Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

SBC · Oct 19, 2017

EnergonWaffles said:
Yes, I did. It was fear of what others thought of me that kept me from following God for a long time.

“The fear of man lays a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is safe” (Proverbs 29:25)

Jesus tells us we are not to fear men. “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matthew 10:28)

Well friend - when I was naturally born, I was born IN SIN.
I did not believe in God, love God, trust God, know God.
I have not heard His Word, believe His Word, or Trust His Word.
I do not recall speaking against Him. But then I didn't speak for Him either.
I did nothing to glorify His name.
I learned as a small child, the name of Jesus.
Mom said to love Him, so I did.
Mom said don't steal, don't lie, don't cheat.
So I didn't.
We were dirt poor, but, Mom said we were rich in Jesus.
So, when I saw others well off with "things", I asked them why they were not rich in Jesus.
The truth revealed. Some said they were, some said they didn't believe in Jesus.
I trusted my Mom, and as I was older and could read, she showed me in Scripture, what she has taught me.
When I submitted my LIFE to the Lord, it was in FULL trust, He would KEEP me in faithfulness to Him only.
When I repented; I repented for not believing, not loving, not trusting, not knowing, Him, His Word, not glorifying His name, and corrupting the life in my body and soul that He had given to me.

THAT, MY SIN of standing against God, is what He forgave me for. And why He forgave me is BECAUSE I believe and submitted my life to Him, His care, His keeping, His power. And nothing whatsoever can undo, His forgiveness, cleansing my body, sanctifying my body, crucifying my body, His restoring my soul, His quickening my spirit and His Spirit dwelling within me.

And nothing whatsoever can ever again cause me to stand against God, or sin. He has freed me from sin. He dwells within me, and He does not dwell in sin.

The piddly things you mention, between men, are not sin against God.
They are trespasses of men against men, and resolved between me.
Men do not forgive sin. Only God forgives sin.

God Bless,
SBC

1stcenturylady · Oct 19, 2017

JacksBratt said:
Please see post # 101 on page six.

Have you never had to ask for forgiveness, since you were saved? I mean from anyone or Christ. If you have, then, you have sinned.

Do you think that you lose your salvation if you sin? Do you think that being saved and having the Holy Spirit in your heart makes you unable to sin?

We sin..... period. Christians and non Christians... all humans sin.

We Christians are under no condemnation due to our salvation. This is NOT a license to sin but our salvation is for all our sins.

Yes, I ask for forgiveness from Christ all the time, for my sins. It is not due to my fear of losing my salvation. It is due to my separation from fellowship with God and my shame that I have done it.

I also give and ask for forgiveness from other people in my life.. because I wrong them from time to time.

You diminish the power of the blood of Christ if you think that it cannot save me from all my sins.

I have eternal life and it started the moment I asked Christ to forgive my sins and gave my life to Him..... It doesn't mean that I am unable to sin....

If what you are saying is true... I don't know one person who is saved...not one.

Jack, I know there is the belief that the blood of Jesus cleanses us from our willful past, present and future sins. Is that what you and Tobeloved believe? I think the difference in what we believe, is the word all our sins. Do you and Tobeloved believed that includes the willful sins you haven't committed yet, but will? Where is the evidence you even are a Christian, if you keep committing willful sins? Now, if you mean present and future unintentional sins, that are NOT willfully committed, then we are on the same page and I accept that as truth. Some believe all sins are willful, and that is NOT true. That belief perverts present and future sins as being cleansed.

The evidence is the power of the Holy Spirit in you to be dead to sin, to NOT be in the flesh, but in the Spirit. It is then that any unintentional sins that are not willfully committed are automatically cleansed, not just covered up. It is the willfulness of the heart that God sees and judges.

So are we on the same page, or not? I can show scripture that it is our PAST sins that are cleansed (and not just covered up). Can those who believe PRESENT AND FUTURE WILLFUL sins are covered show scripture?

1stcenturylady · Oct 19, 2017

ToBeLoved said:
We are dead to sin in that sin can no longer separate us from God because of the justification of Christ. Dead to the consequences of sin, separation from God.

Not that we do not sin.

Christ's blood is our justification.

Hi girlfriend,

I guess we read Romans 6 entirely differently. Paul even gives warnings in that same chapter that the wages of sin is death, which IS the consequence of continuing to sin once we are dead to sin.

I would bet that if you looked at your life, you would find that you don't desire to sin, and if you do, it wasn't planned. And that you could have easily stopped yourself before you did, due to the power of the Holy Spirit. Is that true, or not?

ToBeLoved · Oct 19, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Hi girlfriend,

I guess we read Romans 6 entirely differently. Paul even gives warnings in that same chapter that the wages of sin is death, which IS the consequence of continuing to sin once we are dead to sin.

I would bet that if you looked at your life, you would find that you don't desire to sin, and if you do, it wasn't planned. And that you could have easily stopped yourself before you did, due to the power of the Holy Spirit. Is that true, or not?

