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Different state past (2)

Elendur

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SkyWriting said:
The posts of people are ignored for a host of reasons:

Attitude
Value
Time constraints
Interest
Duplicated points
Duplicated points
The amount of time needed to formulate a good answer
The interest in forming a good answer
and lastly, the value of leaving dumb questions unanswered.

My suggestion is always:

If somebody ignores your post or question,
then you have instantly won the argument
and can take full credit for trouncing them!
No questions asked.
Good to know, thanks for sharing. Especially that last part.
 
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Elendur

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There is. The bible and history and all evidences man has when looked at without a same state past belief.
Close, but not quite. I asked specifically for you to base the argument on the definition of 'evidence'.
I could settle for at least a reference (as in using the definition).

Edit:
I'm glad you actually took the time to respond to it though.
 
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rambot

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There is. The bible and history and all evidences man has when looked at without a same state past belief.
I SWEAR he gave this answer verbatim about 600 posts back to virtually the exact same question.

The simple fact is that dad believes that the bible and "history" (can't quite get big enough quotation marks there, I think), are ample evidence for his theory. That they are not sufficient evidence outside of his own mind is of no relevance to him.
That's why I stopped posting. But kudos to those who took the torch or the last few hundred pages....


Basically, dad's standard of evidence is completely different than anyone else who replied in the last 1000 posts.
 
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Tiberius

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Man, I wish they'd let you still use the quote button when replying to posts from the old thread...

But not about how well it works.

Mumba rockshelter, Tanzania

"Uranium/thorium dates of the deposits are between 70,000-40,000 years ago;"


"Despite its archaeological importance, however, the chronology of the site is poorly constrained,
despite the application since the 1980s [30 years worth] of several dating methods (radiocarbon, uranium-series and amino acid racemisation) to a variety of materials recovered from the deposits. "

And what exactly is the problem with that first website? You think all the deposits must have been laid down all at once? Do you think that because the deposits were laid down between 70 and 40 thousand years ago that it's a mistake when they say the archaeological levels were laid down between 49 to 46 thousand years ago?

As for your second source, it is true that there can be difficulty in dating some samples. This can happen when samples have been affected, but techniques are developed that can correct for this. Also bear in mind that the three different dating techniques used (carbon dating, uranium dating and amino acid racemisation are very different techniques, each suited to a different sample type.
 
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Tiberius

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Hey maybe on some other thread get someone that does. We can talk.

The information is freely available on the net. If you actually had any interest in learning (instead of just spouting your opinion as fact), you'd go and find it.

The claim that science doesn't know what the state of the past was is a mere observation, that can't be refuted.

It can be refuted, and I have refuted it. If you want to show why my refutation is flawed, you could answer those questions I asked in my previous post.

That's what you think. Only in the near past would it be valid, only as long as our state existed. (not even that long if collaboration of trees or corals is needed/used.

You can't even tell us what laws of nature were changed or how they were different. Don't come in here and say that you know enough about the different past state (if there was such a thing) to say that radioactive decay was different.

Never saw a dime spent on a same state past...you? Bizarre.

Anyone who pays to have radiometric dating done.

So, the petrochemical industry springs to mind. How much money do they spend a year on geological analyses?

Yes you can type stuff. Wow. How about..'I've been to Mars'? That might be a good sig too.

And apparently, you can't refute it.

Source? Details? How do you come up with an age exactly? The movement over the hot spot is no issue. Only when and how fast...in other words what state.

Source? Primary school level geology. As in, "The plate movement for Hawaii is X centimeters per year. Hawaii is currently Y kilometers from the hotspot. To travel Y kilometers and X centimeters per year will take Z years."

But, I'm going to humour you.

Let's say that you are right. There really was a dsp. And this meant that plate movement in the dsp was different to what it is today, so any age we get from looking at the plate movement and assuming it was the same in the past is wrong. And let's also assume that radioactive decay was different in the dsp as well (or even non-existent) so that when we radio date samples today we get wrong results.

Why oh why oh why would two such flawed methods give us the same result, dad?

I dare you to try to defend that nonsense!! Anytime.

That doesn't answer the question.

Try to see if you can detect several present state law requirements in the first sentence of your link..

Do you not see the flaw in assuming that your position is true in your attempt to prove your position is true?

Name the method the sample rock is consistent with? We can look at that.

Younger rocks are at the top. Older rocks are at the bottom. When we date the rocks at the top and the rocks at the bottom, the rocks at the top give ages younger than the rocks at the bottom.

Now, this is simple enough for a five year old to understand it.

And so, summing up, the bible indicates a different state past.

False. YOUR INTERPRETATION of the Bible indicates a DSP, and your interpretation is wrong.

Earliest history agrees by and large.

But we have no way of verifying those stories, do we?

The present state laws are required to give any meaning to radiactive decay dating, and we do not know what laws existed.

If we do not know what laws existed, then ANY laws could have existed - including the laws that we have today!

