Differences in covenants

[ByTheSpirit]

While I would like to discuss this topic (above) with everyone, I would like to express what I am about to share in this piece originally is by no means meant to be given from a position of expertise or exclusivity. It is merely what I have observed and learned in my readings of the scriptures and I hope we can share with each other on this subject in a manner that benefits everybody.

This will be a woefully over simplified OP, comparing and contrasting only four main points between the two. It's meant to be that way so everyone can understand it and read it. Nothing against those of us who are long winded, but not everyone can read or even enjoy much longer posts.

On that note I would like to add, what I have learned is the Old and New Covenants really mirror the Old and New Natures respectively. So it would seem that what Paul talks about in Romans 4-8 is really highlighted and brought life more fully by understanding the difference between the covenants.

THE OLD COVENANT (Old Nature):

--Fulfilled by the individual's own efforts (Romans 8:3)

--Resulted in sin (Romans 3:19-20, 7:5-11)

--Sins atoned for annually by the blood of animals (Hebrews 9:7-9, 10:1-4)

--Ends in death for everyone (Romans 6:23; 7:10, 11:30-32)

THE NEW COVENANT (New Nature):

--Fulfilled by Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:17; Romans 8:4)

--Results in God's very righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21; Rom 3:22, 5:19; 1 Cor 1:30; Phil 3:9)

--Sins abolished and forgiven once and for all by the blood of Jesus (Col 2:13-14; John 19:30; Hebrews 9:15, 26, 10:14)

--Begins new life, everlasting life (John 3:16; Romans 6:23; 1 John 2:25)

Please feel free to add on and contribute to what I have began here. I think it is important that we understand the difference between the old and new. And remember, if you already know this stuff, someone else may not, in fact I would venture to say most do not. Please help me shed some light on this, in simple manner.

 

[Frogster]

subscribing, but about to eat dinner! be back later..

 

[turned around]

Hi,
The OC was specifically for the nation of Israel.

Grace to you.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Hi,
The OC was specifically for the nation of Israel.

Grace to you.

Not entirely accurate. There were proselyte's to Judaism which came from all over the world. The individuals seeking to become Jewish by faith, simply had to be circumcised to do so. They had to do other stuff as well, learn the Law, etc, but it was for more than just the nation of Israel. Indeed I would say as far as those who want to justify themselves by works now are under the Law. It's the same concept.

 

[turned around]

Hi,
My young brother it was for national Israel first, and foremost. How many uncircumcised came I'm not sure. Where did you get many from?

Grace to you.

 

[turned around]

Hi,
In fact the wall of partition wasn't removed until the saviours resurrection.

Grace to you.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Hi,
My young brother it was for national Israel first, and foremost. How many uncircumcised came I'm not sure. Where did you get many from?

Grace to you.

Hi,
In fact the wall of partition wasn't removed until the saviours resurrection.

Grace to you.

There were Jews all the way up into Asia Minor and Greece even Rome and beyond. The wall of partition seperated Jews from Gentiles. But Jews in such an instance would refer to those who may have been Gentile by birth but become proseltyzed into the Jewish faith. Honestly it's the same concept we have when a lost person accepts Christ. They once were sinners then became Christians. Just in this instance they were foreigners to the covenant of God, Gentiles by birth and accepted Jewish faith and custom thus becoming Jewish converts (proselytes)

 

[turned around]

Hi,
With all due respect I understand your analogy, but the dispensation of grace is far superior.

Grace to you.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Hi,
With all due respect I understand your analogy, but the dispensation of grace is far superior.

Grace to you.

I agree grace is superior than law, I'm not saying it isn't. I was merely explaining how the Old Covenant applied to more than just Jews by birth. It also applied to those who came into the Jewish faith from outside of it.

 

[jiminpa]

But when I read the psalms and the accounts of King David, I see a man who operated in the redemption to come. I see God's heart for mercy when I read the Old Testament. I see the Old Covenant as the foundation of the New Covenant and truly believe that Jesus did not abolish the law, but He did fulfil it.

