Difference Between...

[Soverinth]

So here i am puzzled and just plain confused.

I don't know what it is but i can't seem to grasp the true meaning of Belief and the true meaning of Faith.

I understand the definitions of each completely fine but when i hear from pastors and just other Christians that you have to believe the Gospel and put your faith in Jesus, I get what they are saying but when i really think about it i just don't seem to get it like others do.

Would you say a person is a believer if they have no problem saying who Jesus is and why he came down and what he did. Basically having no problem saying everything that happened.


That^ versus someone who is not a believer and when they are asked if they believe it they have problem saying it freely like with some kind of hesitation. Would you say this person ^ doesn't believe?


Along with all that what would you define the difference between believing in your mind and believing in your heart. <--- That is what stumbles me the most because i full well understand why Jesus was sent to earth and i say i believe it but do i believe it in my heart? What does it mean to believe in your heart? I just am so confused about this.


Edit: Most of my issues concerning this have already been answered below and on other pages of this thread, so i am content now. If you still wish answer this first post, go right ahead.

 

[1watchman]

If you called someone on the telephone then did not talk to them, that would not be very profitable, would it? If you see that the Lord Jesus is God's beloved Son, and the only Savior for mankind, you need to start thanking Him for His sacrifice on the Cross for your sins ---very important.

You need to thank God-the Father for sending His Son, and tell the Lord Jesus you want Him to be your Savior and Lord of your life (if you really see the need to be saved for eternity). If you are devoted to the Lord and make Him your best Friend, He will come and "make His abode with you" (see John 14). Look up always!

Ever in Christ by grace alone, 1watchman

 

[Emmy]

Dear armizer. To believe is simply what it says: you either believe it, or you don`t. To have Faith is to know for sure, that what you believe and hope for
is true. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Scott-Smith]

So here i am puzzled and just plain confused.

I don't know what it is but i can't seem to grasp the true meaning of Belief and the true meaning of Faith.

I understand the definitions of each completely fine but when i hear from pastors and just other Christians that you have to believe the Gospel and put your faith in Jesus, I get what they are saying but when i really think about it i just don't seem to get it like others do.

Would you say a person is a believer if they have no problem saying who Jesus is and why he came down and what he did. Basically having no problem saying everything that happened.


That^ versus someone who is not a believer and when they are asked if they believe it they have problem saying it freely like with some kind of hesitation. Would you say this person ^ doesn't believe?


Along with all that what would you define the difference between believing in your mind and believing in your heart. <--- That is what stumbles me the most because i full well understand why Jesus was sent to earth and i say i believe it but do i believe it in my heart? What does it mean to believe in your heart? I just am so confused about this.

I believe at some point and often at many points we all either have or do doubt at times. Why else would we have so many guides in the bible as to how to build faith? Why did Thomas doubt and he walked with Jesus? So don't be too burdened with the thought of your lack of faith... you are human.

It is not for me to conjecture whether or not anyone believes.

The heart if a difficult one to grasp. In simplest explanation the way I see it, when you believe with your heart your mind and body will follow up with action. This action can be the guilt you feel from committing a sin and the desire to stop or the desire to do as Christ instructed not caring who knows. What this boils down to is being gripped by the Holy Spirit. When a person in this day is converted to Christianity they are given the gift of the Holy Spirit, this gift will make your gut turn inside out wanting to change. As the bible says there are things we do that quench and cause strife to the spirit so we ultimately are in control of the presence.

I recommend this DVD: Zondervan - When God’s Spirit Moves: Six Sessions on the Life-Changing Power of the Holy Spirit - Jim Cymbala - 9780310322191 I think it will help.

I will be praying that you find your answers and have peace, wisdom and clarity.

 

[Soverinth]

Thank you guys

I understand it much better now. Heh, i guess i was just making it too complicated.

 

[asiyreh]

I don't think you're complicating it Arm,

Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.

This word here renewing is a constant ongoing process in your mind. I think you're right to question weather you have a head faith or a heart Faith.

Heart faith feels like a very sure thing in my experience. The bible describes it as a rock, built on the ROCK (Christ).

