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Again you show ignorance of what proof means.You have no prooof of the same state past that you claim. Objective and subjective are relative terms in practice of science.
Science isn't about proof. That is one reason they can't prove a present state existed in the past. They are all about belief only. They bellieve in a present state and base models of the past and future on that. The evidence can be interpreted either way, and often best fits a DSP... what proof means.
I've lost count of how many times I've told you now. Of course science isn't about proof (except math, and that's under strictly controlled models).Science isn't about proof. That is one reason they can't prove a present state existed in the past. They are all about belief only. They bellieve in a present state and base models of the past and future on that. The evidence can be interpreted either way, and often best fits a DSP.
The observers who lived and left records agree with a different past. God also does. You are in a losing position that cannot prevail.
What was it you thought the point was? Maybe we should rent a psychic to probe your mind?
Legends of a flood abound.
Or what it says! So where does that leave it?
All science. You name it. I have never seen any science that opposes it.
Where? Sample??
Man's wisdom is foolishness to God.
No such thing as dates from that just dreams. Do you think that that method dates stuff say 5000 years old?? No. It is ALL in fantasy land, and a gross misreading of where isotopes came from.
No. You look at how it is, and dream how it was based on that alone, while ignoring God and observers...on purpose no less.
Well, I think that demons have stars. So I suspect that a star may be more like the star of Bethlehem, than our sun. Remember, it guided men to a house!
Your real world doesn't exist in deep space.
I agree. You can't. Cause I am right.
Man still has nothing like the wheels Ezekiel saw! -God's wheels. God's wisdom is high above man.
No. You did no such thing. Nor will you.
Right. So?
Right. Some meaning maybe how much water trickled down since the time of the tilt. If we observed the water falling a certain time, then we can know that a certain amount fell! Simple.
Not is any way is that remotely close to a third cousin of the truth. We can know certain things about this state for as long as this state existed and we saw stuff. For example if we know that something decays into daughter material, at a certain rate, and we know this state existed for say, 4400 years, then we can say that a certain amount of the daughter material was produced by decay!
I am starting too wonder if you grasp some of these concepts.
Enough quibbling over terms. Just give us what you have call it evidence proof whatever. Fact is you are talking for nothing cause no one has proof for what was not here your present state past. Deal with it.I've lost count of how many times I've told you now. Of course science isn't about proof (except math, and that's under strictly controlled models).
You still don't understand the term proof.
And yes, evidence can be interpreted either way, but no, it doesn't fit DSP best.
False. You have rates and ratios, and silly assumptions that daughter materials were all here already. Argument from ignorance.The point was that somehow we have rock samples that radiodate to millions of years old. You've never been able to explain how this is possible. Every single time you've tried, you've used flawed science.
he had kids. They remembered stories.And how can we possibly have so many different stories of a global flood if Noah and his family were the only survivors? There are NO accounts of a global flood that agree with the Bible's account.
Mountain building. It agrees with a post flood rapid continental movement. Such a rapid move is not possible in the present state.Oh no, dad. Be specific. Pick some bit of science and explain in detail how it supports a DSP. You;ve never done this because you can't.
OK get one. Then show what stuff in it you think helps your case.Any Cretacious rock will do, but there are lots of others.
Not the pre tilt past.So, you said that the tennis balls cannot tell us anything about the past.
Yes the post tilt past!And yet now you say the tennis balls CAN tell us something about the past.
Easy. They had stuff when our state started. How many imaginary millions or billions of years that stuff 'would take' to produce based on present state rates is meaningless.And yet, oif this was true, it leaves us with the question of why all these rocks have EXACTLY the amount of daughter isotopes, granddaughter isotopes etc that we would expect to see if they were millions of years old.
And. Again. You show you don't understand the term proof.Enough quibbling over terms. Just give us what you have call it evidence proof whatever. Fact is you are talking for nothing cause no one has proof for what was not here your present state past. Deal with it.
False. You have rates and ratios, and silly assumptions that daughter materials were all here already. Argument from ignorance.
he had kids. They remembered stories.
Mountain building. It agrees with a post flood rapid continental movement. Such a rapid move is not possible in the present state.
OK get one. Then show what stuff in it you think helps your case.
Not the pre tilt past.
Yes the post tilt past!
Easy. They had stuff when our state started. How many imaginary millions or billions of years that stuff 'would take' to produce based on present state rates is meaningless.
