Different state past

[rambot]

No evidence for heaven or the tribulation that is physical either. No evidence for your same state past either...so? The kind of evidence we do have you wave off.x

http://splitmerge.webs.com/split.pdf
There is mention of many things that happened that could not happen under our present nature...long lives for example.
[/quote]Silly thing is just because human's lived a long time didn't mean there were no such thing as gamma rays.

I did NOT want to debate the science with you; ONLY Blibical examples. So... .what'd you got?

 

[Incariol]

Why do you guys persist in even trying to talk to dad? All he does is spew arguments from ignorance over and over and over.

 

[dad]

Silly thing is just because human's lived a long time didn't mean there were no such thing as gamma rays.

Keep us posted on all the things there and not there to achieve 1000 year lives now.

I did NOT want to debate the science with you; ONLY Blibical examples. So... .what'd you got?

You can't debate science. And the link had several examples of a different nature. What about it?? Fast plant growth for example?

 

[dad]

Why do you guys persist in even trying to talk to dad? All he does is spew arguments from ignorance over and over and over.

Because he is more interesting than an empty whiner with some unstated political agenda?

 

[dad]

And you have failed totally to provide anything in the here and now that supports your position.

God! As well as the limits of man's knowledge.

No, you're guessing that there are others for which there are no evidence.

No. I am looking at the word of God. Eternity does not consist of some present state set of reactions. Get serious.

Your entire idea seems to be nothing but guesses.

Maybe I present it too humbly. Here is the krux of the matter....it rules.

We'd all be dead if the temperature of molten rock was as high as it is today, we'd all be dead? Wow, it's a good thing that the temperature of molten rock isn't as high as it is today, or... Wait, it IS as high as it is today! And there are no people dying from it either!

It is a good thing that the separation of the continents after the flood did not produce killing heat, yes. Also a good thing that the creation week separation of land and water on the planet also did not.

You claim that the idea that we can measure seismic waves traveling through the Earth to learn what the interior of the Earth is like... is silly?

Yes. Very. So?

Then what causes it?

Man doesn't know. Is it hard to admit not knowing for you? That could lead people to make stuff up in pride...careful.

I'm sorry, I thought you said that the state has changed only once. How many times has the state changed, dad?

Well there were big changes at the fall too. But apparently man still saw a nature that was different even then, than it is now. So the change we are looking at is post flood.

Yes it is.

False. Prove it then? The center of the planet is unknown to man. Be honest.

Then they'd only show a few thousand years of decay, wouldn't they? They'd only show the decay that occurred since the beginning of the present state.

Bingo! The rest of the daughter material or any other then, would have had to have already been here. Elementary. So?

And you imagine that they were different. Do you have any evidence that what you propose is possible?

Do you have any evidence that what I propose was not possible?

Then if the rate of the drips has always been one drip per second, and the dripping has only been going on for an hour, how exactly would the bucket be full?

The dripping did not start until the present state did! The bucket was already nearly full.

God gave us this wonderful thing called reality. Why do you not look at that?

OK, I will look. Show it to us..?

In other words, you can't. You can't provide a single shred of even the flimsiest evidence for your position.

No. I present ALL history and bible. That is all the evidence. It opposes your fantasies. Ever wonder why?

Also, you are at risk of hellfire for calling me a fool, as per Matthew 5:22.

False. I talked of people in general...


"I say only a fool or a truly uniformed person could disagree."

Sorry you seem to wear that so well. But if you are informed, then inform us of the proof for that elusive same state past?

Excuse me? You've really gotta stop reading what you want to read and instead read what is actually there. Where did I ever say that the earliest ice layers are gone? We have ice layers that go back to about 800,000 years.

So you now think that the earliest ice layers represent only less than a million of your same state imaginary years!!!? Ha. Take me to your leader...maybe he can debate.

It applies to any water that was in a liquid state and then froze while on the surface of the Earth.

Ridiculous. Can you tell us what water back then from space back then or the core of the earth back then would do when fast frozen in a different state!!!?? Come on now.

 

[Tiberius]

God! As well as the limits of man's knowledge.

In other words, you look at something you don't understand and then fill in the blanks by saying "Goddidit."

No. I am looking at the word of God. Eternity does not consist of some present state set of reactions. Get serious.

There's nothing in the Bible to support what you are saying.

Maybe I present it too humbly. Here is the krux of the matter....it rules.

It makes me laugh, is what it does.

Your idea tells us absolutely nothing about the world.

It is a good thing that the separation of the continents after the flood did not produce killing heat, yes. Also a good thing that the creation week separation of land and water on the planet also did not.

What an amazing coincidence.

Yes. Very. So?

It shows your complete ignorance of a vast amount of science.

Man doesn't know. Is it hard to admit not knowing for you? That could lead people to make stuff up in pride...careful.