The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Romans 8:16

Do you feel that testimony Arm?
Sounds like you don't. Don't be satisfied with a head faith, seek the faith of the heart it can be found. Emerse yourself in a study of the Word. Challenge your own doubts. If this Christianity thing is true it will bare investigation. I can testify that it does. But you need to be sure.

Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. Isa 1:18

Not leave your brain at the door.

But please do be sure Arm that you trust in Christ. Look here what Christ says to the church in Laodicea.

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Don't get all in a panic about it. Growth in Christ is a gradual process.

But be sure that Christ is faithful to save, know it, head to toe.

 

[Alive_Again]

I remember when I came to the Lord, or shortly after (I didn't even know what had happened to me when in my heart wanted God, so when I started to move forward, the enemy rose up). God reads the prayer of the heart. I started fellowshipping with some very strong believers who really moved in the power of the Spirit. The enemy, even though I had been encouraged by man, really started hitting my mind with many doubts.

I could hear and see what God was doing for my new friends. They were telling me the gospel and what I should be experiencing, and how God wouldn't forsake me, yet I couldn't enter into what they had. The scriptures only seemed to confirm how worthless I was to God and that He had a reason for leaving me "aside" while others were getting blessed.

I had many strongholds (of the enemy) in my own soul (the thinking, feeling part). Also the will (the soul) (and not the spirit) because the choices you make are the things God will hold you accountable to. He wont' condemn you because you feel like crap or are oppressed. He judges those who push Him aside, that don't seek Him. The ones that disregard His plan. They won't hear what Jesus said. They don't want Him. I get the strong impression that you do!

Believers may want to do His will and experience problems, but He is not going to hold that against you. He wants you to do what you know already to do. What you know in your innermost place that you want God to stay and that He WANTS to stay,and what you know to do that would please Him.

The enemy will contend for your "soul' because your power of choice springs forth from here. They are "strongholds" of unbelief. That's what I had. If you're asking these questions and yet really want to move with God and know and enjoy Him, that is what you're dealing with too.

Everyone deals with these in different areas, depending on your influences and what things entered into your heart via "your gates" (eyes, ears, mouth). We're a "piece of work" as the world would call it. Not to lose hope! God knew all of this and can use it to His glory as you enter into the life of an overcomer (by His Spirit)! He wants to turn you around and turn you into His "piece of work". He specializes in lost cases (as the world may call them) and turn their (yours and my) life into a thing of beauty. It seems like a long road now, but if you don't give up and when you "hear" on the inside something that you somehow "know in your know-er" will move you (even one step) closer to where God would begin to reveal Himself, you're on that path. It doesn't matter if it has all of the trimmings of a defeat (Let's call it godly "drama"). Don't give up!

Whatever happens, don't stop fellowshipping in church! Don't let the enemy separate you from His Body. God had me in one church for about a year or a year and a half, then He moved me to a storefront church! Man, the power of God was there! He's not limited to that, but be open also to visiting churches and even in one meeting, God can work something special from His toolbox of the Spirit. He's got anointings we've never seen and sometimes these little visits allow Him to break out a tool of the Spirit that's specialized and just for you!

... i really think about it i just don't seem to get it like others do.

This was EXACTLY my story too.

Would you say a person is a believer if they have no problem saying who Jesus is and why he came down and what he did.

You need to learn how to exercise your faith where you can say and declare before God, Jesus, all the angels and devils, "I am a child of God!" "I am not my own!" "I am forgiven and bought by the Blood of Jesus!" "He is my Lord!" (Not just "Lord"). When you can stand up on your own feet in opposition to EVERYTHING you're feeling and thinking about it (in faith), then you're on the "holy highway".

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. If you're a new believer (not even sure of that, just like I was), then you need the "sincere milk of the Word"). You're probably choking on some of it. You might even be reluctant to get into it because of that, but start with the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God. With who He is (to you) and get that built into your spirit. Your job is to get the Word into you (that's why I recommend the Hagin faith books). It worked wonders for me when NOTHING else seemed to help.

...i full well understand why Jesus was sent to earth and i say i believe it but do i believe it in my heart?

