Different debate, guns. toy guns vs real guns

[Billnew]

Before you click on the link, you have 1-2 seconds to decide if the gun your looking at is real or fake, you bet your life on your decision.

colored real firearms - Bing Images

real gun.jpg (63.8 KB
If someone pulled one of those guns out, would you know for sure they were fake?

How about the all pink Ak-47. Real.

If you remove the orange band on the end, would police know it was a toy? If you paint an orange ban on a gun, will they not shoot because they think its a toy?

Will the people with these colorful guns have to shoot a criminal because they don't believe they are real?
Will cops get shot because they hesitated thinking a colorful gun was a toy?

The technology is out there, banning won't work.
I don't like the colorful guns, but people do.

 

[JohnLocke]

"All guns are loaded"

Instead of hoping that criminals won't get wise to the idea of painting their guns to look like toys, why don't we just teach our children basic firearm safety?

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Since I'm from NE ohio, I think I know where he got the idea for this thread.

Cleveland police officer fatally shoots 12-year-old Tamir Rice: The Big Story | cleveland.com

Some poor kid got shot thinking its fun pointing a toy gun at a cop, the problem is that he removed the orange part identifying it as a aisoft gun and thus paid the price when the cop decided to defend himself. Such a tragedy.

People need to teach kids to not modify their toys to look real.

Most people own black or chrome colored guns. So a alarm would be raised if a black gun was raised at you than a pink one, most likely.

 

[Billnew]

Yes that was the origin.
That child was suicide by cop imho.
But from both sides, how do you tell a toy from a real gun with the ones in the post?

I agree. Teaching kids not to point a gun, toy or real at anyone except for playing with a toy with people that know its a toy.
Remember, city kids don't get firearm education, unless their parents are pro-gun.
So many new guns don't look like real guns, some of the proto-types don't even look like guns.
Cops killed with a gun that looks like a toy, and kids killed because their toy looked real.
I have faced a kid with a rifle, while in the AF. I could not tell staring down the barrel if it was real. It could have been a .22. But I heard the other kids making pretend gun sounds, so I didn't even change expressions.
I was off duty, but was a SP. So it made me think.

 

[variant]

Some poor kid got shot thinking its fun pointing a toy gun at a cop, the problem is that he removed the orange part identifying it as a aisoft gun and thus paid the price when the cop decided to defend himself. Such a tragedy.

The reports I read said that the kid was killed for reaching for the toy so it wouldn't have mattered if the identification was removed.

If I'm the cop I bet the 12 year old can't reach for and aim a gun at me properly quickly enough if I already have mine drawn.

 

[kermit]

I am of the opinion that if someone uses a weapon to commit a crime or to threaten someone they should be considered "armed" regardless if the weapon was real or a toy.

 

[Somber Warrior]

I am of the opinion that if someone uses a weapon to commit a crime or to threaten someone they should be considered "armed" regardless if the weapon was real or a toy.

Absolutely. It isn't like they walk into an armed robbery, or a mugging, and say, "Oh, this is a toy gun. No need to be scared."

Fright is exactly what they're trying to induce.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Yes that was the origin.
That child was suicide by cop imho.
But from both sides, how do you tell a toy from a real gun with the ones in the post?

I agree. Teaching kids not to point a gun, toy or real at anyone except for playing with a toy with people that know its a toy.
Remember, city kids don't get firearm education, unless their parents are pro-gun.
So many new guns don't look like real guns, some of the proto-types don't even look like guns.
Cops killed with a gun that looks like a toy, and kids killed because their toy looked real.
I have faced a kid with a rifle, while in the AF. I could not tell staring down the barrel if it was real. It could have been a .22. But I heard the other kids making pretend gun sounds, so I didn't even change expressions.
I was off duty, but was a SP. So it made me think.

Yeah I think coloured guns should be banned on this premise so cops aren't accidentally shooting stupid kids. It is hard to tell with your examples.

They made all the toy guns colorful to begin with because people were mistaking toy guns for real ones in the 90s. I had a few water guns that looked a lot like real guns in the 80s.

All toy guns should be extremely exaggerated in their dimensions so that there is no mistake that it is a toy.

 

[SepiaAndDust]

I'm against "kid-version" guns--I mean, what better way to teach kids that guns are not toys than by painting it day-glo pink and slathering it with Hello Kitty stickers?

Nevertheless, neither toy guns nor real ones that look like toys are going away any time soon. Faced with that reality, the only solution I can think of is to teach kids the police are not your playmates and cops will straight-up shoot you in the face.

Of course, I wouldn't have listened at that age. Heck, at 20, my friends and I were still cop-baiting (idiot-baiting in more than one case) for entertainment.

 

[kermit]

I'm against "kid-version" guns--I mean, what better way to teach kids that guns are not toys than by painting it day-glo pink and slathering it with Hello Kitty stickers?

Not sure if I completely agree, but good point.

Nevertheless, neither toy guns nor real ones that look like toys are going away any time soon. Faced with that reality, the only solution I can think of is to teach kids the police are not your playmates and cops will straight-up shoot you in the face.