Once again, you claim that science is wrong, yet you cannot say why it was different, what caused it to be different, how different it was, what was different and what was the same... You can tell us NOTHING, and that's all you'll ever have.

Well there were big changes at the fall too. But apparently man still saw a nature that was different even then, than it is now. So the change we are looking at is post flood.

So there were two changes now?

False. Prove it then? The center of the planet is unknown to man. Be honest.

I have been. You are too blinded by your preconceptions to actually lift your head, look at reality, see the work done by others and understand why it works.

Bingo! The rest of the daughter material or any other then, would have had to have already been here. Elementary. So?

So, it would have already decayed and we wouldn't see any of it!

Do you have any evidence that what I propose was not possible?

Is this your best argument? You haven't got a shred of evidence. Learn about the burden of proof, because right now it has crushed you beneath it.

The dripping did not start until the present state did! The bucket was already nearly full.

What filled it? I don't know of anyone who makes buckets with water already in them.

OK, I will look. Show it to us..?

I've been doing that in every single post. You've been too blinded by your preconceptions to see it.

No. I present ALL history and bible. That is all the evidence. It opposes your fantasies. Ever wonder why?

You have NOTHING from history that supports your argument. You've never presented an event from history and showed how it could only be possible in a different state. And you have not presented anything from the Bible either. You have done nothing but make claims.

False. I talked of people in general...

"I say only a fool or a truly uniformed person could disagree."

No, you said anyone who disagreed with you was a fool. I disagree, therefore you are calling me a fool, and you are in danger of hellfire as per Matthew 5:22.

Sorry you seem to wear that so well. But if you are informed, then inform us of the proof for that elusive same state past?

Already have done. But as usual, you... blinded... preconceptions...

So you now think that the earliest ice layers represent only less than a million of your same state imaginary years!!!? Ha. Take me to your leader...maybe he can debate.

I'm sorry, do you think the flood was more than 800,000 years ago?

Ridiculous. Can you tell us what water back then from space back then or the core of the earth back then would do when fast frozen in a different state!!!?? Come on now.

Can you show me that it would be any different to what happens today?

What can you tell us about the past state, dad? Could you burn wood in the past state? Could birds fly? Did fish swim or did they walk on land? Who knows what things were like in the past state! You certainly don't seem to know!

 

[Incariol]

Because he is more interesting than an empty whiner with some unstated political agenda?

You consider yourself more interesting than Mitt Romney? What the heck?

I personally rather doubt that.

 

[dad]

You consider yourself more interesting than Mitt Romney? What the heck?

I personally rather doubt that.

I don't listen to Mitt. I have read a few of your posts.

 

[dad]

In other words, you look at something you don't understand and then fill in the blanks by saying "Goddidit."

I look at what science doesn't understand or even cover. Then I say..you don't know. Your opinions of how the unknown is, or your opinions of what angels have said about the unknown don't matter.

There's nothing in the Bible to support what you are saying.

Yes there is as a matter of fact. This world shall pass away, and heavens. It is not in an eternal state.

It makes me laugh, is what it does.

Your idea tells us absolutely nothing about the world.

Which idea?

What an amazing coincidence.

No. No luck involved.

It shows your complete ignorance of a vast amount of science.

Science you cannot post here. Like I believe you.

Once again, you claim that science is wrong, yet you cannot say why it was different, what caused it to be different, how different it was, what was different and what was the same... You can tell us NOTHING, and that's all you'll ever have.

The differences resulted in many things that the bible talks about. With all the islands moving away and ceasing to exist in the tribulation, we can deduce a massive continental land movement. Yet again, without the killing heat. Let's face it, your present laws won't apply any more than they did.

So there were two changes now?

The curse at the fall resulted in a lot of things, yes. It was a change. However man still lived under a set of laws and forces that were quite different than today. Spirits, apparently, for example married and lived with people.

So, it would have already decayed and we wouldn't see any of it!

If there was no decay...what would have decayed?? Be clear. You are rambling.

Is this your best argument? You haven't got a shred of evidence. Learn about the burden of proof, because right now it has crushed you beneath it.

Actually, the claim for certain precise laws and forces comes from you. The claim that history was different comes from God and observers of long ago. You bear the burden. I have the evidence of the records.

What filled it? I don't know of anyone who makes buckets with water already in them.

Creation started off with a lot of things.

You have NOTHING from history that supports your argument. You've never presented an event from history and showed how it could only be possible in a different state. And you have not presented anything from the Bible either. You have done nothing but make claims.

False. The spirits of Egypt living with men and even ruling, and the long life spans of Sumer.

No, you said anyone who disagreed with you was a fool. I disagree, therefore you are calling me a fool, and you are in danger of hellfire as per Matthew 5:22.