And. Again. You show you don't understand the term proof.
It's not quibbling, it's of the most importance to actually start talking. You're making the same mistakes over and over again.
When you get some of this stuff you bandy about, get back to us. There is none for a same state past of any sort whatsoever, absolutely zero. So I will stick with God, thanks.
If you would learn those three terms along with the concept epistemology you would avoid almost all of your major mistakes.
So, I encourage you to learn these three definitions:
Proof
Objective evidence
Subjective evidence
And this concept:
Epistemology
I won't start posting evidence again until you've understood the term.
Deal with it.
What's your game..ignore the repeated answers and cut and paste the same question? Get serious. The stuff was here already apparently for the most part, and engaged in doing what stuff does in the former state.Ah, but you've never answered how all these rocks could have the ratios we'd expect to see if they were the result of millions of years of decay if they WEREN'T the result of millions of years of decay!
Ever passed a story around a group of people and watched how the last person to hear the whispered story tells it? Now add pagan bias, and etc...and presto.Then why are there so many differences between the stories?
Or short. Either one.Only if you insist that such mountains were formed in a short space of time. There is no evidence for this limitation. If a long period of time is allowed, then the processes we see today explain it very nicely.
No I realize that science has been assuming a SSP in order to show there was a SSP. Literally. I assume science doesn't know, and when we assume God's state then all evidence fits.In other words, you are assuming a DSP in order to show there was a DSP. Circular logic!
Easy, they are ll in this world, which means present state. Therefore whatever pattern came down from the former state, would be applicable.I will get several from many different parts of the world, point out that they all have EXACTLY THE SAME RATIOS OF PARENT ISOTOPE TO DAUGHTER ISOTOPE and then ask you how this could possibly be.
Noo because the tilt in the tennis ball mental experiment represented the nature change.Ah, but we were talking about different states, weren't we? Now you are changing your tune!
In similar rocks, we would expect similar amounts of daughter materials. Both then and now. The only difference perhaps being that the daughter material is only a decay product in this state.Ah, so all of them SOMEHOW had exactly the right amount of daughter isotopes, and granddaughter isotopes to match perfectly with what we'd expect to see if they had decayed radioactively?
Right, we are talking about the nuclear forces and spin, and gravity, and etc etc etc. If these change in earth, naturally the effect is all over. The result being that the forces after the change resulted in what we see today going on.And bear in mind, we aren't talking about a single worldwide event that could produce this. I'm talking about EVERY SINGLE rock! Of any kind! All of them, somehow had the exact ratio set up to make it look like they decayed radioactively, even though they didn't!
Why would I need to present the evidence yet again? You will just hand wave it aways with your flawed understanding of the term.When you get some of this stuff you bandy about, get back to us. There is none for a same state past of any sort whatsoever, absolutely zero. So I will stick with God, thanks.
What's your game..ignore the repeated answers and cut and paste the same question? Get serious. The stuff was here already apparently for the most part, and engaged in doing what stuff does in the former state.
Ever passed a story around a group of people and watched how the last person to hear the whispered story tells it? Now add pagan bias, and etc...and presto.
Or short. Either one.
No I realize that science has been assuming a SSP in order to show there was a SSP. Literally. I assume science doesn't know, and when we assume God's state then all evidence fits.
Easy, they are ll in this world, which means present state. Therefore whatever pattern came down from the former state, would be applicable.
Noo because the tilt in the tennis ball mental experiment represented the nature change.
In similar rocks, we would expect similar amounts of daughter materials. Both then and now. The only difference perhaps being that the daughter material is only a decay product in this state.
Right, we are talking about the nuclear forces and spin, and gravity, and etc etc etc. If these change in earth, naturally the effect is all over. The result being that the forces after the change resulted in what we see today going on.
You don't. We all know what state we are in. Just clam up about any fables of the future or far past.Why would I need to present the evidence yet again? You will just hand wave it aways with your flawed understanding of the term.
The daughter material was here already in my current opiniion. That covers it.I can't ignore something you;ve never provided.
Of course things decayed for 4400 years. Not a real big 'entire length' for the decay process!Your explanation is flawed because if you were right, then those pre-existing daughter materials would have decayed for the entire length of the present state, and we would be seeing that the ratios are off from what we would expect.
No. Those sort of embellishments or separate flood myths are not important.But we wouldn't expect to see some versions of the stories that say people survived by climbing tall mountains to stay above the flood, and some versions that say that no one survived, would we? I mean, that's a bit of a big error to get in there!