I'm not a dispensationalist, so I don't see all of these unbiblical ages. I can't explain it well. I believe that if read properly salvation was available in the Old Covenant, but it was looking, (from our perspective), forward to Messiah, and few understood it. God always extended mercy to those whose heart was His.

One major distinction though, is that with Jesus' sacrifice in our past we have the grace to beat sin be the blood of the Lamb. That was not available until Jesus sacrificed Himself in linear time.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

But when I read the psalms and the accounts of King David, I see a man who operated in the redemption to come. I see God's heart for mercy when I read the Old Testament. I see the Old Covenant as the foundation of the New Covenant and truly believe that Jesus did not abolish the law, but He did fulfil it.

I'm not a dispensationalist, so I don't see all of these unbiblical ages. I can't explain it well. I believe that if read properly salvation was available in the Old Covenant, but it was looking, (from our perspective), forward to Messiah, and few understood it. God always extended mercy to those whose heart was His.

One major distinction though, is that with Jesus' sacrifice in our past we have the grace to beat sin be the blood of the Lamb. That was not available until Jesus sacrificed Himself in linear time.

There definitely was a different swagger to those men and woman of faith in the OT that didn't exist in those around them. I mean a good portion of churches now would excommunicate a person from the body if they worshipped like David did! Right? That's insane! The man truly knew the heart of God like few others. Perhaps that's why he's the only man to ever be testified about by God that he was after God's own heart. Even still, they had to abide by the rules and regs of the Old Covenant, with all it's sacrifices and do this and do that's. Praise God it's so much less confusing now, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ!

 

[jiminpa]

There definitely was a different swagger to those men and woman of faith in the OT that didn't exist in those around them. I mean a good portion of churches now would excommunicate a person from the body if they worshipped like David did! Right? That's insane! The man truly knew the heart of God like few others. Perhaps that's why he's the only man to ever be testified about by God that he was after God's own heart. Even still, they had to abide by the rules and regs of the Old Covenant, with all it's sacrifices and do this and do that's. Praise God it's so much less confusing now, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ!

...and yet David had a lot of "wiggle room," because his heart was God's. He ate and gave his men the priests' portion of bread, and Jesus cited it as an act of provision. There are a few other things that I can't quite remember at the moment that he did that weren't quite kosher, but were not the things scripture records as sin.

 

[Frogster]

But when I read the psalms and the accounts of King David, I see a man who operated in the redemption to come. I see God's heart for mercy when I read the Old Testament. I see the Old Covenant as the foundation of the New Covenant and truly believe that Jesus did not abolish the law, but He did fulfil it.

I'm not a dispensationalist, so I don't see all of these unbiblical ages. I can't explain it well. I believe that if read properly salvation was available in the Old Covenant, but it was looking, (from our perspective), forward to Messiah, and few understood it. God always extended mercy to those whose heart was His.

One major distinction though, is that with Jesus' sacrifice in our past we have the grace to beat sin be the blood of the Lamb. That was not available until Jesus sacrificed Himself in linear time.

The old cov is abolished, it can't function without the temple, the law was one, brake em break the cov, lev 26:15, and many more verses that show the law was one legal unit, based off the priesthood, according toheb 7, and other passages.


Eph 2:15, heb 10:9, 2 cor 3:13, abolished.

 

[Frogster]

But when I read the psalms and the accounts of King David, I see a man who operated in the redemption to come. I see God's heart for mercy when I read the Old Testament. I see the Old Covenant as the foundation of the New Covenant and truly believe that Jesus did not abolish the law, but He did fulfil it.

I'm not a dispensationalist, so I don't see all of these unbiblical ages. I can't explain it well. I believe that if read properly salvation was available in the Old Covenant, but it was looking, (from our perspective), forward to Messiah, and few understood it. God always extended mercy to those whose heart was His.

One major distinction though, is that with Jesus' sacrifice in our past we have the grace to beat sin be the blood of the Lamb. That was not available until Jesus sacrificed Himself in linear time.

yes, the reign of the grace cov, did not come until Christ. Rom 5, the one act, and other verses too.

True, in linear time is important, only then, the cross went backwards so to speak, Rom 3:25, but agreed, it was not intil the act in time and space.

see? you and i can agree sometimes.

