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So who goes to hell?

PStephens

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Are there any type of Christians you would exclude?

If they are Christian, then no. You must know that while I am Calvinist and most definitely not an Armenian, I am more against division in the Church over the two issues than I am defending Calvinism. Salvation is simply dependent on this: faith and repentance.
A person can be screwed up theologically, but if they have come to faith in Christ and been brought to repentance, they are saved and regenerate and they are my brother/sister in Christ. I will by no means call them unsaved.
It's important to know that the only necessary knowledge is that of Christ. All other knowledge is worthless without that knowledge. Therefore, discussions like these are good and we must seek sound doctrine, but all they are is simply that and should not bring any division in the Body of Christ.
I know I'm going off topic now, but let me finish with this. I think it's important that the thief next to Jesus on the cross was put in the scriptures. Because we should look at that and see that faith and repentance are all that's necessary to bring one to salvation and it is by no means dependent on any work of man.

In this, I can be in fellowship with both Wesley and Whitefield (Methodists).
 
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brinny

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I like to keep things simple :) God says ...

"that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God
raised Him from the dead, you will be saved"

And as we all know, true faith bears fruit.

indeed, my brother in Christ and son of the Most High God, and we assume repentence is a given, amen?
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brinny

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Yes. Repentance isn't a work of man, it's a work of the Spirit inside of us at the moment of our belief.

Aah yes, praise God for it. The Holy Spirit worketh in the heart and turns said heart from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh. Amen.
 
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Christos Anesti

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Yes. Repentance isn't a work of man, it's a work of the Spirit

It's a work of the Spirit in synergy with man though. He doesn't "force" repentance on us.

us at the moment of our belief.

Shouldn't repentance be a life long practice though and not just something you do once when you first believe?
 
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Albion

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It's a work of the Spirit in synergy with man though. He doesn't "force" repentance on us.



Shouldn't repentance be a life long practice though and not just something you do once when you first believe?

Is it possible to be "forced" when given that which everyone desperately wants? And as for repentance, yes it is a lifelong practice, but that doesn't change anything about how we come to have the faith.
 
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PStephens

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It's a work of the Spirit in synergy with man though. He doesn't "force" repentance on us.

Man is not saved by his own works. He can not save himself. Repentance is a work of God and at the moment of belief, man is then naturally brought to repentance because he then sees his sin and desires to turn from it.

Shouldn't repentance be a life long practice though and not just something you do once when you first believe?
Of course it should be. Repentance at the moment of salvation is but seeds. As we continue to walk in our faith, we become more repentant and more humble before God.

Albion said:
Is it possible to be "forced" when given that which everyone desperately wants? And as for repentance, yes it is a lifelong practice, but that doesn't change anything about how we come to have the faith.

The grace of God is irresistible. So I agree with you. :)
 
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Dorothea

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what has any of what you posted to do with the message of salvation and the utter direness of sin and how sin must be obliterated before a holy God, through the Saviour Who died an abominable death on a cross to bring life to the dead? For life is IN Jesus the Christ and none other. And life is given through Him through repentence and turning away from sin. Fruits of the Spirit develop after the Life of Christ is in the person who was once dead but is alive in Christ.

All others who have not repented are dead men walking.
Yes, Christ trampled down death by death and bestowed life to those in the tombs. :)

And with that, I'm going to just lurk from now on. I don't wish to argue about this with you. I shared my beliefs, and so, we can agree to disagree on this subject. I prefer to focus on my own salvation and pray for all in the world. God bless you. :wave:
 
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Dorothea

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Frankly, I do not think that it's "judging" to say that certain groups or types of people are bound for hell--based upon what we believe the Bible teaches. That's a matter of doctrine, not judging. And we also realize that our guesswork is not iron-clad, that we could be deceived by outward appearances.

We all know that God is the only one who will actually make the final decision on any of us.
Agreed. :)
 
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brinny

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Yes, Christ trampled down death by death and bestowed life to those in the tombs. :)

And with that, I'm going to just lurk from now on. I don't wish to argue about this with you. I shared my beliefs, and so, we can agree to disagree on this subject. I prefer to focus on my own salvation and pray for all in the world. God bless you. :wave:

Agreed. We can disagree amicably and leave it at that
4chsmu1.gif
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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PaladinValer

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Israel is God's elect. They are His chosen people. God saves His elect. Those verses did not say that the whole world is saved.

Who is Israel other than the Church? The Jews unfortunately rejected the New Covenant, so unless one leaves Judaism and ceases to be a Jew and instead is Baptized a Christian and grafted into Christianity, then they are not a member of Israel.