No. Because I accept that mountain building and continent separation was fast. One can look at the evidence from science either way.Well, at least now you are accepting that an old universe that has always had the present state would produce everything that we see.
Fortunately, your SSP has no credible evidence, or any at all in fact! The record of man and God concur with me.Unfortunately, your DSP has no credible evidence.
There is no way to test the present state past you require so by your admission it is not science. I agree.Given that there are so many different versions of Christianity alone, let alone all the other religious beliefs, it would seem that there is no way to test this evidence you present. There are ways to test all of science. That's why it is science.
If they are here, then they are in the present state!They are what in this world?
So then why did you say that it was possible to learn about the past from the way they were tilted if we were always talking about a DSP?
Because like gravity, the laws that work on all earth rocks are what counts.Why would we expect similar amounts if the rocks are created by different means in different places at different times?
And there you go again.You don't. We all know what state we are in. Just clam up about any fables of the future or far past.
It would be a crime against reason itself to call anything you posted evidence for a same state past or future. You are welcome to your beliefs.Why would I need to present the evidence yet again? You will just hand wave it aways with your flawed understanding of the term.
Absurd. Just add the amount of daughter material produced in this state by decay TO the stuff already here. This might help...a little math... X + Y = P (where X is the daughter here already, and Y is the daughter material produced in this state, and P is what we see in the Present!Your explanation is flawed because if you were right, then those pre-existing daughter materials would have decayed for the entire length of the present state, and we would be seeing that the ratios are off from what we would expect.
Name one!? Let's see if it is old as the hills....But we wouldn't expect to see some versions of the stories that say people survived by climbing tall mountains to stay above the flood, and some versions that say that no one survived, would we? I mean, that's a bit of a big error to get in there!
False. It can be explained that way, and has been. But it is flawed to the core.Well, at least now you are accepting that an old universe that has always had the present state would produce everything that we see.All history and God's communication to man actually. What you want to mislabel credible is of no consequence.Unfortunately, your DSP has no credible evidence.
Test a state of the future or past by a bible case? That is easy. I do it. No one can refute it. End of story. It rulesGiven that there are so many different versions of Christianity alone, let alone all the other religious beliefs, it would seem that there is no way to test this evidence you present. There are ways to test all of science. That's why it is science.
Oh darn, this is looking familiar...I think I answered this post already. Oh well, there is some new light in this reply so let's keep it and post it then..
Name any piece of evidence and learn why.And there you go again.
Can you present an argument, based on the definition of evidence, why there is no evidence of a same state past?
You need to accept that science doesn't know the state and laws of the past. Period.If you don't I just have to accept that you're avoiding the issue and admitting to your inability to understand this basic term.
The daughter material was here already in my current opiniion. That covers it.
Of course things decayed for 4400 years. Not a real big 'entire length' for the decay process!
No. Those sort of embellishments or separate flood myths are not important.
No. Because I accept that mountain building and continent separation was fast. One can look at the evidence from science either way.
Fortunately, your SSP has no credible evidence, or any at all in fact! The record of man and God concur with me.
There is no way to test the present state past you require so by your admission it is not science. I agree.
If they are here, then they are in the present state!
We could learn if we knew the situation before this state started. To some small degree we also can know just in this state certain things. For example, if the rates are known, we can know that 4400 year worth of decay daughter material was produced.
Because like gravity, the laws that work on all earth rocks are what counts.
Absurd. Just add the amount of daughter material produced in this state by decay TO the stuff already here. This might help...a little math... X + Y = P (where X is the daughter here already, and Y is the daughter material produced in this state, and P is what we see in the Present!
And isn't it amazing that the value of X is exactly what we'd expect to see if it was all Y!
Name one!? Let's see if it is old as the hills....
Flood myths.
False. It can be explained that way, and has been. But it is flawed to the core.
If it has been, it hasn't been by you.
All history and God's communication to man actually. What you want to mislabel credible is of no consequence.
Exceot what we have was written by man, not God.
Test a state of the future or past by a bible case? That is easy. I do it. No one can refute it. End of story. It rules
You miss the point...
Oh darn, this is looking familiar...I think I answered this post already. Oh well, there is some new light in this reply so let's keep it and post it then..
You may have replied to it, but you never gave an answer. Just flawed logic.
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