Did St. Paul commit herecy?

[JCrawf]

Jesus said: "And call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father—the one in heaven." (Matt. 23:9)

However, St Paul said:


"For this reason it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants, not only to the adherents of the law but also to those who share the faith of Abraham (for he is the father of all of us, as it is written, "I have made you the father of many nations")—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist." (Romans 4:16-17)


So, according to the Apostle Paul, Abraham is father and made father of many nations. What happened to Jesus' direct command: call no one your father on earth??
What is going on here? Why is Paul preaching what is so apparently herecy? And can you imagine, he also brings up some obscure scripture from the Old Testament? What a Judaising blasphemer!



Paul also said:


"For though you might have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers. Indeed, in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel." (I Cor. 4:15)

Excuse me? St. Paul becomes our father?? But he doesn't stop there in his herecy:


"I appeal to you, then, be imitators of me." (v. 16)

We are to imitate St. Paul?? Does this mean, because mimicing means we are to be taught, and thusly instructed by Paul that St Paul is also preaching against Jesus' direct command here:

"Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Messiah."


Is Paul considering himself the Messiah? Does this mean he is preaching another Gospel, especially against that of fundamentalists who literally believe that Jesus tells us not to call anyone father, nor instructor? Is St. Paul in error and thusly a cultish heretic?


*This is a parody and not authors' real opinions.

 

[ThankyouJesus]

Jesus said: "And call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father—the one in heaven." (Matt. 23:9)

However, St Paul said:


"For this reason it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants, not only to the adherents of the law but also to those who share the faith of Abraham (for he is the father of all of us, as it is written, "I have made you the father of many nations")—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist." (Romans 4:16-17)

QUOTE]

I will do further study and get back on this tomorrow ~ it has something to do with the Jewish promise God gave to Abraham ~ I know in Rev ~ Jesus separates us Jews & Gentiles ~ he says to Jews who are real Jews ~ to Gentiles he says something else ~ so there is a line drawn between both Jews and Gentiles ~

Good Thread ~ reps for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JCrawf]

I will do further study and get back on this tomorrow ~ it has something to do with the Jewish promise God gave to Abraham

You are right. It does have to do with the covenant made with Abraham.

I know in Rev ~ Jesus separates us Jews & Gentiles ~ he says to Jews who are real Jews ~ to Gentiles he says something else ~ so there is a line drawn between both Jews and Gentiles ~

Not too familiar with that part. Can you reference it?

Good Thread ~ reps for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks. Although it is somewhat of a parody (taken from what I remember of quite a few spooky anti-Catholic sites I used to go to), it does pose some serious questions regarding the polemic made by the other people's rhetoric in concerns to the "call no man father" passage.

Also, I might look up an article I once read about how Protestants even here in the United States at one time called their ministers father. It's rather interesting.

Pax Tecum,

John

 

[NPH]

Is Paul considering himself the Messiah? Does this mean he is preaching another Gospel, especially against that of fundamentalists who literally believe that Jesus tells us not to call anyone father, nor instructor? Is St. Paul in error and thusly a cultish heretic?.

Well, when I was a Baptist at camp we sang a song that went "Father Abraham, had many sons. Many sons had Father Abraham. And I am one of them .... etc". And I always called the man who contributed his genetic material to my birth "Father". And then St. Paul is telling us that he also was a "Father".

Phew, guess I better stop calling Priests by the term "Father". Cause that's just bad, unless i'm talking about Abraham, or my biological genetic material contributer, or St. Paul etc ...


BTW, ThankyouJesus. Not sure if you see it on your screen but your signature takes up an entire page and has nothing on it You might want to check and see if you accidentally put a lot of empty space in it.

 

[ThankyouJesus]

Well, when I was a Baptist at camp we sang a song that went "Father Abraham, had many sons. Many sons had Father Abraham. And I am one of them .... etc". And I always called the man who contributed his genetic material to my birth "Father". And then St. Paul is telling us that he also was a "Father".

Phew, guess I better stop calling Priests by the term "Father". Cause that's just bad, unless i'm talking about Abraham, or my biological genetic material contributer, or St. Paul etc ...


BTW, ThankyouJesus. Not sure if you see it on your screen but your signature takes up an entire page and has nothing on it You might want to check and see if you accidentally put a lot of empty space in it.

thanks VNVN ~ i will go check ~ geee another 50 blessings I would rather give it to someone LOL

 

[ThankyouJesus]

no I could not see it on my screen ~ thanks ~ fixed it ~

 

[NPH]

thanks VNVN ~ i will go check ~ geee another 50 blessings I would rather give it to someone LOL

Ah, much better! And I feel somewhat guilty for being the one to mention it and cost you those blessings so I'm off to the bank to replace them for you

It really was driving me batty though scrolling a whole page through every post of yours tonight lol.

 

[ThankyouJesus]

lol ~ scrolling ~ no thanks ~ i would rather do another 50 ~ I actually think I made so many mistakes making it used about 500 LOL ~ never again

 

[NPH]

lol ~ scrolling ~ no thanks ~ i would rather do another 50 ~ I actually think I made so many mistakes making it used about 500 LOL ~ never again

Well, it's a really wonderful signature and well worth the effort!

 

[PassthePeace1]

Well, when I was a Baptist at camp we sang a song that went "Father Abraham, had many sons. Many sons had Father Abraham. And I am one of them .... etc". And I always called the man who contributed his genetic material to my birth "Father". And then St. Paul is telling us that he also was a "Father".

Phew, guess I better stop calling Priests by the term "Father". Cause that's just bad, unless i'm talking about Abraham, or my biological genetic material contributer, or St. Paul etc ...