Then why aren’t non Christians dead?

I’ll answer, because it’s spiritual death not physical death. Spiritual death is separation from God, but Christians have Christ’s justification so they have God Himself, the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Jesus Himself said He is the bread of life. How do you explain that then?

Don’t always think physical.

shaheem white · Oct 19, 2017

JIMINZ said:
.
Hi Shaheem

I wholeheartedly agree 100% with what you have said.

Two questions.

1) What have you been set free from?
2) How are you Free Indeed?

.
I need some clarification.

You are now modifying your previous statements from above, how can you be all of those things you said you were, and now declare, a Converted man can Sin.

I believe you are referring to this verse.
1Jn. 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

You continue on in modifying your statements with this verse.
1Jn. 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Both of these statements of John are true, and your solution to this dichotomy is, to reconcile them in the one belief, a Converted man can still Sin, do you have a Scripture verse which attests to that belief, which shows such Reconciliation, of these two verses?

1) What does it actually mean, to be Converted?
2) Converted from what, - - - into what?

God Bless

smh, let me give you scripture! we all can agree that peter was converted, right? let me show you were he sinned..

Galatians 2:11,12
When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group... Peter or Cephas after converted still sinned because he knew what He was doing was wrong yet he did it anyway.. so You can be converted and sin. was he a sinner "absolutely not" but he did fall short and have to be corrected by paul... Pls read your bible saint

1stcenturylady · Oct 19, 2017

ToBeLoved said:
Then why aren’t non Christians dead?

I’ll answer, because it’s spiritual death not physical death. Spiritual death is separation from God, but Christians have Christ’s justification so they have God Himself, the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Jesus Himself said He is the bread of life. How do you explain that then?

Don’t always think physical.

Non Christians are already dead spiritually. And they will be in the second death. The wages of sin is spiritual death, even if you once became spiritually alive. It is called returning to your own vomit.

PeaceJoyLove · Oct 19, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Are we to think of ourselves as sinners or not...?

If we are to not think of ourselves as sinners, how does that work? When all of us do sin...?

My assumption for people who think that we should not think ourselves sinners, when we do sin, must be that somehow the sin is not charged against us or held to our account, or that our sin is not longer sin somehow any longer, when we do commit a sin...?

God Bless!

It is not a "thinking" it is a KNOWING...

We cannot become clean by our own reasoning/thought. Reasoning with God..."though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

It is a process taking place within to opening our (spiritually speaking) eyes to 'see' (a revealing) things that are not heard by the hearing of the ear...a coming to KNOW just as we have always been known.
Paul spoke from his life experience...a Saul, then Paul from where he was perceiving from within the process taking place within.

JIMINZ · Oct 19, 2017

shaheem white said:
smh, let me give you scripture! we all can agree that peter was converted, right? let me show you were he sinned..

Galatians 2:11,12
When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group... Peter or Cephas after converted still sinned because he knew what He was doing was wrong yet he did it anyway.. so You can be converted and sin. was he a sinner "absolutely not" but he did fall short and have to be corrected by paul... Pls read your bible saint

.
What Peter did, is not an answer to any of the questions I asked.

You answer, by defending your Theological, or Doctrinal position, when all I am attempting to do is gain some insight, understanding, knowledge on what it is you do believe.

If you are unwilling, unable to answer simple questions just let me know.

Ken Rank · Oct 19, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Yes, I agree, and in other posts have explained what kind of sins a true Christian does not commit. They are willful sins. If you read Numbers 15, starting at verse 22, you see there was a sacrifice for unintentional sins, but the presumptuous willful sin, there was no sacrifice for. They stoned him. A Christian does not commit willful sins. If they do, they must repent in order to be cleansed of that type of sin. Turn away from it, and turn toward God who will give them the strength to not commit that sin again. If someone continued in willful sins, I would question whether they even had the Holy Spirit. They may just be a Christian in name only, but do not have the power that makes all the difference in their salvation. Because anyone in the flesh cannot please God, but a Christian is not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed, he has the Spirit of Christ in them. And the word says, without the Spirit they do not belong to Christ.

Paul isn't saying he is willfully sinning, that is rebellion anyway. So when he says concerning sinners, "I am chief," he is not talking about rebellion so it is proper to say, "I am a sinner." You said we can't say that, the text doesn't support you (respectfully).

Rescued One · Oct 20, 2017

I just want to know how many perfect sinless people have been in my school, my church, my home, my town.

I'm not talking about our imputed righteousness. Who here deserves his blessings?

shaheem white · Oct 20, 2017

JIMINZ said:
.
What Peter did, is not an answer to any of the questions I asked.

You answer, by defending your Theological, or Doctrinal position, when all I am attempting to do is gain some insight, understanding, knowledge on what it is you do believe.

If you are unwilling, unable to answer simple questions just let me know.

