Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

[nolidad]

Quote with source and date?

There are several sources from which he could have drawn the term e.g. Luke 22:20; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews 9:15.

2537 [e]
kainē
καινὴ
new
Adj-NFS

1242 [e]
diathēkē
διαθήκη
covenant
N-NFS

diathéké: testament, will, covenant

Well we are talking about the new testament as a book like the old testament is a book But from bible wiki:

Use of the term New Testament to describe a collection of first and second-century Christian Greek scriptures can be traced back to Tertullian (in Against Praxeas 15). In Against Marcion, written c. 208 AD, he writes of: the Divine Word, who is doubly edged with the twotestaments of the law and the gospel.

2 Corinthians 3
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

An obvious reference to the Torah, which contains all of the testamentary covenant clauses except for the Davidic.

Under one set of covers, in Paul's time.

and Paul was referring to the Pentateuch not the whole Jewish Scripture.

I fully agree that the use of the words old and new referred to the covenants. as for books of the bible there are only two and the new was coined by Tertullian.

In actuality God has made 8 Covenanats with people.

Adamic
Edenic
Noahic
Abrahamic
Palestinian
Davidic
Mosaic
New

 

[nolidad]

Interesting.
Most futurists I've come across assert that the 2nd temple could not possibly have fulfilled Zeke's Prophesy. They assert there are too many details in the prophesy that do not match.

What makes you think it does?

Werll I do not think that in all the minutae of measurements they have actually have historical records to verify that! But when you read all those chapters, and compare them with life in the millenial kingdom- they absolutely do not match! So it is either the 2nd temple or possibly the soon to be built third temple.

I hold the second simply because there was no prophesy prior to the Olivet Discourse that spoke of the destruction of the second Temple. At this time there was no second temple and the first had just been destroyed!

 

[parousia70]

Werll I do not think that in all the minutae of measurements they have actually have historical records to verify that!

Ok... so you allow for some "wiggle room" in prophetic fulfillment..
That is good to know.

But when you read all those chapters, and compare them with life in the millenial kingdom- they absolutely do not match!

I would agree with that..
I would be curious as to where you are reading about "life in the millennial kingdom"... are you solely referring to Revelation 20? (because there's not much detail there about "life" during that time)..or are you drawing inference from anywhere else? and if so, where does scripture teach you to draw such inference?

So it is either the 2nd temple or possibly the soon to be built third temple.

What do you mean by soon?
Do you mean the same thing the apostles meant when they said these things were coming "soon" or are you using a different definition of the term than the apostles used?

This is one I can never get any futurist to pin down.... on one breath they say soon means thousands of years and in the next they say it means weeks, months, years or decades at most, effectively rendering the term "soon" when they use it, totally meaningless.

I hold the second simply because there was no prophesy prior to the Olivet Discourse that spoke of the destruction of the second Temple. At this time there was no second temple and the first had just been destroyed!

You don't believe Daniel 9:26 prophesies of the 2nd temples destruction?:

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

[jgr]

Well we are talking about the new testament as a book like the old testament is a book But from bible wiki:

Use of the term New Testament to describe a collection of first and second-century Christian Greek scriptures can be traced back to Tertullian (in Against Praxeas 15). In Against Marcion, written c. 208 AD, he writes of: the Divine Word, who is doubly edged with the twotestaments of the law and the gospel.



and Paul was referring to the Pentateuch not the whole Jewish Scripture.

I fully agree that the use of the words old and new referred to the covenants. as for books of the bible there are only two and the new was coined by Tertullian.

In actuality God has made 8 Covenanats with people.

Adamic
Edenic
Noahic
Abrahamic
Palestinian
Davidic
Mosaic
New

Right. So we see Scripture itself, with 2 Corinthians 3:14-15 referring to the Pentateuch/Torah which contains six of the seven OT covenants, confirming that the OT covenants are not separate testaments, but are rather clauses of a single testament, the one Old Testament.

And both Scripturally and in jurisprudent law, therefore, the New Testament does not transcend only the Mosaic covenant.

Rather, it transcends the Old Testament and all of its clauses, in their entirety.

