and the context points to "undefined period of time" or "long epoch". In any case, "creation week" as six 24 hour days is just one TRADITIONAL INTERPRETATION. You are confusing potentially errant HUMAN INTERPRETATIONS with an inerrant BIBLE.

Nah. Baloney. The six days are evidently days. No way a plant could live long epochs with no sun.

Nothing stated in the Bible describes that trees were created full-grown or in an instantaneous manner. That is simply an assumption made by those who insist that they can be sure that YOM is referring only to a 24 hour day ---even though even in the same passages YOM is used to refer to "creation week" in its entirety! So even those who demand some sort of "literal" interpretation break their own rule with that one. Of course, most people who use the word "literal" have little idea what the word actually means.)

Great, so they were planted.

[And before we waste time rehashing "the evening and the morning" arguments, please save the effort and read some of the online commentaries. I get bored with covering the same ground again and again to debunk the whole "must be 24 hour days" tradition. And check out the parallel usage in Joel 6.]

Creation week was a week, that is the strongest and best reading. Get on topic.

 

[dad]

Why would that matter? You have plants bursting from the ground in a day with no biblical evidence that it all occurred in one day. They could last "as long as you want it to" apparently...

I think what would help is if you could find the verse that says "and plants sprang form from the seed in one day; at unbelievable speed".

In the bible, the plants came befoore the sun. Obviously it matters how long it took the sun to get on the scene.

 

[Elendur]

Like that would really help, huh?

Okay ... let's see if it will.

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Notice at this point that only Adam exists; Eve has not yet been created.

Now notice what happens:

Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Genesis 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

Now let's take stock.

First, there's no garden eastward in Eden; then God creates Adam on the 6th day; then God plants a garden and places Adam in it; then God creates Eve.

How much time has transpired in all of this?

Less than one day, since we know Eve too was created on the 6th day.

It was on the 6th day when God created Adam, it was on the 6th day when God planted a garden, it was on the 6th day when God placed Adam in this garden, and it was on the 6th day when God created Eve.

Biblical support that plants sprang from seeds in one day.

The word plant can refer to both planting seeds and planting vegetation, or am I mistaken?

 

[dad]

...
It was on the 6th day when God created Adam, it was on the 6th day when God planted a garden, ....
The word plant can refer to both planting seeds and planting vegetation, or am I mistaken?

By the way, do you have support for the claim that the garden was planted in day 6? I kind of assumed it was the day plants were made?

 

[Elendur]

By the way, do you have support for the claim that the garden was planted in day 6? I kind of assumed it was the day plants were made?

It wasn't me who stated the garden was planted on day 6.

 

[Farinata]

Why am I suddenly reminded of this scene?

Grigory taught him to read and write and, when he was twelve, began teaching him the Scriptures. But that immediately went nowhere. One day, at only the second or third lesson, the boy suddenly grinned. "What is it?" asked Grigory, looking at him sternly from under his spectacles. "Nothing, sir. The Lord God created light on the first day, and the sun, moon, and stars on the fourth day. Where did the light shine from on the first day?" Grigory was dumbfounded. The boy looked derisively at his teacher; there was even something supercilious in his look. Grigory could not help himself. "I'll show you where!" he shouted, and gave his pupil a violent blow on the cheek.

 

[AV1611VET]

The word plant can refer to both planting seeds and planting vegetation, or am I mistaken?

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

 

[Elendur]

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Very well, I'm convinced. The bible says he planted the seeds and grew them to trees.

 

[AV1611VET]

Very well, I'm convinced. The bible says he planted the seeds and grew them to trees.

-- Yup.

Think about it.

God created all the flora on the earth in just a moment of time, except for the Garden of Eden itself, which He personally spent more time and effort in doing.

Why?

He built the chapel that Adam and Eve got married in!

Isn't love wonderful!