Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

GenemZ · Nov 9, 2017

Enuf already!

" stay alert to the “sin which so easily entangles us” (Hebrews 12:1, NASB

Let the dull ones continue to incubate inside the shell they hide themselves in.

As for the rest of us.. Let us keep growing in Christ!

SBC · Nov 10, 2017

ToBeLoved said:
Is t there a difference between cannot sin and being cleansed froM sin through forgiveness?

They sound like two different things to me

Sure -
Forgiveness - is WHAT.
Through -Forgiveness - is notifying you of Things that happen WHEN you are Forgiven.
Through - Christ (Lord Jesus) - by WHO
Through -Truth - (Jesus) - by WHO
Through - Jesus' BODY - by the WHAT (His blood)

IF you;
1 John 1
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1) your body becomes WASHED, which IS the CLEANSING, by Jesus' BLOOD.
2) your body becomes SANCTIFIED, which IS HOLY.
3) your body becomes JUSTIFIED, which IS ACCOUNTED to be REDEEMED.

4) your sins become COVERED, which IS unseen, remembered no more.

5) your unrighteousness becomes FORGIVEN BY His Mercy.
6) your body becomes DEAD, crucified with Christ the Lord Jesus' Body.
7) your body becomes DEAD, from SIN, freed from SIN, BY Gods POWER.
8) you BECOME ALIVE, THROUGH Christ.

Rom 6
[7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Rom 6
[2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom 6
[11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 17
[19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Acts 26
[18] To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

1 Cor 1
[2] Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Heb 10
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Jude 1
[1] Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
[2] Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

Acts 11
[9] But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Rev 1
[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

1 Cor 6
[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Rom 4
[7] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Heb 8
[12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

IF you;

1 John 1
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

THEN you;

Acts 11
[16] Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

IF you;

1 Peter 1
[23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

THEN His Seed;

[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

BECAUSE His Seed;

[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Then you; (whosoever)

[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Because you; (whosoever)

[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Teaching a man forgiven of his sins, and having received the Holy Spirit, and having become born of the SEED of God, and having the Seed of God within him, having the Holy Spirit within him, and having the Truth of God within him;

"IS A man WHO CONTINUES TO SIN AGAINST GOD"

IS TEACHING - God is a God WHO STANDS AGAINST HIMSELF WITHIN THE MAN,
IS TEACHING - God IS WITHIN a man, but WITHOUT POWER, to KEEP THE MAN FROM SIN!

Gods POWER IS His SPIRIT - Who IS Christ.

1 Cor 1
[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Really?
God's POWER WITHIN MAN, is not enough? to KEEP THE MAN FREED FROM SIN?

OF COURSE GOD'S POWER IS enough!

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

God Bless,
SBC

JLB777 · Nov 20, 2017

SBC said:
IF is the KEY WORD. (we are ALL born sin, sinful , we, us, them, people, humans).....

SO? DID YOU, accomplish the IF? DID YOU, confess your SINS?

Yes, I confess my sin, if I commit a sin.

SBC said:
AND? Was God Faithful and FORGIVE your SINS?
AND? Was God Faithful and CLEANSE YOU from ALL UNRIGHTEOUS?
AND?

Yes

SBC said:
Actually Scripture says, a man born of God can not sin. And I agree with the Word of God.

The scriptures as a whole from the New Testament do not imply that a born again person "can not" sin.

We know for a fact that there are many places that Paul exhorts the Churches to turn away from sin, by the grace and power of the Spirit within us, so that we walk according to the Spirit rather than according to the sinful desires within our flesh.

What you are attempting to do, is take one word from one verse, and try to build a doctrine around that one word.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9 KJV

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 1 John 3:9 NKJV

The idea of the new testament is that we grow up and mature, through the work of transformation and learn to walk according to the life of the Spirit within us, so that we learn to guard ourselves against sin, that we may learn to walk in the light as He is in the light.

The phrase John uses is "keep ourself"

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18

Learning to "keep ourself" is part of the process of transformation and is learned by becoming a disciple and following the example of those who have "been there" and "done that", and are living fruitful lives unto the Lord.

The idea that it is somehow "impossible" for a born again Christian to sin is not a biblical concept.

We are to come to the place where we do not practice sin, or commit sin, but rather we practice righteousness, as a continual lifestyle.

