Did the Early Church Fathers teach "Calvinism?"

[ICONO'CLAST]

So reading on wikipedia about Augustine and getting to 11minutes into the video fills me with horror. It's beginning to sound like there isn't a Church which actually follows the Bible. I've not wasted my time much by researching theologians yet. I read a book written by Piper explaining Calvinism and that was enough to see it's unbiblical.

Given that all the Churches I know of are rooted one way or another on Augustine (it says Calvin and Luther drew heavily on him) how does one find a Church that isn't?

perhaps you could share your ideas on what is unbiblical about the apostolic teaching?

 

[crossnote]

Of course it was the Holy Spirit. God's word is Spirit.

Ok, but I was sure you said Paul.

 

[crossnote]

because of everything God has revealed about Himself. His character and attributes. Because of who He is, it is impossible for Him to be arbitrary or without a reason in anything. Otherwise He wouldn't be God.

I liked your first explanation the best..."We don't KNOW His reason,", the rest is just finite human reasoning groping for answers.

 

[Sam91]

perhaps you could share your ideas on what is unbiblical about the apostolic teaching?

The fact that it deludes people into thinking they are saved when Jesus says 'If you love me you will obey me'. Many a person thinks they are right with God but the fruit of the Spirit working is not evident in their lives (or posts).

It saddens me. Such hardness of hearts. Also, there are people who seem sweet and gentle but are very concerned with the ways of this world. I can't say I have it right either but what I do know is man's doctrine doesn't save. Christ saves, Calvinism doesn't.

There are too many passages calling for perseverance and to be careful not to lose one's way to ignore.

However, I do not want to get into fruitless quibbling over man's doctrine. I wouldn't want to take someone's eyes off God and turn them pridefully to their own arguments. It is divisive and sinful once one understands the futility of it. It doesn't bring Glory to Him, who was and is and is to come. I err enough than to do it willfully. God bless you brother, this is my last post to you in this thread.

Proverbs 3:5-6

PS, I do not know much about Augustine other than the era he was from. When I started researching the early church years ago I was deeply touched by Proverbs 3:5-6. I spent a year learning that, my anchor is Christ, the Bible and what I learn through the Spirit while reading, praying, obeying and trusting. I am not sure what was even in the video that I watched. I've since forgotten.

I found that I was reading the early church letters, history for knowledge sake rather than to seek God. It was a distraction indeed.

 

[reformed05]

I liked your first explanation the best..."We don't KNOW His reason,", the rest is just finite human reasoning groping for answers.

Guess I misunderstood What you were asking. Thought it was a different question.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

The fact that it deludes people into thinking they are saved when Jesus says 'If you love me you will obey me'. Many a person thinks they are right with God but the fruit of the Spirit working is not evident in their lives (or posts).

It saddens me. Such hardness of hearts. Also, there are people who seem sweet and gentle but are very concerned with the ways of this world. I can't say I have it right either but what I do know is man's doctrine doesn't save. Christ saves, Calvinism doesn't.

There are too many passages calling for perseverance and to be careful not to lose one's way to ignore.

However, I do not want to get into fruitless quibbling over man's doctrine. I wouldn't want to take someone's eyes off God and turn them pridefully to their own arguments. It is divisive and sinful once one understands the futility of it. It doesn't bring Glory to Him, who was and is and is to come. I err enough than to do it willfully. God bless you brother, this is my last post to you in this thread.

Proverbs 3:5-6

PS, I do not know much about Augustine other than the era he was from. When I started researching the early church years ago I was deeply touched by Proverbs 3:5-6. I spent a year learning that, my anchor is Christ, the Bible and what I learn through the Spirit while reading, praying, obeying and trusting. I am not sure what was even in the video that I watched. I've since forgotten.

I found that I was reading the early church letters, history for knowledge sake rather than to seek God. It was a distraction indeed.

I am not sure how you blame the teaching for the things you describe.
I am pretty confident Calvinists believe prov 3:5 also.
What makes you call the teaching man's doctrine?

 

[fhansen]

Dr. Ken Wilson reveals how Augustine's doctrine of "election" is the true source of what has come to be known as "Calvinism".

Augustine was attempting to explain how infants could become the "elect" through water baptism.
Since the child had not come to faith, it must be based on the will of another.
It must be determined by God, instead of the infant.

.

The church has historically taught that faith is required for any sacrament, but especially the "sacrament of faith" as its sometimes called: baptism. And so, since there's a corporate element to salvation with others participating in each others coming to know God, or even directly (Acts 16:31), it's believed that the faith of the family and community stand in for the infant at baptism, with the person's own faith increasingly required to fulfill those baptismal vows as they age. Anyway I think using infant baptism as a means to prove election is pretty lame.