Differance between differant baptists?

[Koontzy]

what is really the differance between the SBC, American Baptists, Independant, findamental baptists and ect....

thanks

 

[Ragamuffins]

Pride, ego, slaves, gay rights, liberalism, fundimentalism, KJV only, CCM,...

 

[Crazy Liz]

what is really the differance between the SBC, American Baptists, Independant, findamental baptists and ect....

thanks

Do you mean differance as articulated by Derrida? That would be an interesting question....

...or did you just misspell difference?

 

[Singinman]

Since you asked about Baptists, lets leave out the anabaptists for a later thread.

Theologically there are two major divisions- general baptists, who believe in free will, free grace, and not in once saved always saved (OSAS) and Calvanistic Baptists (SBC, ABC, and most, but not all, smaller more fundamental baptist associations). These folks believe in OSAS, pre-destination, more pastoral control over the congregation and second place for the women.

The largest groups are the SBC, ABC and National Baptists. SBC split from ABC over slavery and is the more conservative of the large white denominations. The Nationals are Black Baptists.

There are mission minded Baptists, SBC & ABC and antimission Baptists (Primitive Baptists). There are several kinds of PBs. The main split being the Progressive Primitive Baptists who believe in Sunday Schools. The PBs are also opposed to instremental music in the church, but they can and do sing. Acapella, lined out text and tunes and harmonies rarely heard outside their own churches. It is incredibly wild and beautiful. If you ever get a chance to go to a hymn sing at one of their churches, Go! The food is also wonderful.

There are extremes of belief on salvation and grace- from the universalist free will Baptist (who believe that all are going to heaven) to the Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Pre-destinarian Baptist who believe that conception determines your good or bad seed so there is no need to fret about it. Your are going to heaven or hell by God's choice and there is nothing you can do about it. These folks may have died out by now.

There are six-principle baptists and other kinds of baptists up the the Appalchian south who are rarely heard from. One of these is the No-hell Baptists. They believe we make our own hell on earth and there is no literal everlasting hell.

There are many more and I wish I could recommend a good book, but there is not one that is currant.

The new kid on the block is the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship which grew out of the fundamentalist takeover of the SBC. The split was over degrees of control and freedom. The CBF now carries the banner of Priesthood of the believer, equal rights for women in the church to be deacons, pastors, and sunday school teachers of gender mixed classes.

This answer is down and dirty. I may have missed a few details. There used to be over 50 separate Baptist bodies in this country. There may be a few more or less today. And this does not even address the ethic Baptists of european origen. There are or were Baptists churches for every immagrant population from non-english speaking countries.

Hope this helps.

 

[JPPT1974]

Pride, ego, slaves, gay rights, liberalism, fundimentalism, KJV only, CCM,...

Couldn't agree with you anymore nor any better!

 

[Koontzy]

I grew up ABC and my wifes dad is a sbc preacher,,,, as far as I know abc and sbc believe in free will, and not predestination..


Thx

 

[Singinman]

Both the ABC and the SBC trace their lineage to Particular Baptists who were Calvinists. The ABC has changed through the years somewhat. The SBC, after years of tolerating both predestination and free have moved toward rigid Calvinism. Al Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, KY and one of the chief theologians in the development of the Baptist Faith and Message, 2000, stated it this way, "Every Christian, every Baptist has to believe in predestination ... and limited atonement." I guess that means Episcopalians, Lutherans, CBFers, Catholics, and Methodists are not Christians. The BFM 2000 also changed the old Baptist thinking on Christ and the Bible. The old position was that Jesus Christ was the "criterion by which the Bible is to be interpreted." The new position is that the Bible is the basis for interpreting Jesus Christ. It seems to be saying that the Bible is a higher authority than Jesus is.

 

[DiscipleOfIAm]

I know one thing they all have in common............food!! All Baptists like food and eating!!

 

[HumbleMan]

The thing is, the SBC doesn't define doctrine for the Baptist church. Each church is still autonomous.

 

[Crazy Liz]

The thing is, the SBC doesn't define doctrine for the Baptist church. Each church is still autonomous.

But they will kick a church out of the SBC if it refuses to conform in certain areas, no?

 

[HumbleMan]

But they will kick a church out of the SBC if it refuses to conform in certain areas, no?