Here is 1 John 3:9 with the context -

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:4-10

Here are the two key opposing concepts that John is getting at.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

Are you practicing righteousness, or are you practicing sin?

JLB

SBC · Nov 20, 2017

JLB777 said:
Yes, I confess my sin, if I commit a sin.

The scriptures as a whole from the New Testament do not imply that a born again person "can not" sin.

We know for a fact that there are many places that Paul exhorts the Churches to turn away from sin, by the grace and power of the Spirit within us, so that we walk according to the Spirit rather than according to the sinful desires within our flesh.

What you are attempting to do, is take one word from one verse, and try to build a doctrine around that one word.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9 KJV

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 1 John 3:9 NKJV

The idea of the new testament is that we grow up and mature, through the work of transformation and learn to walk according to the life of the Spirit within us, so that we learn to guard ourselves against sin, that we may learn to walk in the light as He is in the light.

The phrase John uses is "keep ourself"

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18

Learning to "keep ourself" is part of the process of transformation and is learned by becoming a disciple and following the example of those who have "been there" and "done that", and are living fruitful lives unto the Lord.

The idea that it is somehow "impossible" for a born again Christian to sin is not a biblical concept.

We are to come to the place where we do not practice sin, or commit sin, but rather we practice righteousness, as a continual lifestyle.

Here is 1 John 3:9 with the context -

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:4-10

Here are the two key opposing concepts that John is getting at.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

Are you practicing righteousness, or are you practicing sin?
JLB

You are espousing being freed from sin, as a choice to practice or not what you have been freed from.

If you are in prison, then freed from prison, do you thereafter practice being a prisoner by occasionally returning to prison?

Your testimony is mixing what is carnal and what is spiritual.

Your flesh is carnal. It was born in sin, has committed sin, was forgiven it's sin and spiritually became dead.

Your flesh remains ALIVE. It has not physically changed. Your blood (life) flows, you eat, you sleep, you think with your mind and make logical conclusions. However that LIFE, (even while alive in it's blood), is FORGIVEN ALL of it's sins, AGAINST GOD.
Never again can your body of flesh, NOT BELIEVE IN GOD, or STAND AGAINST GOD.
God has already made YOU WHOLE, body, soul, spirit.
God has already given YOU the FULL-ness of FAITH, to be faithFULL to Him only.

Yet you speak of SIN, continuing to COMMIT SIN, and then ASKING GOD, to forgive you, AS IF, His forgiveness FAILED.

You didn't learn - SIN is against GOD.
Only God forgives SIN.

Men called EVERYTHING a SIN; violations of the 600+ Mosaic laws were called SIN.
Brother against brother was called a SIN. Men saying they forgave one another of SIN.

You didn't learn - what was revealed. ONLY God forgives SIN.
Men trespass one against the other. Men forgive men of trespasses. ONLY GOD forgives SIN.

A man FREED from SIN, is a man "GOD" (not other men), has forgiven for NOT BELIEVING IN HIM.

You have NO consequence for not believing in MEN.
Men DO have a consequence for NOT believing in God.
Men WHO DO NOT believe in God, are SINNERS.
Men WHO DO NOT believe in men, are what? Sinners? no.
Every man born of the earth IS A SINNER. They are born in their earthly life NOT knowing God, thus they can NOT believe in Him (save Jesus).

The scriptures as a whole from the New Testament do not imply that a born again person "can not" sin.

False.

[QUOTE\Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9 KJV[/QUOTE]

True. And the opposite of what you just claimed.

The idea that it is somehow "impossible" for a born again Christian to sin is not a biblical concept.

It is PRECISELY Biblical! Would you like to testify, since being forgiven BY GOD, of your SINS against HIM, that you can NOW testify AGAINST GOD?

Absolutely Scriptures teaches your body is FORGIVEN and spiritually dead, but yet it physically lives.
Your living body, still has it's carnal mind, that can devise wicked schemes and logically conclude and convince yourself, you MIGHT be okay with getting away with your scheme. Scripture is teaching to RELY on the thoughts in your "new" spirit, in you "new" heart, that is being taught and guided by the POWER and SPIRIT of God, according to HIS TRUTH, WAY, and UNDERSTANDING.

