Did they bury Jesus before or after sunset?

[tonychanyt]

The synoptic gospels indicated Jesus died around the ninth hour, i.e., about 3 PM (Mark 15:34, Matthew 27:46, Luke 23:44) on a Preparation day, i.e., Friday. Joseph of Arimathea knew that Sabbath was coming.

ESV, Mk 15:

42 And when evening had come, since it was the day of Preparation, that is, the day before the Sabbath, 43Joseph of Arimathea, a respected member of the council, who was also himself looking for the kingdom of God, took courage and went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.

evening
ὀψίας (opsias)
Adjective - Genitive Feminine Singular
Strong's 3798: Late, evening. From opse; late; feminine afternoon or nightfall.
Strong's Greek: 3798. ὄψιος (opsios) — 15 Occurrences

G3798 was ambiguous. BDAG:
① as adj. pert. to a point in time that is relatively later than another point of time, late
② In our lit. mostly subst. the period between late afternoon and darkness, evening

Parallel account, NIV, Matthew 27:

57 As evening approached, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who had himself become a disciple of Jesus.

approached
γενομένης (genomenēs)
Verb - Aorist Participle Middle - Genitive Feminine Singular
Strong's 1096: A prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be, i.e. to become, used with great latitude.

They were running late into the beginning of the Sabbath.

Parallel account, ESV, Jn 19:

38 After these things Joseph of Arimathea, who was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus, and Pilate gave him permission. So he came and took away his body. 39Nicodemus also, who earlier had come to Jesuse by night, came bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds in weight. 40 So they took the body of Jesus and bound it in linen cloths with the spices, as is the burial custom of the Jews. 41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb in which no one had yet been laid. 42 So because of the Jewish day of Preparation [G3904], since the tomb was close at hand, they laid Jesus there.

The Jewish Day of Preparation referred to a Friday. It was the end of it. Sabbath was beginning. Joseph and Nicodemus tried to beat the sunset.

Parallel account, Berean Literal Bible, Lk 23:

50 And behold, a man named Joseph, being also a Council member, a good and righteous man— 51he was not having consented to their counsel and deed—from Arimathea, a city of the Jews, who was waiting for the kingdom of God. 52 He having gone to Pilate, asked for the body of Jesus. 53 And having taken it down, he wrapped it in a linen cloth and placed it in a tomb cut in a rock, in which no one yet had been laid. 54 And it was the Day of Preparation, and Sabbath was just beginning.

was just beginning
ἐπέφωσκεν (epephōsken)
Verb - Imperfect Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 2020: To dawn, be near commencing. A form of epiphauo; to begin to grow light.
Strong's Greek: 2020. ἐπιφώσκω (epiphóskó) — 2 Occurrences

The G2020 dawning metaphor is a bit confusing but note the imperfect tense. The beginning of the Sabbath was not yet finished. They didn't have a mechanical watch, so the timing of the beginning of the Sabbath from their observational point of view was imprecise.

ESV, Lk 23:

55 The women who had come with him from Galilee followed and saw the tomb and how his body was laid. 56 Then they returned and prepared spices and ointments.

Mary Magdalene et al learned the location of the tomb. They would return more than 24 hours later, after the Sabbath.

On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.

The men and the women observed the weekly Sabbath rest.

The men did what they could to quickly wrap Jesus' body and spread the spices inside the tomb. The sun might have already set when they came out of the tomb. After the Sabbath, Mary Magdalene et al intended intended to perform more meticulous work on Jesus' body.

Did they bury Jesus before or after sunset?

They were in a hurry to place Jesus' body into the tomb to beat the sundown. By the time they emerged, the sun might have already dipped below the horizon, but not by much.

 

[PesachPup]

The Berean Bible is incorrect in Luke 23:54 to say that the Sabbath was beginning. Just a couple verses later in Luke, it says that when the women (who followed Joseph) discovered where he had laid the body of Jesus, THEN went home and prepared spices and then rested on the sabbath day.

Luke 23:56


BBE And they went back and got ready spices and perfumes; and on the Sabbath they took their rest, in agreement with the law.


BSB Then they returned to prepare spices and perfumes. And they rested on the Sabbath, according to the commandment.


EasyEnglish Then they returned to the house where they were staying in Jerusalem. There they prepared seeds with a strong smell and expensive oil that had a beautiful smell. Then they stopped work because their day for rest was starting. They were obeying the rules in the book of God.


ISV Then they went back and prepared spices and perfumes, and on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.


KJV And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.


KJV And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.


NET Then they returned and prepared aromatic spices and perfumes. On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.


NHEB They returned, and prepared spices and ointments. On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.


WEB They returned and prepared spices and ointments. On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.

If Jesus had been buried late in the day of Preparation , less than 3 hours before the sabbath, imo, there is not enough time for Pilate to enquire of the centurion, after the appeal of Joseph for his body, then to bury the body and then for the women to prepare the spices; there was not enough time for all this to take place before the sabbath began at sundown.