Three rings and coral dating depend on present laws too as does ALL methods so called science has used.

This is false, as I have explained countless times.

No proof of a same state past exists, rendering the anti bible cliams of so called science null and void.

God was right all along.....


Rejoice oh people of God.

I suspect you suffer from paranoia.
 
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Gottservant

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There are a set of truths which support what Dad is saying - they are mirrors of the words of Jesus, who said "No one knows the Day or the Hour, when the Son of Man shall return, not even the angels of Heaven, but the Father who is in Heaven." - I wonder if they mean anything to you:

No one knows the state or the equilibrium of the beginning, not even the most memorant, but the Creator who was before time.

No one knows the field or the stasis of the end, not even the most thoughtful, but the Spirit who will be in the Word.

No one knows the timing or the energy of the destruction of the end, not even the most powerful, but the Lord who is in Power.

In other words, there are limits to what we know: big surprise; but perhaps more importantly, the nature of what we know is not decided. I guess that is what Dad is riding on: that he knows we cannot decide and are foolish to pretend it is - is that unfair? I don't think so: it means we have to have faith! If it means you have to have faith: that's fair!
 
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Tiberius

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There are a set of truths which support what Dad is saying - they are mirrors of the words of Jesus, who said "No one knows the Day or the Hour, when the Son of Man shall return, not even the angels of Heaven, but the Father who is in Heaven." - I wonder if they mean anything to you:

No one knows the state or the equilibrium of the beginning, not even the most memorant, but the Creator who was before time.

No one knows the field or the stasis of the end, not even the most thoughtful, but the Spirit who will be in the Word.

No one knows the timing or the energy of the destruction of the end, not even the most powerful, but the Lord who is in Power.

In other words, there are limits to what we know: big surprise; but perhaps more importantly, the nature of what we know is not decided. I guess that is what Dad is riding on: that he knows we cannot decide and are foolish to pretend it is - is that unfair? I don't think so: it means we have to have faith! If it means you have to have faith: that's fair!

There is a set of testable, repeatable and verifiable evidence which shows that dad is wrong.

Until you can provide something which can withstand scrutiny like this, you have nothing.
 
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dad

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Was Jesus in your 'reality'? Was Adam? You need to be specific in what you think the term means before tossing it out as if it was on your side by some sort of osmosis or something. I mean I can say...'wings' but that doesn't mean I am an eagle.
 
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CabVet

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Was Jesus in your 'reality'? Was Adam? You need to be specific in what you think the term means before tossing it out as if it was on your side by some sort of osmosis or something. I mean I can say...'wings' but that doesn't mean I am an eagle.

Why are you so worried about science that you have to propose a "different state past" to make creation compatible with science? Why don't you just say that creation was a miracle?
 
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dad

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Why are you so worried about science that you have to propose a "different state past" to make creation compatible with science?

I did not propose a new heaven and earth...or a millennium...God did. He also informed man of the far past. God proposed. I concur. You oppose.
Why don't you just say that creation was a miracle?
It was. So? Does that mean heaven is in this state or the far past? No. Get a grip.
 
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Jamin4422

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plate movement
Gravity has an effect on plate movement. The reason the earth has a wobble is because of the gravity effect from the other planets. This is not consistent because sometimes the other planets are closer to the earth then at other times.
 
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Tiberius

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Was Jesus in your 'reality'? Was Adam? You need to be specific in what you think the term means before tossing it out as if it was on your side by some sort of osmosis or something. I mean I can say...'wings' but that doesn't mean I am an eagle.

No, Jesus was not in my reality (not the way he is described in the Bible.) They are in your fantasy.

And if you want me to be specific about what "reality" means when I use the word, the best explanation is sitting right outside your window. Go and have a look at it. It is what is really there, what really exists. What can be tested and verified by repeated tests. What withstands scrutiny.
 
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Tiberius

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Gravity has an effect on plate movement. The reason the earth has a wobble is because of the gravity effect from the other planets. This is not consistent because sometimes the other planets are closer to the earth then at other times.

Have you got a source for this? The moon has by far the largest gravitational influence on the Earth. That's what causes the tides. The sun comes next. But the planets are so far away that have virtually no influence at all on the tides. I find it hard to believe that something that can barely affect water is going to have a significant effect on solid rock.
 
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dad

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Source please?
If you do not know about the millennium or new heaven and earth, then you need more help than I can probably give on a science forum. Rev 21 speaks of the new heavens for example, and the reign of Christ in verse 4 in the chapter before...


4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years
 
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CabVet

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I did not propose a new heaven and earth...or a millennium...God did. He also informed man of the far past. God proposed. I concur. You oppose.
It was. So? Does that mean heaven is in this state or the far past? No. Get a grip.

Yes, you are now the word of God (according only to you, of course). No other Christian I know thinks that God proposed a "different state past", and I know lots of them. You are the one that should "get a grip", if creation was a miracle, it does not require a "different state past".
 
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