Don't second guess yourself. If you want to be of the truth and are drawn to Jesus, you've no doubt heard the call of the Good Shepherd. He's the only reason you care about this. People don't seek God "on their own, no matter what they think.) The enemy won't draw you to Him. No one can come unless the Father draws them (the enemy used to use this for me to second-guess God that's why I had problems... because I wasn't really called). The enemy is a liar! Jesus said that He would in no wise cast out those who come to Him. He has received you! If you came in sincerity (don't try to slice up who you are). If you wanted Him and believe who He is and what He did, and desire Him, He will in no wise cast you out. That is the Word of God.

Your job now is to fight the good fight of faith. (That's exactly how the Lord led me.) I finally believed that He would and DID receive me already (past tense) and He led me to some Kenneth Hagin books on faith.

You know what? God was in those books because in spite of every well intended opinion I ever heard by anyone, none of it had ever gotten past my head (actually the stronghold in my mind) and ONLY the Holy Spirit as I meditated on the Word of God as I read those teachings ministered LIFE to me for the first time! It was a gifted, anointed teacher, teaching something the Lord commanded him to teach --- FAITH! It allowed the Holy Spirit to confirm the Word with signs following (on the inside). Little by little, but let me tell you when you're fighting the darkness, and a little light shines, it's bright! I kept reading and pursuing and God kept encouraging me to have faith, seeking Him, believing that He received me and drew me to Him, and NOW, I've enjoyed some wonderful fruit of peace and love and POWER, that I can confidently tell you (sticking my tongue out at the stronghold!) that God can get past all of this and feed your spirit man. All of the self doubts are NOT of God. If the man who chooses (your inner man) who he will say "YES" to is "GOD!" then you're already on the right track and what is left for you to do, is to feed on the anointed Word of God and give God something to work with.

It's time to get ticked off at the devil and say: "I'm tired of doubting if God even loves ME (because it's not really happening), and wondering why this seems to steer me AWAY from really entering into God, and I'm going to dare to believe it's only the DEVIL (they are real) that is preventing me. I'm going to do what I can and find out what it takes to start believing GOD no matter who it harelips!" (I'm encouraging you, not yelling at you here.) Stand up for yourself against the enemy! Go get some of those books on faith and show the devil who's really boss! (God) When you're on His team, you and He are the MAJORITY and He WILL guide you PAST all of this mess!

Get some of these Kenneth Hagin faith books (God's not limited to this, but having been in a very similar situation, I can attest that the Holy Spirit agrees and ministers from them) and do what you can do to begin contesting what these strongholds of doubt and unbelief are waging within you. When you do get past this, things will really begin to accelerate in your life in the spirit realm, and in your walk with God. !!! (Don't let this slip!)

 

[hedrick]

There is a difficulty, in that "believe" has changed meaning over time, and is currently ambiguous. You can believe that the earth goes around the sun, and you can believe in a person. "Belief" can be used for both. "Faith", however, is generally used for the second. In the NT, the same Greek word is translated both as faith and belief in English, depending upon context.

I would say that Christians need both. We have faith in God, which could also be expressed by saying we believe in God. No difference. But our faith is based on knowledge, which has beliefs in the other sense as part of it. Incomplete knowledge, yes, but still some knowledge. I think (along with most Christians) that we can only know God (in either sense) unless he reveals himself to us, and the public, official or definitive ways in which he revealed himself were through his actions with Israel and with Jesus, recorded in the OT and the NT. Hence faith is based on belief and knowledge, which is based on revelation, and that revelation comes to us through Scripture.

But the Reformation position is that revelation and Scripture aren't enough. Faith is a response, which happens when the Holy Spirit speaks through Scripture. That means that reading Scripture like a history text isn't enough. We have to understand it as being spoken to us, and that personal speaking is traditionally associated with the Holy Spirit. The Reformers would add that this normally occurs through the preaching of the Word. While the Holy Spirit can speak to us directly, or through reading Scripture in private, most commonly the Spirit speaks to us when the Word is preached, understood and lived out in community, i.e. the Church. Faith isn't just intellectual. The Reformers saw faith as trust in God, though that's just a summary. It's also a commitment, and I would also say that faith in God and love of God are basically the same thing. Paul tended to use faith, and Jesus love, but I believe they were speaking of the same thing. (I'm not sure everyone agrees with that, but it's the only way I can see to unify Jesus' teaching with Paul's.)