Jesus and the apostles and prophets talked against unbelieving groups of people. Nations, false prophets etc etc. The verse you cite speaks of a person calling a brother a fool if I recall.

I'm sorry, do you think the flood was more than 800,000 years ago?

Of your imaginary years or real time? I would think that if the flood was when the ice age started, then the lowest levels would represent that time.

Can you show me that it would be any different to what happens today?

You made the bubble claim. So, what experiments of inner earth water coming up have you done, or water from deepest space? How did you replicate the former state and determine how many bubbles per sq foot there ought to be?? Come on now.

What can you tell us about the past state, dad? Could you burn wood in the past state? Could birds fly? Did fish swim or did they walk on land? Who knows what things were like in the past state! You certainly don't seem to know!

Birds including giant ones could fly. Science now has to have some birds that lived long ago jumping off a hill or mountain to acheive flight!!! When fish started to multiply as commanded, and fill the earth, they would have spread out from Eden area. With rapid evolving in the former state, sure, some would see a need to get over land...! So?

 

[rambot]

You can't debate science. And the link had several examples of a different nature. What about it?? Fast plant growth for example?

I'm not GOING to debate the science dad; I cannot be more clear with you. There are other posters here who, for whatever reason, will try to engage you on that field. I will not.

You haven't proven, nor provided evidence for a different past state (this concept of providing evidence seems lost on you....so why should I bother debating science?). So let's stick with what I had asked in the last post.

I'm not sure how I can make that more clear. I'm trying to stoop to your intellectual level here and hope that you would lay out your Biblical evidence for this idea. I couldn't even think of Biblical passages that allude to how things were different. So why not start with that.

 

[Tiberius]

I look at what science doesn't understand or even cover. Then I say..you don't know. Your opinions of how the unknown is, or your opinions of what angels have said about the unknown don't matter.

However, you are claiming that one of the things science doesn't understand is the interior structure of the Earth. This is wrong.

Yes there is as a matter of fact. This world shall pass away, and heavens. It is not in an eternal state.

I don't see how that proves that the past was different.

Which idea?

Are you really incapable of following a conversation? Your idea that the world was in a different state in the past! What did you think I meant? Your idea about chocolate potatoes?

No. No luck involved.

You need to learn what sarcasm is...

Science you cannot post here. Like I believe you.

I have posted it. You're just too blinded by your... wait, I feel like I've said this before...

The differences resulted in many things that the bible talks about. With all the islands moving away and ceasing to exist in the tribulation, we can deduce a massive continental land movement. Yet again, without the killing heat. Let's face it, your present laws won't apply any more than they did.

Yeah, come back and tell me this again when it actually happens. Maybe then I'll believe you. Until then, all you're doing is making wild claims and giving me absolutely no reason to believe you.

The curse at the fall resulted in a lot of things, yes. It was a change. However man still lived under a set of laws and forces that were quite different than today. Spirits, apparently, for example married and lived with people.

So there was one change at the fall and the other change during the flood?

If there was no decay...what would have decayed?? Be clear. You are rambling.

You seem to be reading what you want to read, NOT what I am actually saying.

I am saying that if the daughter material had been in the rocks we test right from the get go, then it would have decayed completely in the length of time that the world has been in the present state. This has not happened. Thus you are wrong.

Actually, the claim for certain precise laws and forces comes from you. The claim that history was different comes from God and observers of long ago. You bear the burden. I have the evidence of the records.

No, it comes from you. You are the one claiming they are different. And yet you can't tell HOW they were different.

Creation started off with a lot of things.

Speculation.

False. The spirits of Egypt living with men and even ruling, and the long life spans of Sumer.

Provide evidence for these claims.

Jesus and the apostles and prophets talked against unbelieving groups of people. Nations, false prophets etc etc. The verse you cite speaks of a person calling a brother a fool if I recall.

Once again a believer hides behind interpretation so they can believe whatever they want to...

Of your imaginary years or real time? I would think that if the flood was when the ice age started, then the lowest levels would represent that time.

Then since the lowest levels are from 800,000 years ago, that must be when the flood was.

You made the bubble claim. So, what experiments of inner earth water coming up have you done, or water from deepest space? How did you replicate the former state and determine how many bubbles per sq foot there ought to be?? Come on now.

Water = one oxygen atom and two hydrogen atoms. You have any evidence to show that water is different in other places?

Birds including giant ones could fly. Science now has to have some birds that lived long ago jumping off a hill or mountain to acheive flight!!!

Prove that there were giant birds long ago that could fly. Show me their bones.

When fish started to multiply as commanded, and fill the earth, they would have spread out from Eden area. With rapid evolving in the former state, sure, some would see a need to get over land...! So?

Fish that could walk over land lived back then, and since that was a different state, that doesn't happen anymore?

Like this?

Oh, but that's in the PRESENT state, isn't it? I guess there hasn't been a change of states after all.

