Differences

Supreme · Sep 26, 2013

Some of the main differences:

-Christians believe Jesus to be the Son of God for all of humanity; Muslims see Jesus as a mere prophet sent only to the Jews
-Muslims have the Quran as their holy scripture; Christians have the Bible
-Islam is much more legalistic. Sharia Law dictates matter on everything from diet to how to go to the toilet. Christianity is a great deal less law-orientated, focusing more on faith and good works.

There are a lot of similarities, and I find it easier to get along with devout Muslims than hardcore atheists- certainly, a shared belief in the same God helps matters. I do wish we worked together more, especially in places like Nigeria or Indonesia.

LoAmmi · Sep 26, 2013

Alvis said:
Huh?

The New Testament and Christian bible in general comes from the Catholic church, which the people you spoke of say are going to Hell. It's funny to me.

Alvis · Sep 26, 2013

LoAmmi said:
The New Testament and Christian bible in general comes from the Catholic church, which the people you spoke of say are going to Hell. It's funny to me.

Oh. Right.

Yes, I always found it odd how the protestant movement hates the catholic church so much yet without it, there would be no christianity or new testament at all. (Of course, they deny this.)

Alvis · Sep 26, 2013

Supreme said:
Some of the main differences:

-Christians believe Jesus to be the Son of God for all of humanity; Muslims see Jesus as a mere prophet sent only to the Jews
-Muslims have the Quran as their holy scripture; Christians have the Bible
-Islam is much more legalistic. Sharia Law dictates matter on everything from diet to how to go to the toilet. Christianity is a great deal less law-orientated, focusing more on faith and good works.

There are a lot of similarities, and I find it easier to get along with devout Muslims than hardcore atheists- certainly, a shared belief in the same God helps matters. I do wish we worked together more, especially in places like Nigeria or Indonesia.

I agree with all but christianity being less focused on legalism, rules and laws. I think it's just as law-oriented as islam. In my experience, just as much in every way.

StudenTeacher · Sep 26, 2013

seashale is correct. Read for yourself. Pray before you do and ask Him for guidance. There are many things to learn regarding the similarities and differences between belief systems that exist today. We are all brothers and sisters in this life and, who knows, maybe what you learn today can be used to give glory to Him later.

Zoness · Sep 26, 2013

Alvis said:
Oh. Right.

Yes, I always found it odd how the protestant movement hates the catholic church so much yet without it, there would be no christianity or new testament at all. (Of course, they deny this.)

I always found this interesting.

I just attribute it to a lack of education about Christian history, either unintentionally or otherwise: many Protestants I know that hold that belief aren't even basically familiar with the church councils. Some just assumed the Bible dropped out of the sky in its completed (KJV of course) form.

Alvis · Sep 26, 2013

Zoness said:
I always found this interesting.

I just attribute it to a lack of education about Christian history, either unintentionally or otherwise: many Protestants I know that hold that belief aren't even basically familiar with the church councils. Some just assumed the Bible dropped out of the sky in its completed (KJV of course) form.

Basically, except I heard it in the form of "the original manuscripts are perfect." Despite the fact that a manuscript is not an original (it's autograph) and that none of these so called autographs have ever been found, nor does it attest to the fact that councils did indeed choose what books to have in their bible, by vote and with an agenda in mind, no less. But ignorance is bliss, as they like to say.

Alvis · Sep 26, 2013

I'm concerned about christian dominionists, who wish to establish a christian theocracy, much like islam's sharia law. I could only imagine, the US governed by christian fundamentalists.

Homosexuals would be stoned to death,
Everyone would dress like Little House on the Prairie,
Women would be forbidden from working,
Slavery would be reinstituted and defended,
Working on Sunday would be punishable by death,
Insulting christianity or its theology or god would be punishable by death,
Adultery cops would go around making sure the woman you're out with is your legal spouse ("Can I see your marriage license please?")
The media would only have christian tv shows, music and movies (aka more and more Kirk Cameron)
Co-ed swimming and beaches would be banned,
Evolution would be banned in schools and science would stop progressing.
Weather forecasts would just refer to God as controlling the weather now,
And being a non-christian or atheist would be illegal and punishable by death.

Basically, there would be a whole lot of dead people.

seashale76 · Sep 26, 2013

So- it's exactly as I thought. You're being disingenuous. I know plenty of fundamentalists (considering where I live) and none of them have ever expressed wanting the things in your list. In fact- the only things I do hear them talking about with frequency you haven't listed (and most would outright disagree with you on wanting to kill people and enslave them). They do want abortion to be illegal and most don't want to learn about evolution.

Dominionists aren't exactly numerous. I believe that Jesus Camp video was the first time most of us have ever seen that type of thing.

I was raised Pentecostal (A/G) and I never once heard sermons preaching anything you've talked about in a church- and I attended and visited many in 21 years. I also never heard anything of the like in any Southern Baptist church I ever was a member of- and neither has my husband who was raised Southern Baptist. I think those churches have theological issues- but none of them are anything you've talked about in this thread.

