Did Wesley really reject God?

[Krillin]

Recently I heard of a supposed letter that John Wesley had written to his brother where he claimed that he didn't love God, and never had.

Does anyone know anything about this? I'm sorry that I don't have more info to give.

 

[GraceSeeker]

I do know that prior to his 1738 Aldersgate experience there were many times that Wesley doubted his faith and his salvation. You might be referring to something from that time period.

 

[skypair]

I do know that prior to his 1738 Aldersgate experience there were many times that Wesley doubted his faith and his salvation. You might be referring to something from that time period.

Yes, I believe I can confirm that from my reading of "What Wesleyans Believe."

skypair

 

[HoganWynne]

I do know that prior to his 1738 Aldersgate experience there were many times that Wesley doubted his faith and his salvation. You might be referring to something from that time period.

Yet again, a commonality between Fr. Wesley and I. Gotta love this man.

 

[kala83]

hmm I don't know much about the founder of the Methodist church but lol I must say your comments make this lurking little seeker wish to study more on it.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Wesley was converted to Christ through reading Luther's commentary to the Galatians, when he found his 'heart strangely warmed'.

 

[GraceSeeker]

hmm I don't know much about the founder of the Methodist church but lol I must say your comments make this lurking little seeker wish to study more on it.

Check out these places to learn more:


Christian Classics Ethereal Library


The Wesley Center Online


John Wesley Sermons


article on John Wesley in "Christian History" magazine online article

 

[Anto9us]

Wesley wasn't just "reading" Luther's commentary on Romans at Aldersgate -- he was LISTENING TO A LAYMAN read the commentary...

he already being an Anglican clergyman -- so it was in a way humbling even to be there in this laypeople group -- much less for the Anglican clergyman trained all his life as a minister to "find his heart strangely warmed" at hearing Luther's commentary

Wesley -- who had been a missionary to America to "convert Indians" (which he found to be a flop) -- and on the voyage back from that -- in danger of foundering and drowning -- he was impressed by the Moravians and their calm in the face of imminent disaster on the ship -- envious of their faith

so definitely - prior to Aldersgate -- he "had his moments of doubt and pain"

SOMETHING HAPPENNED hearing/reading Luther's commentary on Romans

and because of that something -- we are here in this forum

 

[RomansFiveEight]

Yep. Something happened. The Holy Spirit's real, tangible, feel-able, physical work is a big part of Methodism. Because our founder experienced it himself. Suddenly communion can't just be a symbol and worship can't just be something to kill an hour. Suddenly, it has to be real, tangible, physical. Wesley experienced this.

Wesley was an ordained Priest and struggling deeply with his faith; at times unsure if he even had a faith in God. Yes, that's very true! Methodism came at a time after this.

 

[Anto9us]

"Wesley was converted to Christ through reading Luther's commentary to the Galatians"

not true -- as said earlier -- it was Luther's COMMENTARY ON ROMANS (not Galatians) - Wesley was hearing it read aloud by a layperson at a meeting

he was a long-time member of the Anglican Clergy sitting at a meeting of laypeople

 

[RomansFiveEight]

"Wesley was converted to Christ through reading Luther's commentary to the Galatians"

not true -- as said earlier -- it was Luther's COMMENTARY ON ROMANS (not Galatians) - Wesley was hearing it read aloud by a layperson at a meeting

he was a long-time member of the Anglican Clergy sitting at a meeting of laypeople

I gave a talk at a youth event one time and I talked about the Wesleyan understandings of growing in Christ. Living in a very SBC dominated area it's actually not uncommon for me to be stopped on the street with some overzealous evangelist who will bark "ARE YOU SAVED!?!?!?". My favorite response is, "I'm working on it!". Boy you've never seen bibles and pamphlets fly at you so fast. (I reminded them that I am not unsure of my salvation, and I am not unsure of where I'll arrive when I'm dead. But that doesn't mean I'm not working on my salvation each day) That line struck a chord with a kid who said "Wow, you're a Pastor and you're still working on your salvation. That's really cool".

I guess, since I'm a Pastor, I don't find us Clergy to be all that exciting or superhuman. But, I wonder if there are others who seem to have an idea that we've got it all figured out, and don't struggle and wrestle with our faith and our own salvation like they do?

Which is why that story of John Wesley; who wasn't just an Anglican Priest, but a "sometime fellow" of Anglicanism most prestigious institute of higher learning, a missionary to foreign countries on behalf of the church and a leader, even at that time, within the communion. And even he wrestled with his salvation and had to take time to stop, reflect, and truly be changed. Wesley's conversion experience is inspirational.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Who hasn't felt upset with God at one time or another. He understands the struggle we face and I think telling God I'm upset even at you is a good thing, because it's honest and it opens us up for healing.

One time I had just moved away from my family for the first time. Just out of Army basic training and I locked my keys in my trunk. 300 miles from home, didnt know anyone. I was a shy guy, 18 yrs old and I had to be at work in the morning at 6 am and it was now 10 pm. I was beyond stressed and annoyed. I yelled out, 'God I can't do it anymore, please leave me alone, I'm tired of the tests.." (not that I had any idea what a test was but still)... Wouldn't you know it, as soon as I said that a stranger comes by in a truck, no idea I needed help (I wasn't flagging people down), he jumps out of his truck, crawls through the cab of my car (it didn't have a trunk release lever) and opend my trunk from the inside. Sure enough there my keys were, right on the lip of the trunk. I said, "Good luck" jumped in his truck and I have not seen him since. I still believe that may have been an angel of God sent to help me because I told God what was happening. Isn't he great?!

 

[GraceSeeker]

he was a long-time member of the Anglican Clergy sitting at a meeting of laypeople

And he only went there because his brother told him to.

 

[Anto9us]

heh.

And what did Paul mean by saying "I count not myself to have apprehended" ??

Would the Bibles and pamphlets fly at Paul - would he be accosted with "Aren't you sure of your salvation?"

 

[RomansFiveEight]

heh.

And what did Paul mean by saying "I count not myself to have apprehended" ??

Would the Bibles and pamphlets fly at Paul - would he be accosted with "Aren't you sure of your salvation?"

Since the sinners-prayer OSAS insta-salvation-by-a-single-act theology didn't exist for the vast, vast, VAST majority of Christian history (really not until the last couple of centuries, and only on the fringes even then except for the last few decades); I'd say there are quite a few historic theologians, leaders, and other great Christians who would be similarly accosted by some of the evangelists I encounter.

 

[FireDragon76]

No, it's not true. Wesley sometimes was prone to doubting in his earlier years, but then a great many religious people have struggled with this issue . The real matter is not whether we doubt or not but the faithfulness of Christ to his promises delivered in our baptism.

 

[BipolarBear46]

He may have a few times but we all return to our faith if our faith was true.