And thinking about it, I don't think to say all are saved is selfless at all. I think it's selfish. What's selfless is when a man or woman of God lays down their life for the sake of their King Jesus and declares that they will serve Him and preach His truth no matter what the cost. It's selfless when a Christian sacrifices themselves in prayer, fasting, and patient discipling for the sake of bringing the person to salvation.

I disagree. Unfortunately, a lot of people do things not out of love but out of fear. A great deal of Christian traditions unfortunately have the idea that we need to install a fear of hell, the Devil, etc., into out witnessing and evangelism.

There is a huge difference between the Christian who acts out of love of God and the Christian who acts out of fear of God.

Yes. Repentance isn't a work of man, it's a work of the Spirit inside of us at the moment of our belief.

Repentance is to change one's mind; to adopt God's Will as our own will when we have decided not to follow in God's Way. This does require the Holy Spirit, but it also involves our own choice to return to our fallen cross and pick it up again.

God will not force us to do anything we don't want to do. God enables us to do that which He wants us to to. A person need only to accept God's gift and begin their new life in the Way, or, in this case, to return to the Way after stepping off the path.

Man is not saved by his own works. He can not save himself.

In himself and by himself (or herself, of course), no.

However, grace must be cooperated with. We are not mindless automatons but living creatures with a soul and spirit of our own. Yes, that spirit is impaired and our soul broken by our fallen nature, but it is obscured, not totally depraved, for Christ is the hope of all the world. One need only to hear God call and respond.

Repentance is a work of God and at the moment of belief, man is then naturally brought to repentance because he then sees his sin and desires to turn from it.

You just contradicted yourself, thereby agreeing with the rest of us. Notice the bold: "HE (here, the human person in question) then sees his sin and desires to turn from it." That is a personal choice. Empowered by the Holy Spirit, but not forced.

Of course it should be. Repentance at the moment of salvation is but seeds. As we continue to walk in our faith, we become more repentant and more humble before God.

Theosis does make it easier, but only if we continue in it. The moment we slip up, it gets hard again, as we will have taken several steps back.

The grace of God is irresistible. So I agree with you. :)

Grace is entirely resistible. Otherwise there would never be heresy or apostates.
 
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Christos Anesti

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Man is not united to God against his own will. If he was then history would be a cruel and pointless spectacle. A loving God would have perfectly united everyone to himself a long time ago rather than go through this pointless drama if man played no part whatsoever. We are co-workers with Christ.

If man plays no part in repentance why wouldn't God simply give everyone repentance ? Does He supposedly enjoy people suffering in hell?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Man is not united to God against his own will. If he was than history would be a cruel and pointless spectacle. A loving God would have perfectly united everyone to himself a long time ago rather than go through this pointless drama if man played no part whatsoever. We are co-workers with Christ.

If man plays no part in repentance why wouldn't God simply give everyone repentance ? Does He supposedly enjoy people suffering in hell?
May I add that to this other thread? :wave:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7084133/
Difference between Repent and Reform question
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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hmmm. This is a little off topic but you know what I hate? Then and Than. I always get confused which one to use. Good thing I finally decided to go back to school and I'm taking an English writing class this semester:D
:angel:

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

then  /ðɛn/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [th
thinsp.png
en] Show IPA ,

Use then in a Sentence


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–adverb 1.at that time: Prices were lower then. 2.immediately or soon afterward: The rain stopped and then started again. 3.next in order of time: We ate, then we started home. 4.at the same time: At first the water seemed blue, then gray. 5.next in order of place: Standing beside Charlie is my uncle, then my cousin, then my brother. 6.in addition; besides; also: I love my job, and then it pays so well. 7.in that case; as a consequence; in those circumstances: If you're sick, then you should stay in bed. 8.since that is so; as it appears; therefore: You have, then, found the mistake? You are leaving tonight then.


than  /ðæn, ðɛn; unstressed ðən, ən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [th
thinsp.png
an, th
thinsp.png
en; unstressed th
thinsp.png
uh
thinsp.png
n, uh
thinsp.png
n] Show IPA

Use than in a Sentence


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–conjunction 1.(used, as after comparative adjectives and adverbs, to introduce the second member of an unequal comparison): She's taller than I am. 2.(used after some adverbs and adjectives expressing choice or diversity, such as other, otherwise, else, anywhere, or different, to introduce an alternative or denote a difference in kind, place, style, identity, etc.): I had no choice other than that. You won't find such freedom anywhere else than in this country. 3.(used to introduce the rejected choice in expressions of preference): I'd rather walk than drive there. 4.except; other than: We had no choice than to return home. 5.when: We had barely arrived than we had to leave again.
 
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