YOU have to control the thoughts of your mind to be submissive to the thoughts of your spirit in your heart, lead by Gods Spirit. And Gods Spirit, dwells within you, giving you the POWER to supersede your carnal minds thoughts. THAT is what a natural man IS practicing...

A forgiven man is NOT practicing to NOT SIN AGAINST GOD - because a saved and born again men CAN NOT SIN AGAINST GOD. Gods Spirit is IN THE MAN, and GOD can not stand against Himself - standing by - while "you" sin against Him.

TRUST His POWER in you.

1 John 4: [4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

TRUST His WORD in you.

1 John 3 [6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:

1 John 3 [9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Yes, I confess my sin, if I commit a sin.

Sounds like you are confessing, you have not been forgiven ALL of your sins, nor been born of God. Because whosoever IS born of God does not commit sin, nor can he sin.

You certainly CAN trespass AGAINST other men. But you are TOLD to go ASK THEM for forgiveness, AND offer reparations for the wrong you have caused them.

Are you saying YOU GO ASK GOD to forgive you for trespasses YOU DO AGAINST OTHER MEN? WHY? What about the ONE who was harmed with your trespass? IS he not the one you are supposed to ASK to forgive you, and YOU forgives others who trespass against you? Are you forgiving SINS or TRESPASSES?

I can NEVER SIN AGAIN AGAINST GOD. He has forgiven me, and KEEPS me with HIS POWER within me, that I can never again not BELIEVE in FULL-faithfulness to Him ONLY.

I can trespass against men. It is by "practicing" to stop my minds thoughts, and listen to my spirits thoughts, that "BY" such methods, MY MIND begins to be like the mind of Christ. It is by KEEPING in Gods Word, KEEPING my fellowship with HIM, that effects my spirits thought trumping my minds thoughts, becoming as second nature.

Rom 12
[2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Yes ^^^^, MY JOB. And what scripture teaches. A mans JOB is to seek and put forth the effort to control his MINDS CARNAL THOUGHTS, with his new spiritual thoughts.

And I KNOW NOT ALL THINGS, thus I can trespass against other men, without INTENT. (we simply call those things "accidents"), however that does not relieve me from seeking the one harmed, via the trespass, to ask for their forgiveness and make amends, and visa versa, should the trespass be against me, to thus forgive them, whether they ask or not.

God Bless,
SBC

JLB777 · Nov 20, 2017

SBC said:
You are espousing being freed from sin, as a choice to practice or not what you have been freed from.

If you are in prison, then freed from prison, do you thereafter practice being a prisoner by occasionally returning to prison?

Your testimony is mixing what is carnal and what is spiritual.

My doctrine teaches that [born again] man has both a body, in which sins dwells, and desires to express it's sinful desires, as well as a spirit, in which the Spirit dwells and desires to express righteousness.

Understanding this, is to understand the writings of the new testament.
Misunderstanding this, is to misunderstand the writings of the new testament.

JLB

SBC · Nov 20, 2017

JLB777 said:
My doctrine teaches that [born again] man has both a body, in which sins dwells, and desires to express it's sinful desires, as well as a spirit, in which the Spirit dwells a desires to express righteousness.

Understanding this, is to understand the writings of the new testament.

Misunderstanding this, is to misunderstand the writings of the new testament.

JLB

I elect to believe Jesus' Doctrine.
Body's of men are out of dust, born in sin, commit sin, can be forgiven their sin, have their soul restored, receive a new heart, receive a new forever living spirit, receive the Holy Spirit of God, and have their forgiven crucified body, justified to be raised and changed into a glorious body.
In the mean-time their physical body remains on earth, until its life (departs) and the body returns to dust. And while it remains on earth, it is Spirit/spirit filled with the Power of God to serve God in the manner He directs that body to serve Him.

Yes the body remains earthly - and while being TOTALLY incapable of ever again sinning against GOD - such body WILL also keep its carnal mind, conjure thoughts, logically conclude things, deal with other men, in relationships, business, neighbors, who may or may not be WITH or AGAINST God.

And our only duty toward other men is to speak Gods Word to Them, not intentionally trespass against them, make amends if we do, and forgive them any trespasses they commit against us. (our minds may attempt to direct us otherwise, yet we have the POWER within us to supersede our carnal minds) Some use that power, some don't.
Those that do - please God and He shall reward accordingly.
Those that do not - shall forego rewards they could have receive.