That's the theological background. Now let me try to answer your question.

The answer to the last question in your OP is that faith isn't just intellectual belief, but a personal reaction to it. I wouldn't get too tied up in exactly how that reaction is described. The Reformers emphasized trust. Jesus emphasized love and commitment. So you not only understand what Christ did, but see it as having been done for you, and you are grateful for that and are willing to trust yourself to him. But the degree of trust is going to change over time. Initially you're just going to have some understanding that it was for you. The amount you're able to trust will grow with experience. That's perfectly normal, and you shouldn't be concerned that your faith is only starting.

Let me say something about why the strength of your faith doesn't matter. What you're trusting in is Christ, not your own faith. So it's Christ's strength that matters, not your own. Martin Luther commented that it's like someone who carries around a treasure. It doesn't matter whether he carries it in an elaborate box or a paper bag, it's the treasure that matters. The treasure is God's love. The bag is your faith. But you do have to have it with you. You can't leave it buried someplace.

 

[Harry3142]

armizer-

With other animal species it is their feelings and desires which determine their decisions. But with mankind it is also our decisions which determine our feelings and desires. If you make the decision, or have made that decision already, to put your trust in Jesus' atoning sacrifice as assuring you of salvation, then the feelings will reveal themselves in time. But it is the decision that is the impetus for the feelings, rather than the feelings being the impetus for the decision.

 

[trulyconverted]

Dear armizer,

After reading your first post I have a question, are you sure that you are truly in the faith? Are you truly born again?

You see faith is a gift from God. Romans12:3 "For by the grace given to me .........., each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned."

Also John 3:6 "A person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven."

James 2:19 "You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe-and shudder!"

Before I was truly made born again by God (which is very recent) for more that a decade I thought I was saved and I received and believed in Jesus. I prounounced myself saved and my evangelist also said I was saved. But you see, it is nobody's business to tell you that you are already saved because Romans 8:16 says "The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,"

I am not doing this just to complicate things for you. It is of utmost importance. You see when a person is truly born of God, the Holy Spirit dwells in that person. John 14:26 says "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."

You see if the the Spirit is in you when you read the bible the Spirit Himself gives you understanding.

Go to the Lord in prayer and ask Him if He truly saved you? Or are you not saved yet? Ask Him to make you born again. John 2:7-8 "7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Do not just believe what men tell you but always, every single time, go to the Lord.

All glory to God.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

So here i am puzzled and just plain confused.

I don't know what it is but i can't seem to grasp the true meaning of Belief and the true meaning of Faith.

I understand the definitions of each completely fine but when i hear from pastors and just other Christians that you have to believe the Gospel and put your faith in Jesus, I get what they are saying but when i really think about it i just don't seem to get it like others do.

Would you say a person is a believer if they have no problem saying who Jesus is and why he came down and what he did. Basically having no problem saying everything that happened.


That^ versus someone who is not a believer and when they are asked if they believe it they have problem saying it freely like with some kind of hesitation. Would you say this person ^ doesn't believe?


Along with all that what would you define the difference between believing in your mind and believing in your heart. <--- That is what stumbles me the most because i full well understand why Jesus was sent to earth and i say i believe it but do i believe it in my heart? What does it mean to believe in your heart? I just am so confused about this.

The bible says that the devil is a believer too. He believe in Christ. Not only does he believe, but he also knows full well and has first hand experience.

Belief and faith goes deeper than an intellectual experience where the devil is. It has to do with influencing your actions and behavior. If you believe it is going to be a sunny day, would you hold an umbrella? You might, but if you do it means you do not fully believe. That is why James speaks of faith and works going hand in hand because it does. I might believe that Jesus is coming soon, but I'm not telling anyone about it, not trying to reach out to anyone. Someone else believes and is doing all those things. I believe an an intellectual lever, but they believe on the level which matters.

 

[NDE Master]

There is no such thing as believing in your mind or believing in your heart. If you acknowledge and believe Jesus is the Christ then you are saved. And in doing so then you believe the message of the gospels.