I'm not sure, but I think the convention can vote to sever fellowship with individual churches.

 

[eldermike]

But they will kick a church out of the SBC if it refuses to conform in certain areas, no?

Not really. There is no actual "in" to the SBC, so by default there is no out. The SBC supports local churches when asked. There are SBC churches that still hold the original faith and message statement. The only place where the SBC has power is with paid staff. The church I attend has yet to vote on the 2000 message. This structure is not well understood outside the SBC.

 

[HumbleMan]

Not really. There is no actual "in" to the SBC, so by default there is no out. The SBC supports local churches when asked. There are SBC churches that still hold the original faith and message statement. The only place where the SBC has power is with paid staff. The church I attend has yet to vote on the 2000 message. This structure is not well understood outside the SBC.

How much sway does the SBC hold with the seminaries (SWBTS, SBTS, SEBTS)?

 

[eldermike]

How much sway does the SBC hold with the seminaries (SWBTS, SBTS, SEBTS)?

I know of one. There is influence there.

 

[Singinman]

When dicussing the "new" SBC, one cannot rely on memories of days long gone. Since BFM 2000, there is a new order in the convention.

The SBC has always appointed seminary trustees to all Southern Baptist Seminaries. Since 2000 all of these trustees must sign up for BFM 2000. All professors and staff must sign up for BFM 2000. All missionaries must sign up for BFM 2000. Seminary students are encouraged to report professors for anything percieved as heresy.

As to the autonomy of the local church the SBC still pays lip service to the doctrine, but if any church defies the SBC by ordaining women as deacons or ministers, or permitting women to teach men the SBC can and has asked the local association to evict the church from the association. This evicts the church from the SBC.

In Virginia, the situation is complex. We have two state conventions. We have the Baptist General Association of Virginia (BGAV) which is older than the SBC by considerable years and a pure SBC state convention which is only a few years old. I do not believe at this time that any Virginia church is dually aligned with both state conventions, but there are churches aligned through their local associations that are dually aligned with the SBC and the CBF. The SBC is perfectly happy taking BGAV money. Local associations in many areas have split, with the drop outs aligning with the new state convention.

Make no mistake the new SBC is run from the top. The new presidents are hand picked by the Good Old Boys club. Any discent is crushed. All of the missionaries who had given years of service to the Kingdom were told to affirm BFM 200, retire or be fired. My did retire and some were fired. All seminary professors toe the line or get fired. Churches affirming women as equal to men are being brought to heel or are being throwout of their local associations.

I suspect that in a few years there will not be one original thought in the SBC that does not come out of Convention HQ in Nashville.

 

[JPPT1974]

I grew and was raised SBC but I consider myself an Christian who is saved by the grace, mercy, and eternal salvation in Christ Jesus as my Savior & Lord.

 

[NPH]

Hi there!

I'm a former Catholic/former Baptist/now Catholic again and in my particular area of Arkansas every Southern Baptist church I ever attended, without exception to my knowledge, held to the free will version of OSAS and not to the predestination calvinist type of OSAS.

From what i'm reading here, this seems to have changed? Does the SBC now expect of it's member churches to hold to predestination?

I would like to know, because my mother is still a practicing Baptist (in an SBC church) and though I know she would be dismayed to hear this (she is very steadfastly free will) it would be useful to let her know so that she might consider another Baptist church that holds more closely to what she believes.

Thanks for any answer and God Bless you all!

 

[Historicus]

The National Association of Free Will Baptists is another large denomination (not as large as the SBC of course). They are not Universalists. There are smaller groups that may be universalists, but the denomination I was part of was not.

Have a blessed day!

Christ's Peace,
-Svdbygrace

 

[Singinman]

Hi there!

I would like to know, because my mother is still a practicing Baptist (in an SBC church) and though I know she would be dismayed to hear this (she is very steadfastly free will) it would be useful to let her know so that she might consider another Baptist church that holds more closely to what she believes.

I think your mother is safe for awhile, but the leadership is solidly calvinist and they want control so sooner or later, free grace folks will feel the heat. When that time comes they can either leave the church which has been their spiritual refuge for most of a lifetime or the church, as a whole can find a haven in the CBF.

 

[Hisbygrace]

what is really the differance between the SBC, American Baptists, Independant, findamental baptists and ect....

thanks

Their doctrines