Different Degrees of Sin?

[chestertonrules]

What do protestants make of this from 1 John 5?

16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

 

[ittarter]

What do protestants make of this from 1 John 5?

As far as I am aware, Protestants admit to two "unforgivable" sins -- apostasy (according to Hebrews) and blaspheming the Holy Spirit (according to the Synoptics). They squirm a bit when they do so, of course.

I imagine 1 John 5 would fall into one of those categories, for most Protestants. Someone can correct me on this if I'm off.

 

[Stryder06]

What do protestants make of this from 1 John 5?

16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

I think you probably should have gone on to verse 18.John says in verse 18 that whosoever is born of God sinneth not... But the bible says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. John is saying that there is a difference between those of us who sin that. So is the bible contradicting itself? Absolutely not. What John is saying is that there is a difference between those who sin that are in Christ and those who sin that are not in Christ. When you have Jesus you have forgiveness. Thus when you sin it is not unto death, however those who sin that are without Christ are lost and destined for damnation.

 

[chestertonrules]

I think you probably should have gone on to verse 18.John says in verse 18 that whosoever is born of God sinneth not... But the bible says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. John is saying that there is a difference between those of us who sin that. So is the bible contradicting itself? Absolutely not. What John is saying is that there is a difference between those who sin that are in Christ and those who sin that are not in Christ. When you have Jesus you have forgiveness. Thus when you sin it is not unto death, however those who sin that are without Christ are lost and destined for damnation.

Thanks for your answer, but I think that is quite a stretch based on the passage I quoted and the addendum you added.

 

[Stryder06]

Thanks for your answer, but I think that is quite a stretch based on the passage I quoted and the addendum you added.

How so? John is speaking about sin and as such more than those 2 verses involve his explanation of this topic.

 

[chestertonrules]

How so? John is speaking about sin and as such more than those 2 verses involve his explanation of this topic.

He is referring to the nature of the sin, not the sinner, in this passage.

 

[ittarter]

Shouldn't this be in the hamartiology subforum?

 

[Hentenza]

Mod Hat On
​

Thread moved to Hamartiology from GT.​

 

[k2svpete]

You have to read the passage to gain the appropriate context on the matter. Just grabbing the two verses is insufficient.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

What do protestants make of this from 1 John 5?

16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

I am not ''protestant'' but this passage is speaking of Apostasy, check Hebrews 6:4-6.

 

[MrPolo]

I think you probably should have gone on to verse 18.John says in verse 18 that whosoever is born of God sinneth not... But the bible says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. John is saying that there is a difference between those of us who sin that. So is the bible contradicting itself? Absolutely not. What John is saying is that there is a difference between those who sin that are in Christ and those who sin that are not in Christ. When you have Jesus you have forgiveness. Thus when you sin it is not unto death, however those who sin that are without Christ are lost and destined for damnation.

I agree that the Bible does not contradict itself, but this is not a carte blanche for Christians to not worry about sinning because they have truly confessed Him and believed in their hearts at some point earlier in their lives. Among other passages, the parable of the vine and branches indeed teaches us that even those once in Christ can be cut off. And there are other verses in Scripture exhibiting the reality of different degrees of sin.

When the verse says whoever is born of God sinneth not is hyperbolic language in reference to Christians who avoid sin because they follow Christ.

 

[MamaZ]

I agree that the Bible does not contradict itself, but this is not a carte blanche for Christians to not worry about sinning because they have truly confessed Him and believed in their hearts at some point earlier in their lives. Among other passages, the parable of the vine and branches indeed teaches us that even those once in Christ can be cut off. And there are other verses in Scripture exhibiting the reality of different degrees of sin.

When the verse says whoever is born of God sinneth not is hyperbolic language in reference to Christians who avoid sin because they follow Christ.

I am sorry when the Apostles teach us through scripture that those who are born of God sins not it means what it says. For those born of God have His power in them to walk HIS way.. It is not an avoidance of sin. It is the Power of Christ in us to be set free from sin and death.

 

[MrPolo]

I am sorry when the Apostles teach us through scripture that those who are born of God sins not it means what it says. For those born of God have His power in them to walk HIS way.. It is not an avoidance of sin. It is the Power of Christ in us to be set free from sin and death.

If you're saying that those in Christ penitent of their sins have their sins washed away, then we agree. If you are saying you and every other Christian who made their profession of faith never committed a sin after that point, then that would contradict Scripture.

 

[MamaZ]

If you're saying that those in Christ penitent of their sins have their sins washed away, then we agree. If you are saying you and every other Christian who made their profession of faith never committed a sin after that point, then that would contradict Scripture.

What I am saying is those whom have the Spirit of Christ do not walk in lives of sin. Such as one does not continue in sin.. Why don't they.. Because they have God at work in them..For He causes us to walk His Way.

 

[BrotherHicks]

I am sorry when the Apostles teach us through scripture that those who are born of God sins not it means what it says. For those born of God have His power in them to walk HIS way.. It is not an avoidance of sin. It is the Power of Christ in us to be set free from sin and death.

AMEN!

 

[BrotherHicks]

Galatians 5:19-23
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

 

[JCFantasy23]

What do protestants make of this from 1 John 5?

16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

Yes, there are different degrees of sin. Many spiritual sins are worse than some of the fleshy sins. Some of the sins directed toward your walk with God more intensively are worse. There are different degrees of sin with murder even, in my opinion, as stated also in the bible. In addition, God looks at the heart than just the actions, so you have to look at people as individuals as well.

 

[cloudbyday90]

Oh, wow... okay. Degrees based on what? There are no measurements in the Bible.

Firstly: That Scripture (I John 5:16-17) actually means is this: When you comment the sin you can either ask for forgiveness (sin not unto death) or not ask for forgiveness and have that sin until you die (sin unto death).

Secondly: A person DOES NOT have to sin after they are saved. Romans 6

Remember: Sin is a willful transgression against the KNOWN will of God.

 

[caprice09]

Forgiveness is based on the confession of the sovereignty of the Word of God. Not merely seeking a "get out of hell free card" but truly submitting to the Word of God as truth, not only in terms of having the power of salvation but also instruction unto holiness. By accepting the "free gift" of salvation, you also confess the "example" by which we should strive to live, for both are the Word of God; by claiming the blessings spoken by God we also claim the commandments which were spoke by the same Word; by partaking of the blood you also partake of the body (becoming a member of the Church filled with the Holy Spirit which accomplishes our conversion to the Likeness of God in Christ...the blasphemy of which is apostasy and the sin unto death!).

"Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
(Rom 10:1-13)

"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
(Joh 6:28-29)

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
(Luk 6:46)

"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."
(Jam 4:17)

"And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him. Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them. But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him."
(Num 15:28-31)

"For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."
(Rom 7:14-25)

 

[TheManeki]

From years of observing and participating in discussions here at CF, I have come to the conclusion that at the very least the majority of Christians here believe there are different degrees of sin.

The typical division appears to be between a "major sin" and a "minor sin." A "major sin" is a sin which you commit but is not a temptation to me, while a "minor sin" is a sin you commit that I have either committed before or have been tempted to commit. It appears possible for a "major sin" to become a "minor" one, but I have not seen cases of it occurring the other way 'round.