If you have encountered such things being expressed in churches (as mentioned on your list)- then I want to know exactly where and when that was.

You know what else I find interesting? People in churches who condemn everyone else for not following the faith yet who also don't follow the faith themselves. As if doing a Pontius Pilate suddenly makes you not part of the problem you're talking about. Not enough love going around? You have to start with self reflection.

Supreme · Sep 26, 2013

Alvis said:
I agree with all but christianity being less focused on legalism, rules and laws. I think it's just as law-oriented as islam. In my experience, just as much in every way.

Then your experience is certainly very unique.

It's true, some churches are more legalistic than others- The Ethiopian Orthodox Church places a greater emphasis on Law than, say, your typical American evangelical church- but by and large, Christianity isn't anywhere near as legalistic as Islam.

Zoness · Sep 26, 2013

Honestly, I agree more with seashale here. I know these bad things exist but they are pretty marginal. Most people are culturally Christian, best case. That will continue to change as the years pass. Eventually the super religious right talking heads will get paid no heed.

Right now, I don't think Dominionists have the slightest ability to enact a theocracy in the U.S. -- too many of us like to party.

Alvis · Sep 26, 2013

Zoness said:
Honestly, I agree more with seashale here. I know these bad things exist but they are pretty marginal. Most people are culturally Christian, best case. That will continue to change as the years pass. Eventually the super religious right talking heads will get paid no heed.

Right now, I don't think Dominionists have the slightest ability to enact a theocracy in the U.S. -- too many of us like to party.

But imagine if they did. Yes, thank GOD these fools will never achieve their utopia here, but imagine for a moment, if they did. Scary thought, isn't it? Just as the muslims want to impose their rotten sharia laws on us, the dominionists would be just as dangerous to deal with.

Zoness · Sep 26, 2013

Alvis said:
But imagine if they did. Yes, thank GOD these fools will never achieve their utopia here, but imagine for a moment, if they did. Scary thought, isn't it? Just as the muslims want to impose their rotten sharia laws on us, the dominionists would be just as dangerous to deal with.

Yes, its a terrifying thought. But I don't believe its achievable. I laugh at it the same way I laugh at the "Sharia is invading America!" routine. Of course I think all religious governments are bad.

I just think the risk they pose to my daily life is exaggerated. If people want to be freaked out you should see the limitless spying potential the NSA has on American citizens all in the time of "protecting us from terrorism". Our rights are vanishing and the intelligence-industrial complex has a bigger part in that than anything.

seashale76 · Sep 26, 2013

Alvis said:
Why an atheist? Is you entire reason for believing in something bigger than yourself due to religious teaching or the bible? I've never understood that.

Actually, no. I had an experience in an Orthodox Church that has convinced me of the existence of God. I had very much been a deist of the God doesn't care about people variety at the time. My agnostic husband had his own experience that convinced him of the existence of God. However, the teachings, theology, interpretation of the scriptures, etcetera in Orthodoxy are also convincing to me- especially when compared to anything else I've encountered in Christianity.

I actually do believe that I would currently be an atheist if not for that. I had already rejected Christianity before that. I had even posted a deconversion testimony on ex-christian.net. Going to an Orthodox Church was a lark after reading about it on a whim.

Alvis · Sep 26, 2013

seashale76 said:
So- it's exactly as I thought. You're being disingenuous. I know plenty of fundamentalists (considering where I live) and none of them have ever expressed wanting the things in your list. In fact- the only things I do hear them talking about with frequency you haven't listed (and most would outright disagree with you on wanting to kill people and enslave them). They do want abortion to be illegal and most don't want to learn about evolution.

You have to start somewhere. Give them time and let's see what happens there.

Dominionists aren't exactly numerous. I believe that Jesus Camp video was the first time most of us have ever seen that type of thing.

Then you people are far too sheltered. No wonder you doubt the truth when it is presented before you.

I was raised Pentecostal (A/G) and I never once heard sermons preaching anything you've talked about in a church- and I attended and visited many in 21 years. I also never heard anything of the like in any Southern Baptist church I ever was a member of- and neither has my husband who was raised Southern Baptist. I think those churches have theological issues- but none of them are anything you've talked about in this thread.

Then you've been extraordinarily lucky.

If you have encountered such things being expressed in churches (as mentioned on your list)- then I want to know exactly where and when that was.

I won't name names because it's rude to call whole churches out but they were nno-denominational, charismatic and all evangelical churches. One went by the label of baptist too.

You know what else I find interesting? People in churches who condemn everyone else for not following the faith yet who also don't follow the faith themselves. As if doing a Pontius Pilate suddenly makes you not part of the problem you're talking about. Not enough love going around? You have to start with self reflection.

It's not my job to fix your religion.

Alvis · Sep 26, 2013

Zoness said:
Yes, its a terrifying thought. But I don't believe its achievable. I laugh at it the same way I laugh at the "Sharia is invading America!" routine. Of course I think all religious governments are bad.