Our only reasonable service TO GOD is;

Rom 12 [1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

And BTW - Understanding of scriptures, according to God, comes from God, not men.

God Bless,
SBC

GenemZ · Nov 20, 2017

JLB777 said:
What you are attempting to do, is take one word from one verse, and try to build a doctrine around that one word.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9 KJV

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 1 John 3:9 NKJV

The idea of the new testament is that we grow up and mature, through the work of transformation and learn to walk according to the life of the Spirit within us, so that we learn to guard ourselves against sin, that we may learn to walk in the light as He is in the light.

What happens with a very few (who are so pridefully disposed in their flesh) is that they read this passage from a translation that does nothing to explain what it is saying in the Greek. As is, it suites their sense of pride as they cling to it for dear life. Jesus warned... those who try to save their life will lose it - (lose their life in being able to grow spiritually in maturing in Christ).

I will switch to the Amplified translation. It could help to stabilize the insanity some leap to without questioning. All the verses that contradict their assumption should cause them to question, not turn a blind eye (arrogance).

"No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, for God’s nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God."

What that is saying, in terms we can relate to?

Now that you are born again and a new creation in Christ? You can no longer function as you once had been able to before regeneration.. when sinning. You will not be able to continue down that same trail that sin used to lead you to with the same results.

If you try to? It will only cause a new kind of frustration. It will be like going back to a place you used to cherish as a child, only to find its no longer as it once had been. By God's will its meant to cause despair now.

When we are born again all things have become new. Where you used to play and frolic in sin before you were saved? It is now become a run down slum area containing sad, hopeless, and depressed people living in government subsidized housing. Those who want to abide there are enslaved because these souls try to live off their flesh, and end in ruined spiritual lives.

"You will not be able to continue in sin" (as you once had been able to...) You will not be able to continue practicing sin any longer as you once had been able to before the Holy Spirit entered your body.

JLB777 · Nov 26, 2017

genez said:
What happens with a very few (who are so pridefully disposed in their flesh) is that they read this passage from a translation that does nothing to explain what it is saying in the Greek. As is, it suites their sense of pride as they cling to it for dear life. Jesus warned... those who try to save their life will lose it - (lose their life in being able to grow spiritually in maturing in Christ).

I will switch to the Amplified translation. It could help to stabilize the insanity some leap to without questioning. All the verses that contradict their assumption should cause them to question, not turn a blind eye (arrogance).

"No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, for God’s nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God."

What that is saying, in terms we can relate to?

Now that you are born again and a new creation in Christ? You can no longer function as you once had been able to before regeneration.. when sinning. You will not be able to continue down that same trail that sin used to lead you to with the same results.

If you try to? It will only cause a new kind of frustration. It will be like going back to a place you used to cherish as a child, only to find its no longer as it once had been. By God's will its meant to cause despair now.

When we are born again all things have become new. Where you used to play and frolic in sin before you were saved? It is now become a run down slum area containing sad, hopeless, and depressed people living in government subsidized housing. Those who want to abide there are enslaved because these souls try to live off their flesh, and end in ruined spiritual lives.

"You will not be able to continue in sin" (as you once had been able to...) You will not be able to continue practicing sin any longer as you once had been able to before the Holy Spirit entered your body.

That is the context:

Practicing sin vs practicing righteousness.

JLB

GenemZ · Nov 26, 2017

JLB777 said:
That is the context:

Practicing sin vs practicing righteousness.

JLB

I also understand that the Greek says that there is a difference between practicing sin (unbeliever), and imitating your old self (regenerated). That a believer when he sins is imitating his old self, and no longer can practice sin as he once knew before regeneration.

Sadly. many are not being shown this. English translation leave too much unexplained .... which leads to false doctrines having a place to set up camp.

When an unregenerate person sins, he is practicing sin. When a believer sins, he ends up imitating an unbeliever.

In God's eyes when a believer sins, it might appear like someone playing air guitar while hearing Eric Clapton playing on the radio. The air players are not doing the actual playing, but imitating (in their mind) the one who actually does.

That is why we can not continue "practicing" sin as we used to as an unbeliever. That's why we Can't Get No Satisfaction anymore after we have become a new creation in Christ. Trying to find satisfaction in sinning only ends up becoming a punishment in itself.

