Difference between Repent and Reform question

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 28, 2008

While translating the Jewish/Hebrew book of Revelation I came across this greek word for "repent/reform".
Jesus used the same word when speaking with the Jews in the NC and I would like to ask how do others view this word.
When repenting we are actually asking GOD to forgive us for our acts/works of sin/iniquity after hearing the "Good-Message", but after that, it is up to the believers of YHWH and His Christ to reform from the works of iniquity.

I just thought this topic would be interesting to discuss. Thoughts? Peace.

Mark 1:15 And saying, "Has been filled the Time, and has-neared the Kingdom of the GOD/YHWH.
Be ye reforming/repenting/metanoeite <3340> (5720)!, and be ye believing! in the Good-Message.

Revelation 16:11 And they blaspheme the GOD of the heaven out of the miseries of them, and out of the sores of them. And not they repent/reform/metenohsan<3340> (5656) out of the works of them.

Reve 2:5 Be thou remembering then! , whence/which-place thou hast fallen and reform/repent/metanohson <3340> (5657) thou! And the first works, thou do ! If yet no, I am coming to thee quickly, and shall be removing the Lamp-stand of thee out of the Place of her, if ever no thou should be reforming/repenting/metanohshV <3340> (5661)".

3340. metanoeo met-an-o-eh'-o from 3326 and 3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent.
3326. meta met-ah' a primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly, denoting accompaniment; "amid" (local or causal); modified variously according to the case (genitive association, or accusative succession) with which it is joined;
3539. noieo noy-eh'-o from 3563; to exercise the mind (observe), i.e. (figuratively) to comprehend, heed:--consider, perceive, think, understand.
3540. noema no'-ay-mah from 3539; a perception, i.e. purpose, or (by implication) the intellect, disposition, itself:--device, mind, thought.
3563. nous nooce probably from the base of 1097; the intellect, i.e. mind (divine or human; in thought, feeling, or will); by implication, meaning:--mind, understanding. Compare 5590.

New_Wineskin · Mar 27, 2008

LittleLambofJesus said:
While translating the Jewish/Hebrew book of Revelation I came across this greek word for "repent/reform".
Jesus used the same word when speaking with the Jews in the NC and I would like to ask how do others view this word.
When repenting we are actually asking GOD to forgive us for our acts/works of sin/iniquity after hearing the "Good-Message", but after that, it is up to the believers of YHWH and His Christ to reform from the works of iniquity.

I just thought this topic would be interesting to discuss. Thoughts? Peace.

I have always considered repenting to be a discontinuing of whatever actions or inactions that have caused a rift between Him and I . So , it is a type of reforming - from the start .

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 12, 2009

Bump for more discussion........

sunlover1 · Oct 13, 2009

One of the most important discussions we can have isnt it?

Look up the word repent as used in Acts 3:19 or Acts 2:38 and repentance as used in Hebrews 6:1 and tell me the definition? Does this definition differ from what you thought the word repent means, or are you still holding on to the same belief that repent means to "Weep and Howl" and lament. Hebrews 6:1 tells us that repentance is the foundation kindergarden or first grade stuff. The word translated repent in English New Testaments is the Greek word metanoeo.
http://our.homewithgod.com/411/Repent.htm

If you look at the word repent in this context it wouldnt fit to use "remorse".. :
Matthew 21:32 For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you didn't believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. When you saw it, you didn't even repent afterward, that you might believe him. (WEB KJV ASV DBY WBS YLT RSV NIV)

LiturgyInDMinor · Oct 13, 2009

To me "repent" means to seek forgiveness from God for my sins.
Reform? Well I'm a presbyterian...so that's a given.

LiturgyInDMinor · Oct 13, 2009

IF you study the fact of ancient Israel or any ancient(or modern) middle eastern culture you will soon realize that LONG HAIR was not an option at all, especially as a carpenter! THE SHROUD CLEARLY dictates a figure with the typical hippy long hair, anglo-Saxon image.
It's not right, not real, a wonderful work of FAITH but not the bodily image of the bodily buried Christ.

Just stating facts and historical and real world arguements.

sunlover1 · Oct 13, 2009

NRB said:
To me "repent" means to seek forgiveness from God for my sins.
Reform? Well I'm a presbyterian...so that's a given.

I appreciate your contribution to the conversation and I can see why you think that's what they mean by repent.
That's what we've all been taught and LLOJ is trying to see exactly what God meant when He said to "repent"

As you can see by the above posts, the word translated from the greek seems to mean
to change one's thinking.. rather than just to "feel bad for your sins"

Not sure you understand what's being said, but i thought I'd try to clarify that for you ..

That or perhaps i misunderstand you..

sunlover

watchm@n · Oct 13, 2009

NRB said:
To me "repent" means to seek forgiveness from God for my sins.