Reading all accounts, it is likely that Joseph made his appeal to Pilate, very soon after Jesus died at 3 pm. But then Pilate has to then make request of the centurion whether Jesus was already dead. Remember Jesus died before the 2 thieves did. It was then that the Jews besought Pilate to break every one's legs to hasten death. This was after 3 pm. But when they went (More time elapsing) they found Jesus dead. But then they had to spend time breaking the thieves legs. More time elapsed before Pilate got word of the pre-eminent death of Jesus. Pilate then gives the okay to Joseph. Joseph then has to travel back to golgotha. More time elapsed. Joseph took down the body of Jesus. More time elapsed. Joseph went and bought fine linen. More time elapsed. And then take Jesus to the tomb. More time elapsed. And then it says:

Mar 15:42 KJV And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,

It doesn't make sense to me that all these things take place between 3 and 6 pm of the preparation day before the women realize where Jesus is buried, to have enough time before the sabbath to begin (at 6pm) to prepare spices before the sabbath was to begin. The women were obedient to the command to rest on the whole of the sabbath. Just not enough time for me. The testimony of the 2 Emmaus disciples on Sunday afternoon cinches it for me that Jesus died late in the day on Thursday.

There are 2 distinct prophecies (made by Jesus Himself) that he would be resurrected (egeiro) on the 3rd day and also to ascend to heaven (anistemi) to the Father as well on the 3rd day. Jesus didn't ascend to the Father until after he was seen after daybreak on Sunday. He was resurrected at some point in time before that ascension. Both took place on the 3rd day after. He resurrected before dawn because the angels told the women so. The only time that can fit two different "3rd day" intervals for the resurrection and ascension can only mean that he was crucified on a Thursday. One was before dawn the other was after dawn. The resurrection (early pre-dawn Sunday) would not be the third day after his crucifixion (in no possible fashion) if the crucifixion AND burial all took place on a Friday.

Be Blessed
The PuP

 

[PesachPup]

The Berean Bible is incorrect in Luke 23:54 to say that the Sabbath was beginning. Just a couple verses later in Luke, it says that when the women (who followed Joseph) discovered where he had laid the body of Jesus, THEN went home and prepared spices and then rested on the sabbath day.

Luke 23:56


BBE And they went back and got ready spices and perfumes; and on the Sabbath they took their rest, in agreement with the law.


BSB Then they returned to prepare spices and perfumes. And they rested on the Sabbath, according to the commandment.


EasyEnglish Then they returned to the house where they were staying in Jerusalem. There they prepared seeds with a strong smell and expensive oil that had a beautiful smell. Then they stopped work because their day for rest was starting. They were obeying the rules in the book of God.


ISV Then they went back and prepared spices and perfumes, and on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.


KJV And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.


KJV And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.


NET Then they returned and prepared aromatic spices and perfumes. On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.


NHEB They returned, and prepared spices and ointments. On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.


WEB They returned and prepared spices and ointments. On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.

If Jesus had been buried late in the day of Preparation , less than 3 hours before the sabbath, imo, there is not enough time for Pilate to enquire of the centurion, after the appeal of Joseph for his body, then to bury the body and then for the women to prepare the spices; there was not enough time for all this to take place before the sabbath began at sundown.

Reading all accounts, it is likely that Joseph made his appeal to Pilate, very soon after Jesus died at 3 pm. But then Pilate has to then make request of the centurion whether Jesus was already dead. Remember Jesus died before the 2 thieves did. It was then that the Jews besought Pilate to break every one's legs to hasten death. This was after 3 pm. But when they went (More time elapsing) they found Jesus dead. But then they had to spend time breaking the thieves legs. More time elapsed before Pilate got word of the pre-eminent death of Jesus. Pilate then gives the okay to Joseph. Joseph then has to travel back to golgotha. More time elapsed. Joseph took down the body of Jesus. More time elapsed. Joseph went and bought fine linen. More time elapsed. And then take Jesus to the tomb. More time elapsed. And then it says:

Mar 15:42 KJV And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,

It doesn't make sense to me that all these things take place between 3 and 6 pm of the preparation day before the women realize where Jesus is buried, to have enough time before the sabbath to begin (at 6pm) to prepare spices before the sabbath was to begin. The women were obedient to the command to rest on the whole of the sabbath. Just not enough time for me. The testimony of the 2 Emmaus disciples on Sunday afternoon cinches it for me that Jesus died late in the day on Thursday.

There are 2 distinct prophecies (made by Jesus Himself) that he would be resurrected (egeiro) on the 3rd day and also to ascend to heaven (anistemi) to the Father as well on the 3rd day. Jesus didn't ascend to the Father until after he was seen after daybreak on Sunday. He was resurrected at some point in time before that ascension. Both took place on the 3rd day after. He resurrected before dawn because the angels told the women so. The only time that can fit two different "3rd day" intervals for the resurrection and ascension can only mean that he was crucified on a Thursday. One was before dawn the other was after dawn. The resurrection (early pre-dawn Sunday) would not be the third day after his crucifixion (in no possible fashion) if the crucifixion AND burial all took place on a Friday.