The great new kind of satisfaction a believer can have is by growing in knowledge and UNDERSTANDING what the unbeliever can not as long as he remains unregenerate. Understanding should become our joy. But, how can their be understanding when so many teach on such a lousy level of their own sloppy thinking?

So be it.

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."

2 Timothy 4:3

JLB777 · Nov 27, 2017

genez said:
I also understand that the Greek says that there is a difference between practicing sin (unbeliever),

Practicing sin refers to Christians who practice sin, or practice the works of the flesh.

We as Christians have been given "all things that pertain to eternal life and godliness" so that we are now able by His Spirit, the Spirit of grace, to live our lives according to the desires of the Spirit, rather than then sinful desires of the flesh.

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 2 Peter 1:2-4

His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

JLB

GenemZ · Nov 27, 2017

JLB777 said:
Practicing sin refers to Christians who practice sin, or practice the works of the flesh.

I do not have the Greek words in front of me... But, they are pronounced as follows.

"Prasso" = to practice sin.

"Poieo" = "to do - to imitate the one who practices sin.

Two entirely different meanings are found in the Greek text to the Greek reader. John was differentiating between how a believer sins, and how the unbeliever practices sin as his normal course of life.

A doctor "practices" medicine. Kids playing doctor imitate a doctor. Kids do not have the capacity to actually practice though they go through the motions... and even emotions.

Here - Lets get some context to show us what John 3:8 concludes. Verse 3:8 is a conclusion of what preceded.

"Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness." 1 Jn 3:4

That was written to the carnal believers. The Greek indicates the target audience by what word was chosen.

"But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin." 1 Jn 3:5

He is in the process of taking away our sins... For as a new believer in carnality we sin and realize for the first time what sinners we are!

As we mature in Christ (the Word) we will stop being carnal.. and will begin living a life where sin becomes more of a rarity... For, He is taking away our sins! By GRACE!

"The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil
has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God
appeared was to destroy the devil’s work." 1 Jn 3:8

That does not say.... The Son has obliterated and completely eliminated the effects of the works of the Devil at this time.It does not. It would read differently if it was so. That sinlessness will only come at the resurrection when we are given our new bodies.

The Greek could have said that our ability to sin has been obliterated, but it does not. Proof? We would not find teachings against carnality amongst believers if that were the case. All who believed would have simply stopped sinning instantly after their salvation if that were the case.

Now? Those who refuse to grow up and mature in the Spirit? These unfortunate ones will die the sin onto death.(1 John 5:16) One way or the other... a believer will not be allowed by God to continue in sin! Either mature, or die the sin onto death.

"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed
remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been
born of God." 1 Jn 3:9

The Spirit in us will not allow for us to continue to sin.

How do we find ourselves enabled to not continue in sin?

Peter tells us how its to be done!

"Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises,
so that through them you may participate in the divine nature,
having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires." 2 Pe 1:4

Here are some notes taken from lessons given by my pastor who taught us from the Greek texts in depth... Nuances are often times lost in English translations.

Through Whoms (Plural - all members of the Godhead) . . . have freely given to us
- to our advantage - extremely valuable and a fantastic number of favors/blessings/promises . . .in order that through these things (favors) you may become partners in the divine endowment . . . having escaped from the degeneracy caused by evil desires (lust pattern of the Old Sin Nature) in the cosmic system."

I believe English translations are only to function as the introduction to God's Word... If we are to fully mature in the Word? We need to be shown what appears in the original languages that God intended the Word to be recorded in.

if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
JLB

That is a choice we are to make. It says... "if by the Spirit." If what some here claim? That we can no longer sin? We would not need be given that choice!

SBC · Nov 27, 2017

genez said:
What happens with a very few (who are so pridefully disposed in their flesh) is that they read this passage from a translation that does nothing to explain what it is saying in the Greek. As is, it suites their sense of pride

It is disingenuous for men who DO NOT ACCEPT the TRUTH in Scripture, to attempt to make OTHERS appear PRIDEFUL, BECAUSE THEY DO ACCEPT the truth in Scripture.

That does not say.... The Son has obliterated and completely eliminated the effects of the works of the Devil at this time.It does not. It would read differently if it was so. That sinlessness will only come at the resurrection when we are given our new bodies.