 

[nolidad]

Right. So we see Scripture itself, with 2 Corinthians 3:14-15 referring to the Pentateuch/Torah which contains six of the seven OT covenants, confirming that the OT covenants are not separate testaments, but are rather clauses of a single testament, the one Old Testament.

And both Scripturally and in jurisprudent law, therefore, the New Testament does not transcend only the Mosaic covenant.

Rather, it transcends the Old Testament and all of its clauses, in their entirety.

Quoting mans law is irreverent. Verse 15 defines the Old covenant- Moses- that is the law.

The other covenants are not testaments, but divine contracts! Though testament is similar- it is not the same in all cases!

You run around making inferences to deny God is done with Israel as a nation, even though He said He will keep the Abrahamic, Davidic. Palestinian and New covenants.

I wish you cared as much as what God HImself said in Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 31:31
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Jeremiah 31:32
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Jeremiah 31:33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Jeremiah 32:40
And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

The only covenant God made with Israel in the desert is the Mosaic. The other covenants were 430 prior and Paul said the law (the covenant in the desert) cannot disannul them!

cov·e·nant
/ˈkəvənənt/
Learn to pronounce
noun

1. 1.
   an agreement.
   synonyms: contract, compact, treaty, pact, accord, deal, bargain, settlement, concordat, protocol, entente, agreement, arrangement, understanding, pledge, promise, bond, indenture, guarantee, warrant;
   undertaking, commitment

testament
noun
tes·ta·ment | \ ˈte-stə-mənt \
Definition of testament


1a: a tangible proof or tribute
b: an expression of conviction : CREED
2a: an act by which a person determines the disposition of his or her property after death
b: WILL
3acapitalized : either of two main divisions of the Bible
barchaic : a covenant between God and the human race

Covenant:
בְּרִית
Transliteration
bĕriyth
Pronunciation
ber·ēth' בָּרָה (H1262) (in the sense of cutting [like בָּרָא (H1254)])
Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: covenant (264x), league (17x), confederacy (1x), confederate (1x), confederate (with H1167) (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. covenant, alliance, pledge
   
   1. between men
      
      1. treaty, alliance, league (man to man)
         
         
      2. constitution, ordinance (monarch to subjects)
         
         
      3. agreement, pledge (man to man)
         
         
      4. alliance (of friendship)
         
         
      5. alliance (of marriage)
         
   2. between God and man
      
      1. alliance (of friendship)
         
         
      2. covenant (divine ordinance with signs or pledges)
         

 

[keras]

You run around making inferences to deny God is done with Israel as a nation, even though He said He will keep the Abrahamic, Davidic. Palestinian and New covenants.

It is who exactly that 'nation' is today, that is the question.
Is it those mixed race people who call themselves the Jewish State of Israel?

NO. They are who Jesus said would inherit the Kingdom: those who bear the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43 The sons of Abraham by faith and by descent, the Christians from every race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10...THEY will reign on earth.

 

[jgr]

Quoting mans law is irreverent.

It is not irreverent when it affirms Scripture, which it does.

Verse 15 defines the Old covenant- Moses- that is the law.

Verse 15 refers to what Moses authored, which is the Torah/Pentateuch, the first five books of the Old Testament. It is what Paul referred to as the Old Testament. It contains all of the covenant clauses found in the Torah/Pentateuch in Paul's day, including the Mosaic. They are transcended in their entirety by the New Testament, consistent with the definition and operation of a will and testament.

The other covenants are not testaments, but divine contracts!

Which is exactly what I've been saying when the Mosaic covenant is included as one of the covenants.

You run around making inferences to deny God is done with Israel as a nation, even though He said He will keep the Abrahamic, Davidic. Palestinian and New covenants.

He has kept them, fulfilled them, and bequeathed them, fully and completely, in and to His Son. (2 Corinthians 1:20; Hebrews 1:1,2)

The only covenant God made with Israel in the desert is the Mosaic. The other covenants were 430 prior and Paul said the law (the covenant in the desert) cannot disannul them!

