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It applies to all the ekklesia. John wrote his letters to the ekklesia.
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It applies to all the ekklesia. John wrote his letters to the ekklesia.Thanks for sharing what applies to you.
God Bless,
SBC
Normally it would be hard to believe someone who claims to know Scripture could think they may be addressed to unbelievers, buyt given the manifest level of deception exampled by those who imagine Scripture actually teaches believers cannot sin, then i can understand why they would need to contrive this text as only applying to the lost, contrary to context:I have seen this verse posted Adnauseam.
1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
I believe it is time for clarification, we need to do some investigating and determine just "WHO" it is, John is actually speaking to.
1 John 1:1-5
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2) (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us)
3) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4) And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1) Christians
2) Non Christians
.It applies to all the ekklesia. John wrote his letters to the ekklesia.
As you (if a actual believer) are also seated together with Christ in Heaven, (Ephesians 2:6; cf. Phil. 3:21) thus to be consistent with your one-dimensional position in which your positional status in Christ is the only reality, then you not only never sin against God, even if you commit adultery with your body and then commit murder ("[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Trespass AGAINST men? Yes. Sin AGAINST God? No.") [/FONT]but you never have to deal with being tired, or restricted to being in one place, etc.
(So-called) Christian Science anyone?
Yet you are accountable to God for what you do in your boy toward others.
No, that is not what Scripture teaches, as shown, and to assert that believers cannot sin is itself sin, since Scripture shows that they can sin, and are chastened for so doing, and exhorts them not to sin, and provides forgiveness for them when thy do, and denying that they they have sinned is condemned.
As said and shown before, contrary to you, mistreating others is sin against God as well as them, and obviously if born again believers do not and cannot sin then John would not be exhorting them not to, and to confess when they do, and that provision is made for their forgiveness when they do, nor would God sometimes need to chasten them, nor would they even need forgiveness, or be called sinners.
None of the texts i quoted as evidencing that believers sin is addressed only to those not born of God, but these are actually who is being directly addressed.
But 2 Peter 3:16 applies to those who claim those who are born of God never can or do sin, as Scripture defines it.
No, that is not what Scripture teaches, as shown, and to assert that believers cannot sin
level of deception exampled by those who imagine Scripture actually teaches believers cannot sin
.Normally it would be hard to believe someone who claims to know Scripture could think they may be addressed to unbelievers, buyt given the manifest level of deception exampled by those who imagine Scripture actually teaches believers cannot sin, then i can understand why they would need to contrive this text as only applying to the lost, contrary to context:
.
I only asked for opinions as to what others believed the verses were written to, nowhere in my post did I ask for personal attacks.
But I Forgive you your Trespass.
Well, my, my .... It is bold of you to credit me with "a man born of God can not sin"..... when it is clearly scripture which says that, that I trust and believe.
It is not I that wrestles with Scripture, but you.
Look at your own words....accusations.
~ wrestling, damnable, exposing, unrighteous, no distinction between sin and trespass
Eph 2
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Whelp, someone made a distinction or a typo, that perhaps should have said:
trespasses and trespasses?
When is not what we see from Scripture but from thee.Ya, gee, don't ya hate it what what you get from Scripture is artificial?
Geeze, and me, I just trust Scripture is the Truth..............wow....
How...damnable.....wow.....what a wrestle.....wow.....laughable.
Such are helps, in contrast to your esoteric elitism.And whoever Robertson is, is not your key to understanding Scripture.
There was no individual named as holding to such, but the charge only applies to those for whom the shoe fits. Thus if it is your shoe size then you should own it..
I only asked for opinions as to what others believed the verses were written to, nowhere in my post did I ask for personal attacks.
But I Forgive you your Trespass.
And since Scripture has clearly been given that shows believers being called sinners, and exhorting them not to sin, and to confess when they do as needing forgiveness, and that provision is made for their forgiveness when they confess, and that God sometimes needs to chasten them for sinning, nor would they even need forgiveness, or be called sinners, then it isSpeaking of deception and imagination.... kudos to you.
Scripture says "whosoever is born of God, can not sin".
No one was deceiving or imagining, but you.