It is disingenuous for men to attempt to apply Scriptures, to other men; that do not apply, and ignore Scriptures that DO apply.

John 16
[33] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; (Jesus) I have overcome the world.

1 John 2

13] I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
[14] I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

It is disingenuous to call men Prideful, because they TRUST TO BELIEVE God's Power in them KEEPS their FLESH from ever again Standing against God in disbelief.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

It is disingenuous to MAKE CLAIMS for OTHER MEN, saying YOU THINK THEY ARE CLAIMING THEY ARE SINLESS......They have made NO SUCH CLAIM.....nor do you EVER quote them saying such a thing.....but yet you repeatedly make that claim FOR THEM.

Giving a sermon on trying not to PRACTICE SIN, while having the Spirit of God dwelling within a man, is ludicrous. AS IF, the Spirit of God, dwells in a man: powerless to keep the man freed from Sin; and God happily dwells IN THE MAN, WHILE the MAN IS SINNING. NO. God does not stand against Himself!

Rom 6 [7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Everyone who is Crucified with Christ, IS DEAD IN CHRIST, is dead and is freed from sin! Their BODY is Christ's BODY.....the very same that you keep preaching SINS and continues to SIN.

1 Cor 12
[27] Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

IF that has not happened FOR YOU, that is on you.

However it has been effected for MILLIONS, and you calling them PRIDEFUL, or any number of other disingenuous innuendoes you have repeatedly said....simply makes your lack of understanding painfully apparent.

God Bless,
SBC

SBC · Nov 27, 2017

JLB777 said:
Practicing sin refers to Christians who practice sin, or practice the works of the flesh.
JLB

Do you practice not believing in God?

When Jesus began His ministry on the earth - There were FEW who actually LEARNED from Him. FEW who actually was with Him daily, nightly, for THREE years, LEARNING.

Jesus did not speak EVERY DAY to the crowds - thus the transition was during a short period, of Jesus speaking some 46 times to crowds who came to list to Him ~ and?

Some instantly believed, some didn't.

Is that how it worked for you? Is that how you see it work in your Church?

Hearing ONCE a particular parable of Jesus and you INSTANTLY believed? Or regularly see others do the same?

Or did you FIRST LEARN ABOUT JESUS? Then begin to trust His Words?

For the MASSES, who TRUSTED to believe, BEFORE they began to hear all of his Words.... ABSOLUTELY the Disciples, corrected their behavior, taught them HOW to effect a change in their behavior by the Power of God in them.

Come on. It's been over 2,000 years. Sure some are still wandering aimlessly, but seriously? Every Christian Church and parents all over the world are teaching YOUNG children ABOUT Jesus, Jesus' Word, acceptable behavior, behavior that glorifies God. They are doing what the Disciple's did....Jesus' followers did....LEARN ABOUT HIM, hear His Word, DECIDE if you believe, DECIDE if YOU ARE WILLING to do the SAME that JESUS did.....or not.

After Jesus' Disciples were with Him, learning from Him, for 3 years.....then asked ARE YE ABLE, to do what He did......and by all of their admission (except Judas), they said SAID YES, "we are able".... (where is this effected for masses who heard ONE sermon from Jesus? ).... they learned ABOUT Jesus, after the fact, that they believed and submitted!

Matt 20
[22] But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

Point being - Times have become "unlike" when Jesus was bodily walking the earth.
Point being - It has been taught for over 2,000 years, to learn ABOUT God, Hear, Learn, Read.....THEN make SURE, you are ABLE to CHOOSE to do what Jesus did, and then DO IT! His POWER will be with you and IN you to KEEP you freed and sealed from SIN.

2Pet.1

[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

2 Pet 1 tells you what to expect.....and those who preach otherwise are BLIND.

2 Pet 1
[9] But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

We who are freed from sin, don't practice to not sin, we practice listening to our spirit being taught of God, to speak that and do that which Glorifies God.

We of our own power CAN NOT "NOT SIN". It is by though the Lords Spirit, His Power, that we become CLEANSED of SIN, made whole, and His Spirit dwells within us. And no God does not dwell in a Flesh body that Sins.