Be Blessed
The PuP

The women followed Joseph to the tomb. Reducing their available time before the sabbath to prepare spices.

Luk 23:55 KJV And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

The PuP

 

[awstar]

There are 2 distinct prophecies (made by Jesus Himself) that he would be resurrected (egeiro) on the 3rd day and also to ascend to heaven (anistemi) to the Father as well on the 3rd day. Jesus didn't ascend to the Father until after he was seen after daybreak on Sunday. He was resurrected at some point in time before that ascension. Both took place on the 3rd day after. He resurrected before dawn because the angels told the women so. The only time that can fit two different "3rd day" intervals for the resurrection and ascension can only mean that he was crucified on a Thursday. One was before dawn the other was after dawn. The resurrection (early pre-dawn Sunday) would not be the third day after his crucifixion (in no possible fashion) if the crucifixion AND burial all took place on a Friday.

Jesus died (on the first day, before sunset), Jesus was buried (close to sunset, before the start of the sabbath on the first day), Jesus body stayed buried, sunset to sunset, the second day) After sunset the second day, comes the third day. 12 hours after sunset of the second day, Jesus is resurrected (on the third day)



If the first day is Thursday, then the third day would be Saturday, no? If the first day is Friday, then the third day would be Sunday, yes?

 

[tonychanyt]

I added some to the OP for clarification. Take another look.

THEN went home and prepared spices and then rested on the sabbath day.

So, the women prepared the spices on the Sabbath day?

 

[PesachPup]

I added some to the OP for clarification. Take another look.


So, the women prepared the spices on the Sabbath day?

No. It says they did so on the preparation day, the day before the sabbath. And then rested on the sabbath.

Luk 23:54-56 KJV 54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. 55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

The women follow Joseph all the way to the tomb. Then they went home and prepared their spices, before the sabbath began. IF Jesus had died on and was buried on the preparation day, there is not time left in the day for the women to prepare their spices.

In Mark 15:42, it says, "...when the evening was come (ginomai), because it was the preparation..." The word ginomai speaks of coming to know with the mind... thru understanding. It implies a change to a new day. Understanding came to them that it was a new day because the evening had come. They understood it to be the preparation day.

Be Blessed
The PuP

 

[tonychanyt]

No. It says they did so on the preparation day, the day before the sabbath. And then rested on the sabbath.

When did Mary Magdalene see Joseph bury Jesus?

When did she prepare the spices for the body of Jesus?

 

[PesachPup]

When did Mary Magdalene see Joseph bury Jesus?

When did she prepare the spices for the body of Jesus?

Mat 27:57-62 KJV 57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple: 58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered. 59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre. 62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

This makes the 3rd time for the following verses:

Luk 23:54-56 KJV 54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. 55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

In Matt 27:57-62, we see that it was Joseph who put the stone in front of Jesus's sepulchre. We also him declaring in v62 that the day before was the preparation day meaning that was the day that Joseph buried Jesus. And it clearly says that Mary magdalene sat over against the sepulchre stone, before the Pharisees put a seal upon the door.

Now back to Joseph rolling a stone upon the door. These women, included Mary Magdalene, who prepared spices on the preparation day (and rested on the sabbath), would be denied by Joseph to apply the burial spices? So you would have to conclude that Joseph didn't seal the tomb until they got back with the spices. All that took place, according to Matthew 27:62 on the preparation day, before the sabbath arrived. Do do you think that all the events that have been described to have taken place after the death of Jesus at 3 pm could have been completed before 6 pm? This includes the time that Joseph had to wait on sealing the sepulchre until the women had went and prepared spices and exact them upon Jesus' body? I don't. The next day was the day after the preparation.

Be Blessed
The PuP

 

[tonychanyt]

So you would have to conclude that Joseph didn't seal the tomb until they got back with the spices.

Are you familiar with First-Order Logic?

 

[PesachPup]

Are you familiar with First-Order Logic?

No and I don't think that makes a difference. I showed you they traveled with him to the tomb. So let me ask you again. Do you think that Joseph would close the tomb before allowing the women to give Jesus a proper burial with the spices they prepared?
The PuP

 

[tonychanyt]

Do you think that Joseph would close the tomb before allowing the women to give Jesus a proper burial with the spices they prepared?

This is where First-Order Logic comes in. I don't see why not.

Mt 27:
57When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea named Joseph, who himself was a disciple of Jesus. 58He went to Pilate to ask for the body of Jesus, and Pilate ordered that it be given to him. 59So Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut into the rock. Then he rolled a great stone across the entrance to the tomb and went away. 61Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were sitting there opposite the tomb.

This passage makes FOL sense.