Scripture has clearly been given, "whosoever is born of God, can not sin".
If you believe THAT ^ is deceiving and imagining....have at it....don't be shy....
make your claims that you DENY "whosoever is born of God, can not sin".
God Bless,
SBC
?.
Who be dees Ekklesia, be day Christian Believer Ekklesia, or some other Unbelieving Ekklesia such as dee Jews an dee Gentiles be?
Yes "we" and "us" sure does sound like a corporate group of like faith or belief. Which means John is addressing the ekklesia as we do not see any apostles preach the gospel to unbelievers via letter in the NT especially Acts. It is always personal contact in public or synagogue.Here we see believers clearly identified as "we," with the other party, "you," also being believers, though secondarily would benefit seekers. Thus the only correct answer to your question is Christians.
Stop the ignorance. I clearly stated, "Obviously if born again believers do not and cannot sin then John would not be exhorting them not to, and to confess when they do, and that provision is made for their forgiveness when they do, nor would God sometimes need to chasten them, nor would they even need forgiveness, or be called sinners."If you are going to attempt to lecture me....could you at least, NOT make assertions FOR ME. Otherwise, you are only lecturing yourself on what you say!
Surely you must know the difference between a BELIEVER and a BELIEVER who is born of God.
Surely you must know, I was speaking of men BORN OF GOD.
Surely you must know, there is that itty bitty thingy between BELIEVING, and COMMITMENT to God...
Did you MISS, them receiving the Holy Spirit?
Did you MISS, the lesson?
Believers CAN, not believe, deny, reject, sin.
Men born of God, CAN NOT SIN.
That is quite obvious, otherwise He would not be grieved and convicting the sinning believer to repent, or be in souls who were yet carnal and could even join Christ to a harlot:You think God gives a man His HOLY SPIRIT, To DWELL IN A MAN...while the man SINS?
The believers Paul warns against grieving the Spirit, and states were carnal (1 Co. 3:3ff) and who could defile the church and join Christ to a harlot, were not mere believers.Did you MISS, them believing, THEN doubting? Did you MISS, them believing, THEN denying? Did you MISS, Judas believing, THEN standing against Jesus and betray Him?
What is non-sense is that you maintain your mantra despite Scripture after Scripture refuting you.Because THAT IS WHAT YOU PREACH. And not in the least do I fall for your nonsense. SBC
And since Scripture has clearly been given that shows believers being called sinners,
and exhorting them not to sin, and to confess when they do as needing forgiveness, and that provision is made for their forgiveness when they confess,
and that God sometimes needs to chasten them for sinning, nor would they even need forgiveness, or be called sinners,
then it is obvious "whosoever is born of God, can not sin" cannot mean what you assert.
then it is obvious "whosoever is born of God, can not sin" cannot mean what you assert.
And to assert that is deception.
then it is obvious "whosoever is born of God, can not sin" cannot mean what you assert.
And since the issue is interpretation, then you are either exampling ignorance or sophistical insolence by arguing a text taken in isolation from what Scripture teaches, as shown, is what it means.
And to assert that is deception.
Stop the ignorance. I clearly stated,
No, that is not what Scripture teaches, as shown, and to assert that believers cannot sin is itself sin
As is obvious from what i wrote and referenced, I was not referring to mere intellectual believers, and who departed from the faith, but born again believers whom you do assert cannot sin, but which Scripture teaches can and do.
I have some important work to do before in the next 24 hours and you are not worthy of more time now.
So... Are you saying then? ...Scripture claims IF one is born of God he can not sin. I agree with Scripture.
There is no therefore. I don't testify for you.
God Bless,
SBC
Thanks for sharing what applies to you.
God Bless,
SBC
Col 2:8-15
8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
1Jn. 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Rom. 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom. 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Gal. 2:19
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
When Sin is the Transgression of the Law, how does someone who is DEAD to the Law, Sin?
So... Are you saying then? ...
That from the way you read it? I can not be saved if I sin. Correct?
That only people who no longer sin can be the saved. Correct?
I would like to understand the thoughts and intents of your heart, please.
Thank you.
I would like to understand the thoughts and intents of your heart, please.
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