BTW, ThankyouJesus. Not sure if you see it on your screen but your signature takes up an entire page and has nothing on it You might want to check and see if you accidentally put a lot of empty space in it.

Hey, I was raised baptist too and I remember singing that song also...lol...who would have thought that all those years in VBS...I was being lead down the road to heresy..

Btw, ThankyouJesus...are you sick, I noticed your mood icon is on unwell..I'll say a prayer for you....hope you get well soon...Peace be with you...Pam

 

[ThankyouJesus]

Thanks PTP got a flu shot and got really sick from it ~ first time this ever happened ~

my luck

 

[Archangel]

Jesus said: "And call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father—the one in heaven." (Matt. 23:9)

However, St Paul said:


"For this reason it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants, not only to the adherents of the law but also to those who share the faith of Abraham (for he is the father of all of us, as it is written, "I have made you the father of many nations")—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist." (Romans 4:16-17)


So, according to the Apostle Paul, Abraham is father and made father of many nations. What happened to Jesus' direct command: call no one your father on earth??
What is going on here? Why is Paul preaching what is so apparently herecy? And can you imagine, he also brings up some obscure scripture from the Old Testament? What a Judaising blasphemer!



Paul also said:


"For though you might have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers. Indeed, in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel." (I Cor. 4:15)

Excuse me? St. Paul becomes our father?? But he doesn't stop there in his herecy:


"I appeal to you, then, be imitators of me." (v. 16)

We are to imitate St. Paul?? Does this mean, because mimicing means we are to be taught, and thusly instructed by Paul that St Paul is also preaching against Jesus' direct command here:

"Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Messiah."


Is Paul considering himself the Messiah? Does this mean he is preaching another Gospel, especially against that of fundamentalists who literally believe that Jesus tells us not to call anyone father, nor instructor? Is St. Paul in error and thusly a cultish heretic?


*This is a parody and not authors' real opinions.

lol what a stupid argument...im glad it isnt ur opinion the person who wrote that needs a slap round the head for ignorance and being an idiot

 

[ThankyouJesus]

lol what a stupid argument...im glad it isnt ur opinion the person who wrote that needs a slap round the head for ignorance and being an idiot

why call names? why be this way to a person who has a really good question?

please be nice ~ thanks

 

[Lee Fey]

Alright, as funny as everyone finds this, it can bring up some serious issues for someone just looking for reasons not to turn towards Christ. Is anyone up for trying to work with this, or should I just try it myself?

 

[NPH]

Alright, as funny as everyone finds this, it can bring up some serious issues for someone just looking for reasons not to turn towards Christ. Is anyone up for trying to work with this, or should I just try it myself?

Knock yourself out, I'm off for a bit of sleep

 

[lionroar0]

This deserves a bump

Peace

 

[Dream]

And what about what Jesus said:

Mat 10:35 For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Mat 15:4 Honour thy father and mother: And: He that shall curse father or mother, let him die the death.

Luk 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son and the son against his father: the mother against the daughter and the daughter against her mother: the mother-in-law against the daughter-in-law and the daughter-in-law law against her mother-in-law.

Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother and wife and children and brethren and sisters, yea and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple

Joh 4:12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank thereof, himself and his children and his cattle?

And throughout the Gospel:

Mar 1:20 And forthwith he called them. And leaving their father Zebedee in the ship with his hired men, they followed him.

Mar 5:40 They started making fun of him, so he put them all out, took the child's father and mother and his three disciples, and went into the room where the child was lying.

Mar 9:21 And he asked his father: How long time is it since this hath happened unto him? But he sad: From his infancy.

Mar 9:24 And immediately the father of the boy crying out, with tears said: I do believe, Lord. Help my unbelief.

Mar 11:10 Blessed be the kingdom of our father David that cometh: Hosanna in the highest.

Mar 15:21 And they forced one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and of Rufus, to take up his cross.

Luk 1:59 And it came to pass that on the eighth day they came to circumcise the child: and they called him by his father's name Zachary.

Luk 1:62 And they made signs to his father, how he would have him called.

Luk 1:73 The oath, which he swore to Abraham our father, that he would grant to us.

Luk 8:50 And Jesus hearing this word, answered the father of the maid: Fear not. Believe only: and she shall be safe.

Even the angel Gabriel:

Luk 1:32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father: and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever.


All of these holy people commiting such terrible sins. For shame.

 

[StevenL]

There's a great difference between using self-exalting titles....like "Father Smith" ( Jesus' subject in Matthew 23 ) and being a "father" by reason of relationship, physical or spiritual. It's really very simple.

 

[joyfulthanks]

...

 

[JCrawf]

Well, when I was a Baptist at camp we sang a song that went "Father Abraham, had many sons. Many sons had Father Abraham. And I am one of them .... etc". And I always called the man who contributed his genetic material to my birth "Father". And then St. Paul is telling us that he also was a "Father".

I think what you speak here shows that even most Protestants do not prescribe to this literal interpretation that Jesus commanded no one but God to be called father. Being a former Protestant myself, I can say with some experience that a good portion of Protestants can figure out when even our Lord Christ Jesus is using hyperbole.

Phew, guess I better stop calling Priests by the term "Father". Cause that's just bad, unless i'm talking about Abraham, or my biological genetic material contributer, or St. Paul etc ...

Well, if we are to take the verse literally, only God the Father, and Him alone can be called father. So, the greater issue to be brough up in regards to the parody deals with the issue of what is to be taken literal in the Bible, as well, as how we should approach the Scripture in regrds to what is not to be taken so literally. If the Bible had Noah saying it was raining cats and dogs, would we believe that Noah truly meant that cats and dogs were falling out of the sky, or would there be a better way to interpret something of that nature, such as Noah meaning that it was raining really hard?

Pax Tecum,

John