Kids have been playing with toy guns for since long before I was born. I don't ever recall any issues with kids getting shot because the cop mistook it for a real gun.

 

[Somber Warrior]

Kids have been playing with toy guns for since long before I was born. I don't ever recall any issues with kids getting shot because the cop mistook it for a real gun.

When I was little, it was easy to tell the real gun from the toy gun. Since the 80s, not so much. There have been numerous incidents over the years.

Time: Toy Guns, Deadly Consequences

The Department of Justice says the federal government doesn’t keep ongoing statistics on the trend, but in a 1990 paper funded by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. police reported that they had used or threatened to use force “in a confrontation where an imitation gun had been mistaken for a real firearm” at a rate of about 200 incidents per year. The paper’s authors suggested that this number was “significantly underreported.” A series of toy gun-related deaths in the late 80s helped pass a federal amendment, sponsored by Republican Sen. Bob Dole, that requires all toy, “look-alike,” or imitation firearms to have a bright orange plug or other salient marking. But manufacturers don’t always adhere to required standards and markings can be altered, according to law enforcement.

It has been happening for over 30 years.

 

[RDKirk]

When I was little, it was easy to tell the real gun from the toy gun. Since the 80s, not so much. There have been numerous incidents over the years. It has been happening for over 30 years.

Prior to the 80s, it was par for toymaker course to make toy guns look as and sound realistic as possible (a "cap" gun in those days set off a spot of gunpowder that sounded a bit louder than a .22). Now we have real gun manufacturers making guns that look toylike.

But with my children, there were never any toy guns. Guns were never introduced as toys--the first gun-like objects my children ever handled were real guns. There was never any such thing as a "toy" gun for them, nor was there any such thing as "playing" with anything like a gun. No airsoft, no laser tag, no paintball; playing with guns as toys produces what we called in the military "negative training"--learning stuff that you have to unlearn later.

My children only handled the real thing (when they were mature enough) and all the safety rules that went with it.

 

[kermit]

When I was little, it was easy to tell the real gun from the toy gun. Since the 80s, not so much. There have been numerous incidents over the years. It has been happening for over 30 years.

Thanks for the info. I guess I have to remember that when I was a kid the 24-hour new cycle didn't exist and such things were not reported nationally.

Much like appearance of a higher rate of cancer. While the official rate has in fact gone up it's not because there's actually a higher rate. The official rate has gone up because we are better at diagnosing cancer than we used to be. Decades ago people would die of unknown causes, but it was really undiagnosed cancer.

 

[SepiaAndDust]

There was never any such thing as a "toy" gun for them, nor was there any such thing as "playing" with anything like a gun. No airsoft, no laser tag, no paintball

That's mostly how I was raised, too. I did have a 1970s Planet of the Apes machine gun, though.

Still, when I played paintball for the first time, I was a little bit troubled at actually pointing the gun at other people.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I am of the opinion that if someone uses a weapon to commit a crime or to threaten someone they should be considered "armed" regardless if the weapon was real or a toy.

Why? If the toy clearly could not have done any harm. I can think of MANY things more fatal than a toy gun short of a real one. A pencil a razor really ANYTHING sharp.

 

[JimmyH]

The boy "cried wolf" and paid the heaviest price. I feel for the family of the deceased, and for the poor fellow who shot the kid. He is going to live with that for the rest of his life, and I'm sure he wishes it never happened. A high stress job being an LEO. No winners in this situation.

 

[dogs4thewin]

The boy "cried wolf" and paid the heaviest price. I feel for the family of the deceased, and for the poor fellow who shot the kid. He is going to live with that for the rest of his life, and I'm sure he wishes it never happened. A high stress job being an LEO. No winners in this situation.

Cried wolf I have heard of that expression
, but honest question how does that expression relate to this particular case?

 

[JimmyH]

Cried wolf I have heard of that expression
, but honest question how does that expression relate to this particular case?

The boy who cried wolf wanted to attract attention to himself. I'm assuming that the young man in question had the same motive. All in fun but with a tragic outcome.

 

[dogs4thewin]

The boy who cried wolf wanted to attract attention to himself. I'm assuming that the young man in question had the same motive. All in fun but with a tragic outcome.

OH OK ithe tricky thing is and someone else said this as well what would make it even sadder is if that is what the boy WANTED because clearly and I have been on BOTH sides of that fence when a person's gets like that they NEED treatment and NOTHING else.

 

[JimmyH]

OH OK ithe tricky thing is and someone else said this as well what would make it even sadder is if that is what the boy WANTED because clearly and I have been on BOTH sides of that fence when a person's gets like that they NEED treatment and NOTHING else.

I don't know the particulars, but I doubt that a 12 year old had any intent beyond 'kidding around.' Suicide by cop may be an option for adults who are despondent, but I can't imagine a 12 year old thinking that way. Still and all, young people do kill themselves so I guess it is possible. I agree that anyone, of any age, who is suffering from chronic depression needs treatment.