For one I am a Child of Love and as I always say I don't respond well to Evil, hatred and disrespect. You are coming off very rude and I'm just being honest. So you be Blessed, I will not be having anymore conversation with you.. God Bless you and I love you...

1stcenturylady · Oct 20, 2017

Ken Rank said:
Paul isn't saying he is willfully sinning, that is rebellion anyway. So when he says concerning sinners, "I am chief," he is not talking about rebellion so it is proper to say, "I am a sinner." You said we can't say that, the text doesn't support you (respectfully).

I have never thought Paul was speaking that he presently sinned more than anyone else, meaning "chief." He would literally be admitting he wasn't even a Christian. He would have no right to write any epistle on the Christian walk. Besides, he would be contradicting what he has said regarding sin.

Oldmantook · Oct 20, 2017

SBC said:
No problem. If you want to teach the Spirit of God dwells within you, while you continue to commit sin.

No explanation can resolve how God dwells in your sin.

God Bless,
SBC

Those that teach heresy, I don't heed any advice.

JIMINZ · Oct 20, 2017

shaheem white said:
For one I am a Child of Love and as I always say I don't respond well to Evil, hatred and disrespect. You are coming off very rude and I'm just being honest. So you be Blessed, I will not be having anymore conversation with you.. God Bless you and I love you...

.
All I did was ask some questions, you completely ignored my first post, and to my second post you gave me some verse which didn't answer any of the questions I asked, and now your offended by my third post.

You be Blessed too.

ViaCrucis · Oct 20, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Did Paul consider himself a "sinner"?, How many of which disciples/apostles think of themselves as sinners...? Are we supposed to think of ourselves or consider ourselves as sinners...? Even after we say we are saved...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

St. Paul thought of himself as the chief of sinners.

-CryptoLutheran

SBC · Oct 20, 2017

Oldmantook said:
Those that teach heresy, I don't heed any advice.

Trust God.

God Bless,
SBC

JacksBratt · Oct 20, 2017

frettr00 said:
I have in fact commited mortal sins while being a Christian. I don't anymore and hope I never will again, but it does happen.

What is a mortal sin and who determines which sins are mortal? What different measures are you supposed to take if you commit a mortal sin?

JacksBratt · Oct 20, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Jack, I know there is the belief that the blood of Jesus cleanses us from our willful past, present and future sins. Is that what you and Tobeloved believe? I think the difference in what we believe, is the word all our sins. Do you and Tobeloved believed that includes the willful sins you haven't committed yet, but will? Where is the evidence you even are a Christian, if you keep committing willful sins? Now, if you mean present and future unintentional sins, that are NOT willfully committed, then we are on the same page and I accept that as truth. Some believe all sins are willful, and that is NOT true. That belief perverts present and future sins as being cleansed.

The evidence is the power of the Holy Spirit in you to be dead to sin, to NOT be in the flesh, but in the Spirit. It is then that any unintentional sins that are not willfully committed are automatically cleansed, not just covered up. It is the willfulness of the heart that God sees and judges.

So are we on the same page, or not? I can show scripture that it is our PAST sins that are cleansed (and not just covered up). Can those who believe PRESENT AND FUTURE WILLFUL sins are covered show scripture?

One verse that explains it, I think:
Romans 8:1King James Version (KJV)

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
There is no Condemnation for Saved believers who live with an attitude of a Christ likeness.

If we slip up, which we do, we are still saved. Even if I was to make a bad choice and sin, knowingly, I am still covered by the blood.

Yes, all my sins past and present are covered by the blood of Christ. I am free from the bondage of sin in a way that I live my life determined to be "good" but knowing that if I slip up, I am still a child of God and sin and death are no longer binding me.

Archivist · Oct 20, 2017

JacksBratt said:
One verse that explains it, I think:
Romans 8:1King James Version (KJV)

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
There is no Condemnation for Saved believers who live with an attitude of a Christ likeness.

If we slip up, which we do, we are still saved. Even if I was to make a bad choice and sin, knowingly, I am still covered by the blood.

Yes, all my sins past and present are covered by the blood of Christ. I am free from the bondage of sin in a way that I live my life determined to be "good" but knowing that if I slip up, I am still a child of God and sin and death are no longer binding me.

What you have said is absolutely correct. As Christians we are forgiven, but we still sin.

Some on this thread have said that still sin but as Christians they are no longer sinners. That is wrong. If you sin--and we all sin--then you are a sinner. Forgiven, yes, but a sinner nonetheless.

ToBeLoved · Oct 20, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Non Christians are already dead spiritually. And they will be in the second death. The wages of sin is spiritual death, even if you once became spiritually alive. It is called returning to your own vomit.

My questioning was why you said that our justification in Christ does not cover ALL sins.

You said it does not I believe, so if the price is spiritual death then in your theory Christ would cut us loose each time we sin. Because the price of sin is spiritual death.

So how do you figure that we always have the Holy Spirit if Christ doesn’t constantly and always justify us from the beginning

Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

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