 

[Frogster]

The old cov was not of faith and grace, gal 3:12. The NASB adds contrary in the verse, and that is correct, ans Paul juxtaposed law and grace using Abraham, law voides the promise, Rom 4:14-15, and Gal 3:18 shows similar.

 

[Frogster]

There definitely was a different swagger to those men and woman of faith in the OT that didn't exist in those around them. I mean a good portion of churches now would excommunicate a person from the body if they worshipped like David did! Right? That's insane! The man truly knew the heart of God like few others. Perhaps that's why he's the only man to ever be testified about by God that he was after God's own heart. Even still, they had to abide by the rules and regs of the Old Covenant, with all it's sacrifices and do this and do that's. Praise God it's so much less confusing now, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ!

 

[DennisTate]

Hi,
The OC was specifically for the nation of Israel.

Grace to you.

But........ would not the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple complex and the fulfillment of every verse in Ezekiel chapter 40 to 48 set in motion a series of events that would have far reaching results...... even in giving rain in due season to nations that will allow Jews and Noahides to travel to Jerusalem to observe the Festival of Tabernacles?



http://www.christianforums.com/t7728207/

Would the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple stabilize the climate???
That is certainly what is implied in the Book of Zechariah!

Zechariah 14 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

Zechariah 14:16 ¶ "And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain."

So this seems to imply that if, for example the nation of Jordan would allow Jews, Noahides and Messianic believers to travel to Jerusalem freely, there is a promise they would be given rain in due season which could soon result in much of their desert areas being turned green.

 

[Alithis]

But when I read the psalms and the accounts of King David, I see a man who operated in the redemption to come. I see God's heart for mercy when I read the Old Testament. I see the Old Covenant as the foundation of the New Covenant and truly believe that Jesus did not abolish the law, but He did fulfil it.

I'm not a dispensationalist, so I don't see all of these unbiblical ages. I can't explain it well. I believe that if read properly salvation was available in the Old Covenant, but it was looking, (from our perspective), forward to Messiah, and few understood it. God always extended mercy to those whose heart was His.

One major distinction though, is that with Jesus' sacrifice in our past we have the grace to beat sin be the blood of the Lamb. That was not available until Jesus sacrificed Himself in linear time.

it appears to me that David ,ultimatly,is saved by faith.exactly as Abraham and you and I.David says inyour "word" do i put my trusts.....and the word became flesh and we too put our trust in this same word

But........ would not the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple complex and the fulfillment of every verse in Ezekiel chapter 40 to 48 set in motion a series of events that would have far reaching results...... even in giving rain in due season to nations that will allow Jews and Noahides to travel to Jerusalem to observe the Festival of Tabernacles?
http://www.christianforums.com/t7728207/
Would the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple stabilize the climate???
That is certainly what is implied in the Book of Zechariah!
Zechariah 14 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)
So this seems to imply that if, for example the nation of Jordan would allow Jews, Noahides and Messianic believers to travel to Jerusalem freely, there is a promise they would be given rain in due season which could soon result in much of their desert areas being turned green.

the building of the 3rd temple culminates in the final unveiling of the veil over the minds of the nation of Israel... not Israel and Judah but the whole reunified collective nation...and they will be saved in one day.which then soon after ushers in the return of MESSIAH YESHUA.

 

[turned around]

Hi,
I believe Ezekiel 40-48 will be fulfilled. Israel will rise again. Glory to God.

Grace to you.

 

[Frogster]

There is no mandmade temple in the new cov, the body of Christ is the living temple, there are alot of veses about this, 1 Peter 2 agrees with Paul in Eph 2, a spiritual temple. We are the temple...forget man made ones, that is the past!

Not in hand made one any more...Stephen.


Acts 7:48 Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made by hands, as the prophet says,


Paul......

Acts 7:24 The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man,


Hebrews...WE...WE.. are the house..


Heb 3:6 but Christ is faithful over God's house as a son. And we are his house if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope.


Not set up by men!



Heb 8:2 a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man.


9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation)


9:24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.




You...you..are??????????


1 Cor 3:16 Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?




Done!