Repent does not mean to seek forgiveness. Saying sorry please forgive me that is seeking forgiveness. To give up your sin to turn from your wicked ways and toward God that is true repentance.

LittleLambofJesus · Dec 30, 2009

PaladinValer said:
*snip*

Repentance is to change one's mind; to adopt God's Will as our own will when we have decided not to follow in God's Way. This does require the Holy Spirit, but it also involves our own choice to return to our fallen cross and pick it up again..

Greetings PV....I thought I would add your quote to this thread...hope ya don't mind dear friend

LittleLambofJesus · Dec 30, 2009

Christos Anesti said:
Man is not united to God against his own will. If he was than history would be a cruel and pointless spectacle. A loving God would have perfectly united everyone to himself a long time ago rather than go through this pointless drama if man played no part whatsoever. We are co-workers with Christ.

If man plays no part in repentance why wouldn't God simply give everyone repentance ? Does He supposedly enjoy people suffering in hell?

ebia · Dec 30, 2009

Jesus: "repent and believe the good news [I bring]"
Josephus "repent and believe in me"

Clearly Josephus didn't mean "feel a bit guilty about your sins, ask God for forgiveness, and walk around thinking I am God", rather (he was talking to a rebel-brigand) he meant "Give up on your agenda, your way of saving Israel, and take up mine".

Likewise that's more what Jesus was saying - give up your agenda, your way of doing things, your way of saving the world, and join in mine. Turning away from our individual sins is part of that, but it's not the main point.

bbbbbbb · Dec 30, 2009

My 2 cents' worth:

Meta (change) noia (one's mind). Repent is to have a change of mind. That is, a genuine change of mind which results in changed behavior.

Reform is simply to form again, usually in a different form, but still of the same substance. Thus, the Protestant Reformers wished to take the Catholic Church and form it in a better (more biblical) form, but not to break with it and start a new church (although that is what generally resulted). The Catholic Church did not repent (have a change of mind resulting in changed behavior) so that it could not be reformed.

Emmy · Dec 31, 2009

Dear LittleLambof Jesus. Jesus told us again and again Repent, and I believe it means both, Repent, and Reform. May I wish you and your loved ones a good and blessed New Year. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 5, 2010

From another thread:

Originally Posted by Markea

Maybe if you consider repentance the same thing as reform.

Time to start up this thread again me thinks

Tangible · Nov 5, 2010

Repentance is a gift from God, part of the justifying and sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

2 Timothy 2:25 ... correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,

Acts 5:31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

There is a dangerous tendency among some Christians to attempt to define repentance as a work we must do in order to be saved. Like good works, repentance is a product of God's gift of saving faith at work within us.

Repentance certainly involves the actions of the Christian when we do not resist the work of the Holy Spirit within us or when we make wise choices which enable us to avoid sinful behaviors, but we can never take credit for these actions ourselves. Repentance is a work of God within us, convicting us of our sinfulness, giving us the desire to turn away from our sin and toward God - something that we would never want to do in and of our sinful flesh.

Romans 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.

Repentance is also intimately associated with Baptism.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

In his Small Catechism, Martin Luther gives an excellent explanation of what our Baptism means to us daily, not merely as a one-time event, but as the very heart of our ongoing Christian lives.

What does such baptizing with water signify?

It signifies that the old Adam in us should, by daily contrition and repentance, be drowned and die with all sins and evil lusts, and, again, a new man daily come forth and arise; who shall live before God in righteousness and purity forever.

Living in your Baptism means living a life of repentance, becoming ever more aware of our own innate sinfulness and ever more reliant upon the boundless grace of God.

Rick Otto · Apr 28, 2011

Yeah,... we tend to leave repentance at apology & keep reform cosmetic.
Ain't we a peach.

SummaScriptura · Apr 29, 2011

As far as I can determine, repentance, like being made in God's image, is a gift of God uniquely donated to humankind.

cyberlizard · Apr 29, 2011

Teshuvah = repent, from the Hebrew verb shuv which means to turn.

Steve

Ishraqiyun · Apr 29, 2011

stupid double post

Ishraqiyun · Apr 29, 2011

IF you study the fact of ancient Israel or any ancient(or modern) middle eastern culture you will soon realize that LONG HAIR was not an option at all, especially as a carpenter! THE SHROUD CLEARLY dictates a figure with the typical hippy long hair, anglo-Saxon image.
It's not right, not real, a wonderful work of FAITH but not the bodily image of the bodily buried Christ.

Iconography shoes Jesus with long hair long before Anglo-Saxxon influences were that great throughout Christendom. Were the ancient copts influenced by Anglo ideas? What about the ancient Ethiopian Church ? Some Jews had sort hair. Some Jews had long hair. Some Jews even took vows NOT to cut their hair or beard.

Difference between Repent and Reform question

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