God Bless.
SBC

JLB777 · Nov 28, 2017

SBC said:
We of our own power CAN NOT "NOT SIN". It is by though the Lords Spirit, His Power, that we become CLEANSED of SIN, made whole, and His Spirit dwells within us. And no God does not dwell in a Flesh body that Sins.

19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.
2 Timothy 2:19-21

Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor,

The Lord has given us everything we need to walk righteously and godly in this life.

It is up to each person to chose, to take what God has given us, and learn to live in dominion over the sinful desires that dwell in our flesh, and the devil who seeks to entice us into his destructive devices, in order to destroy us.

Here are a couple of passages for you to meditate on and consider:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
2 Peter 1:2-9

Key verses:

His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness
for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Romans 12:1-2

Key Verses:

you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God,
do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind

God bless you as you walk in these things, that you may bring honor to our Lord, and do great exploits in His name.

JLB

JLB777 · Nov 28, 2017

genez said:
That is a choice we are to make. It says... "if by the Spirit." If what some here claim? That we can no longer sin? We would not need be given that choice!

Agreed.

SBC · Nov 28, 2017

JLB777 said:
19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.
2 Timothy 2:19-21

Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor,

The Lord has given us everything we need to walk righteously and godly in this life.

It is up to each person to chose, to take what God has given us, and learn to live in dominion over the sinful desires that dwell in our flesh, and the devil who seeks to entice us into his destructive devices, in order to destroy us.

Here are a couple of passages for you to meditate on and consider:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
2 Peter 1:2-9

Key verses:

His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness

for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Romans 12:1-2

Key Verses:

you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God,

do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind

God bless you as you walk in these things, that you may bring honor to our Lord, and do great exploits in His name.

JLB

You are preaching to the choir ~ reiterating what I have already said. I already understand what I have said.

Men can not do anything of their own to initiate being accepted of God...except Believe.
Once they believe it is all the Lords work within the man....to change the man.

Problem is: IMO, many men do not comprehend that internal change ...except ooooh yeah, I'm not going to hell!

The change God makes in a man is not "ONLY" for the man's benefit!
But yet men repeatedly claim ~ ya, ya, I'm saved and born again, and the Holy Spirit of God dwells in me...la la, la, la

....but gee, ya know that Power of God within....well, it doesn't really work so good, eh?....
"cause they claim they still sin" !
.....did Jesus' blood cleansing and forgiveness also fail?
After all they are claiming they do the same as before they were "cleansed", and forgiven, except now, the Holy Spirit is dwelling in their sin.

God Bless,
SBC

SBC · Nov 28, 2017

genez said:
"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed
remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been
born of God." 1 Jn 3:9

If what some here claim? That we can no longer sin?

Click to expand...

You just quoted, NO ONE who is born of God will continue to sin, they can not go on sinning......and you challenge that does not mean, can no longer sin?

Weird.

We would not need be given that choice!

Click to expand...

You are given a choice, if and when you choose to submit to God.

God Bless,
SBC

GenemZ · Nov 28, 2017

JLB777 said:
19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

Again.,,, that involves making a choice. Believers can still sin. If we could not sin? We would not have to be told to depart from it!

I am not advocating sinning as some may think wrongly about me. I am just clarifying for the spiritually misguided who think they can not sin. For we remain capable of a sinning potentially. No longer a slave to it. Its now becomes a choice. Just like sinless Adam made his choice. Thinking one can not sin? It makes for a dangerous combination for something that goes deeper than simple sinning. It enters into a stronghold for doing and being evil. "Smiley" face evil.

Jesus died for our sins. He could not die for evil. If he could? Satan and his angels would now be saved. All who reject him would be saved. Jesus could not reject himself.

Evil rejects the Lord... And the WORD was made flesh. Evil rejects the Word of God and distorts it!

JLB777 · Nov 30, 2017

genez said:
Again.,,, that involves making a choice. Believers can still sin. If we could not sin? We would not have to be told to depart from it!

Yes, I totally agree!

genez said:
I am not advocating sinning as some may think wrongly about me. I am just clarifying for the spiritually misguided who think they can not sin. For we remain capable of a sinning potentially.

Amen

genez said:
Just like sinless Adam made his choice. Thinking one can not sin? It makes for a dangerous combination for something that goes deeper than simple sinning. It enters into a stronghold for doing and being evil. "Smiley" face evil.

Yes sir.

Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

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