He has kept them, fulfilled them, and bequeathed them, fully and completely, in and to His Son. (2 Corinthians 1:20; Hebrews 1:1,2)

 

[jgr]

I wish you cared as much as what God HImself said in Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 31:31
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Jeremiah 31:32
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Jeremiah 31:33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Jeremiah 32:40
And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

The only covenant God made with Israel in the desert is the Mosaic. The other covenants were 430 prior and Paul said the law (the covenant in the desert) cannot disannul them!

Unquestionably, God made a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah.

And He didn't stop there. He made the same new covenant/testament with His Church who, as seen in Hebrews 12:22-24, include ye, i.e. Hebrews, i.e. Israel and Judah.

And as ever, His only covenant conditions were, and are, faith and obedience, alone.

Two chromosomes of spiritual DNA.


2 Corinthians 3
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Hebrews 12
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

 

[nolidad]

Unquestionably, God made a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah.

And He didn't stop there. He made the same new covenant/testament with His Church who, as seen in Hebrews 12:22-24, include ye, i.e. Hebrews, i.e. Israel and Judah.

And as ever, His only covenant conditions were, and are, faith and obedience, alone.

Two chromosomes of spiritual DNA.


2 Corinthians 3
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Hebrews 12
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

this is biblical! The new covenant replaced only the Mosaic covenant! For lifestyle and showing righteousness. remember the old covenant had 608 commands. The niew has over 1,000!

But the Abrahamic, Davidic and Palestinian Covenants are in full effect as both the OT prophets and NT writers have shown!

 

[jgr]

this is biblical! The new covenant replaced only the Mosaic covenant!

Not tenable in either Scripture or law, as explained in previous posts. A new testament does not transcend only part of an old testament. It transcends all of it.

You should also realize that there is no recognized defender of the true faith in eighteen centuries of orthodox true Church doctrine before the 19th century who maintained that the New Testament replaced only the Mosaic covenant.

Those who expounded upon Hebrews 8:8,9 never so much as hinted at only a partial fulfillment.

remember the old covenant had 608 commands. The niew has over 1,000!

The new is encapsulated in John 13:34,35:

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

What are Scripture references for say, 20 of the other 1,000??

But the Abrahamic, Davidic and Palestinian Covenants are in full effect as both the OT prophets and NT writers have shown!

True. They are in full effect now, in and through Christ, and have been since His first coming.

 

[nolidad]

Not tenable in either Scripture or law, as explained in previous posts. A new testament does not transcend only part of an old testament. It transcends all of it.

You should also realize that there is no recognized defender of the true faith in eighteen centuries of orthodox true Church doctrine before the 19th century who maintained that the New Testament replaced only the Mosaic covenant.

Those who expounded upon Hebrews 8:8,9 never so much as hinted at only a partial fulfillment.

You still don't get it! You are so wed to your theory , you reject what teh Bible says!

Jeremiah 31:31
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Jeremiah 31:32
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

The bible declares what covenant was replaced-- The Mosaic. If you can show that the Abrahamic, Davbidic and Palestinian Covenant were made in the desert at the same time, I would agree. B ut you can't so your opinions are irrelavent in light of teh speicifcs of what Covenant the Bible says is being replaced!

You should also realize that there is no recognized defender of the true faith in eighteen centuries of orthodox true Church doctrine before the 19th century who maintained that the New Testament replaced only the Mosaic covenant.

Those who expounded upon Hebrews 8:8,9 never so much as hinted at only a partial fulfillment.

Actually you should say from the fourth through the mid of the 18th century.

The reason is simple Augustine in the 4th century popularized allegorical interpretation with its replacement theology and it became the standard in the roman Church during the dark ages! Once the reformation had taken hold and doctrine began to be studied more and more Isarael once again was shown to still be part of Gods plan as is stated in a normal plain reading of SCripture.

 

[jgr]

You still don't get it! You are so wed to your theory , you reject what teh Bible says!

Jeremiah 31:31
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Jeremiah 31:32
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

The bible declares what covenant was replaced-- The Mosaic. If you can show that the Abrahamic, Davbidic and Palestinian Covenant were made in the desert at the same time, I would agree. B ut you can't so your opinions are irrelavent in light of teh speicifcs of what Covenant the Bible says is being replaced!

2 Corinthians 1
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.

Colossians 3
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.