Dad, come back when you;ve got more than speculation, okay?

 

[CabVet]

So, how about presenting some evidence for that different state past?

 

[CabVet]

Like this?

Oh, but that's in the PRESENT state, isn't it? I guess there hasn't been a change of states after all.

Dad, come back when you;ve got more than speculation, okay?

Hey, I love fish! How about this one?

 

[dad]

I'm not GOING to debate the science dad; I cannot be more clear with you. There are other posters here who, for whatever reason, will try to engage you on that field. I will not.

So what would you like to talk about...the tooth fairy?

You haven't proven, nor provided evidence for a different past state (this concept of providing evidence seems lost on you....so why should I bother debating science?). So let's stick with what I had asked in the last post.

Like you could. Come on now. Bring it.

I'm not sure how I can make that more clear. I'm trying to stoop to your intellectual level here and hope that you would lay out your Biblical evidence for this idea. I couldn't even think of Biblical passages that allude to how things were different. So why not start with that.

Get a gander of this...
Home - A Journey of Discovery

 

[dad]

However, you are claiming that one of the things science doesn't understand is the interior structure of the Earth. This is wrong.

No. I guarantee it is right.

I don't see how that proves that the past was different.

Within a biblical context what could be more clear?

Are you really incapable of following a conversation? Your idea that the world was in a different state in the past! What did you think I meant? Your idea about chocolate potatoes?

The different state past is easy to support. Get off the biscuit

I have posted it. You're just too blinded by your... wait, I feel like I've said this before...

False. Ask a lurker. Ask anyone to point to where you proved a same state past. I mean that.

Yeah, come back and tell me this again when it actually happens. Maybe then I'll believe you. Until then, all you're doing is making wild claims and giving me absolutely no reason to believe you.

Then you admit that within the bible...the future is as I say. OK. Without the bible...forget it! You have no clue.

So there was one change at the fall and the other change during the flood?

Not in the forces and laws on earth, necessarily. There were changes at the fall, but perhaps no universal.

I am saying that if the daughter material had been in the rocks we test right from the get go, then it would have decayed completely in the length of time that the world has been in the present state. This has not happened. Thus you are wrong.

Absurd. You test from the get go!!!!? What a scream. All testing is fairly recent. If daughter material was there already you could not know. Get a grip.

No, it comes from you. You are the one claiming they are different. And yet you can't tell HOW they were different.

Name a law of force you want to look at?

Once again a believer hides behind interpretation so they can believe whatever they want to...

Not really. Want to get down and dirty on the bible commentaries on that verse?

Then since the lowest levels are from 800,000 years ago, that must be when the flood was.

If that were true, and much of the lowest level remained, bingo. So?

Water = one oxygen atom and two hydrogen atoms. You have any evidence to show that water is different in other places?

Don't forget to add your gas bubbles now.

Prove that there were giant birds long ago that could fly. Show me their bones.

"Despite its massive flight muscles and 21-foot (6.4-meter) wingspan, the giant bird probably could not generate enough lift to take off from a level surface, according to a new study. "

Largest Flying Bird Could Barely Get off Ground, Fossils Show

Fish that could walk over land lived back then, and since that was a different state, that doesn't happen anymore?

It can happen now. So? The point was why the adapting first took place.

 

[Tiberius]

Yeah, I'm not going to register for that website, dad.

Did you make it yourself?

 

[dad]

Yeah, I'm not going to register for that website, dad.

Did you make it yourself?

Me either. But it happens to be where a few tidbits of info on the DSP are located. Reading is all that is needed.

 

[CabVet]

Me either. But it happens to be where a few tidbits of info on the DSP are located. Reading is all that is needed.

How about you copy and paste some of that "evidence" here? I am not going to pay to see it either.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Maybe your apparent 8 hour shift at work only lasted 2 minutes, and you have a lot more to do before pay day?

 

[rambot]

So what would you like to talk about...the tooth fairy?

I've written it three times and you still don't understand.
I'm getting a feeling that a discussion with you, on any topic, is not going to be anything short of a head bashing session.

Like you could. Come on now. Bring it.

So, for the fourth time, you have no scientific leg to stand on. You claim science can only know what is hapenning right now (never mind that you have yet to even define what "right now" or "present" even mean). So the confidence with which you approach this debate is actually quite funny.

Get a gander of this...
Home - A Journey of Discovery

Holy cow!! You came close to getting what I wanted after my having to ask only 3 times!!!
The guy spends large tracts of his article talking about the future. He certainly doesn't offer much sound Biblical support for a past different state.

I'd love it if that guy sat down with this guy so that their two literal translations of the Creation Story would come down to a more similar message (which makes me laugh that two LITERAL translations come to such completely different conclusions:

Genesis 1: The Literal Interpretation of the Creation Account