I just think the risk they pose to my daily life is exaggerated. If people want to be freaked out you should see the limitless spying potential the NSA has on American citizens all in the time of "protecting us from terrorism". Our rights are vanishing and the intelligence-industrial complex has a bigger part in that than anything.

It's not achievable. Sharia is already invading England.

I'm not bothered by a corrupt government. I expect that. I expect better, though, from people who are supposed to represent the "infallible and almighty word of God." Can you blame me?

Alvis · Sep 26, 2013

seashale76 said:
Actually, no. I had an experience in an Orthodox Church that has convinced me of the existence of God. I had very much been a deist of the God doesn't care about people variety at the time. My agnostic husband had his own experience that convinced him of the existence of God. However, the teachings, theology, interpretation of the scriptures, etcetera in Orthodoxy are also convincing to me- especially when compared to anything else I've encountered in Christianity.

I actually do believe that I would currently be an atheist if not for that. I had already rejected Christianity before that. I had even posted a deconversion testimony on ex-christian.net. Going to an Orthodox Church was a lark after reading about it on a whim.

I thought you said your husband was a member of the SBC?

As though christianity or atheism are the only two viable options? You seem to think narrowly about these sort of things. They are many alternate paths.

I wanted to join ex-christian but it says you have to pay. I'm like, I don't think so. I just wanted some support but it was not meant to be, alas.

seashale76 · Sep 26, 2013

Alvis said:
I thought you said your husband was a member of the SBC?

As though christianity or atheism are the only two viable options? You seem to think narrowly about these sort of things. They are many alternate paths.

I wanted to join ex-christian but it says you have to pay. I'm like, I don't think so. I just wanted some support but it was not meant to be, alas.

When we got married we both were SBC. Then we left Christianity together for a few years. Then we became Orthodox together.

You really don't know me to make any kind of assumption about how narrowed minded you assume me to be. I'm very aware of what else is out there. I read about and investigated many different religions and philosophies during that time. None suited. None rang true to me. I still do read about various other religions and philosophies because I've always had an interest in learning such things even if I never intend to convert.

I don't recall it being a pay site back when I was there. This was about a decade ago now, iirc. I was also on JREF and the old Internet Infidels for a brief while around that same time- though I lurked way more than I ever posted.

Alvis · Sep 26, 2013

seashale76 said:
When we got married we both were SBC. Then we left Christianity together for a few years. Then we became Orthodox together.

You really don't know me to make any kind of assumption about how narrowed minded you assume me to be. I'm very aware of what else is out there. I read about and investigated many different religions and philosophies during that time. None suited. None rang true to me. I still do read about various other religions and philosophies because I've always had an interest in learning such things even if I never intend to convert.

I don't recall it being a pay site back when I was there. This was about a decade ago now, iirc. I was also on JREF and the old Internet Infidels for a brief while around that same time- though I lurked way more than I ever posted.

Well, you don't know me either and you've called me a liar, which I am anything but. I am brutally honest, so I resent the idea that I'm making this garbage up. Give me a break.

You're not very informed of the monsters in christianity's closet though. I never said you were ignorant of worldly philosophies or whatever, but of the skeletons lurking under christianity's bed. You seem to have an overly sheltered and rosy view of christianity and I'm not sure why. If you truly have any experience with these people I mention, you would know they're very much as I say.

ex.christian is now a pay site to use their forums, last I checked. That's fine, I'm not an atheist at the moment anyway.

ViaCrucis · Sep 26, 2013

Zoness said:
That is an interesting point. After all, the teachings don't matter if people don't adhere to them. I am trying to be objective but I am WELL aware that Christianity doesn't by and large adhere to its own teachings.

Christianity is a behemoth of an animal, over two billion people identify as Christian.

Of those 2 billion, they can be categorized in several rather divergent traditions:

1. Roman Catholic
2. Eastern Orthodox
3. Protestant
3a. Bible Student Movement (e.g. Jehovah's Witnesses)
3b. Miscellaneous Non-Trinitarian (e.g. Christadelphians, Unitarians, Swedenborgians, Oneness Pentecostals)
4. Anglican
5. Oriental Orthodox
6. The Assyrian Church
7. Restorationist (LDS)

And that's hardly exhaustive: post-Reformation non-Roman Catholic Catholic groups (e.g. Old Catholics) such as the Union of Utrect, many of whom are in communion with the Anglican Communion now.

Then of course the term "Protestant" is such a massive catch-all, most Protestant denominations today don't have any real connection with the Historic Protestantism of the Reformation, and can include everything from Lutheranism to the Millerite splinter groups, including the Jehovah's Witnesses. In some sense even the Latter-Day Saint movement can kind of be linked into the broad, highly diverse Protestant umbrella.

You get all this, and with so many voices competing to be heard as de facto Christian, and it's going to look like one big confusing mess.

The whole two billion of us can't even agree on what it means to follow Jesus and His teachings, let alone actually do that very thing.

-CryptoLutheran

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