What part of "all" don't you understand?

Actually you should say from the fourth through the mid of the 18th century.

The reason is simple Augustine in the 4th century popularized allegorical interpretation with its replacement theology and it became the standard in the roman Church during the dark ages! Once the reformation had taken hold and doctrine began to be studied more and more Isarael once again was shown to still be part of Gods plan as is stated in a normal plain reading of SCripture.

You are invited to provide a name and quote from any Reformation, or any other pre-19th-century, defender of the true faith who declared that the New Testament replaced only the Mosaic covenant.

 

[nolidad]

Colossians 3
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.


What part of "all" don't you understand?

I agree 100% with this verse! But this verse hasd nothing to do with the old covenants prior to teh Mosaic Covenant but how one enters the body of Christ!

Hebrews 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.

Well then why don't you believe HIm!

Matt. 24:

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Do you plan to be in Judea seeing as you reject a future for Israel?

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Paul said our body is the temple of God- so are you saying believers are to be demon possessed?

So what about all the prophesies left unfulfilled still and all the promises specifically to Israel; not fulfilled. did God just wipe them out?

If God wiped out eternal promises made to the seed of Abraham Isaac and Jacob- how can we be sure He won't wipe out the promises He made to the church???

 

[jgr]

I agree 100% with this verse! But this verse hasd nothing to do with the old covenants prior to teh Mosaic Covenant but how one enters the body of Christ!



Well then why don't you believe HIm!

Matt. 24:

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Do you plan to be in Judea seeing as you reject a future for Israel?

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Paul said our body is the temple of God- so are you saying believers are to be demon possessed?

So what about all the prophesies left unfulfilled still and all the promises specifically to Israel; not fulfilled. did God just wipe them out?

If God wiped out eternal promises made to the seed of Abraham Isaac and Jacob- how can we be sure He won't wipe out the promises He made to the church???

Our readers now have more than sufficient of the evidence revealed in Scripture, and confirmed in law and history, to recognize the transcendence, eminence, efficacy, and sufficiency of the New Covenant, and of the One who lived, died and arose to be its complete and perfect fulfillment.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[nolidad]

Our readers now have more than sufficient of the evidence revealed in Scripture, and confirmed in law and history, to recognize the transcendence, eminence, efficacy, and sufficiency of the New Covenant, and of the One who lived, died and arose to be its complete and perfect fulfillment.

Thanks for the discussion.

I agree, the New is far better than the Mosaic.

Let us await the Russian Invasion, the signing of the treaty between Israel and the Antichrist, and when Jesus returns Israel restored to her glory for the millenial kngdom.

 

[parousia70]

Let us await the Russian Invasion, the signing of the treaty between Israel and the Antichrist, and when Jesus returns Israel restored to her glory for the millenial kngdom.

I won't hold my breath..

 

[nolidad]

I won't hold my breath..

I won't either. But it will happen just as God told the prophets and had them write it down in his word.

 

[parousia70]

I won't either. But it will happen just as God told the prophets and had them write it down in his word.

God never told the prophets this:

"the Russian Invasion, the signing of the treaty between Israel and the Antichrist"

And you will not find it written down in his word.

Such is PURELY man made tradition.

 

[keras]

God never told the prophets this:

"the Russian Invasion, the signing of the treaty between Israel and the Antichrist"

And you will not find it written down in his word.

Such is PURELY man made tradition.

The 'Russian invasion': Ezekiel 38:1-6....all people from the far reaches of the North.

The signing of a peace treaty; Daniel 9:27 and Isaiah 28:14-15

These things are in His Word. You Parousia; are a wolf among the flock, Acts of the Apostles 20:29

 

[jgr]

The 'Russian invasion': Ezekiel 38:1-6....all from the far reaches of the North.

The signing of a peace treaty; Daniel 9:27 and Isaiah 28:14-15

These things are in His Word. You Parousia; are a wolf among the flock, Acts of the Apostles 20:29

The words "Russian, invasion, peace, treaty" appear nowhere in the cited Scriptures. These things are in your word, alone.

I thought you believed Scripture literally. Wolves and flock were and are literal realities. How dare you allegorize them?