Or do you think that it was a myth or just occured in some of the world and not all of it?
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Did Noah's flood cover the whole earth including all the mountains with water?
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philadiddle
Drumming circles around you
It's an expression of our relationship with God and His hope for us despite our shortcomings. It uses a myth that was common in that day as a backdrop to express that truth. The flood myth that the Babylonians and Egyptians had, though similar, had a very different meaning and the biblical account was correcting that worldview.
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granpa
Noahide/Rationalist
Genesis 11:9 Biblos Interlinear Bible
and the city was called babel because there overflow YHWH shore all the earth
sounds like a tsunami to me
and the city was called babel because there overflow YHWH shore all the earth
sounds like a tsunami to me
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The waters covered all land + 20'
That is why we have seashells in sedimentary rock on the top of Mt Everest and a single continental shelf at the old water line.
I used an evolutionary site just to show the sedimentary rock has been proven.
That is why we have seashells in sedimentary rock on the top of Mt Everest and a single continental shelf at the old water line.
I used an evolutionary site just to show the sedimentary rock has been proven.
Those of you who think the flood was a myth can correct Jesus when you get to heaven for he seems to think Noah was real.
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Before 1600, it was a serious question among Christians if the sun went around the eath. By 1680, that question was resolved.
A Christian seriously asking if the sun went around the earth in 1750 was ~150 years behind the times.
Before 1800, it was a serious question among Christians if diseases were caused by germs. By 1900, that question was resolved.
A Christian seriously asking if diseases were caused by germs in 2010 was ~100 years behind the times.
Before 1750, it was a serious question among Christians if matter was made up of atoms. By 1910, that question was resolved.
A Christian seriously asking if matter was made up of atoms in 2010 was ~100 years behind the times.
Before 1700, it was a serious question among Christians if a global flood had once covered the whole earth with water. By 1840, that question was resolved.
A Christian seriously asking in 2011 if a global flood had once covered the whole earth with water is over 150 years behind the times.
duordi, this was investigated by Christian geologists (many of them ministers of the Gospel), and they, as Christians, came to the conclusion that no such global flood had ever happened, based on incontrovertible evidence, which has been proven again and again since then.
I encourage you to look into it yourself. Coincidentally, Gluadys just posted a great summary of resources for doing so, from a purely Christian standpoint. That summary is in her post #28, here http://www.christianforums.com/t7609989-3/ . For you convenience, I've copied the relevant part below:
***********
**********************
Enjoy!
Papias
A Christian seriously asking if the sun went around the earth in 1750 was ~150 years behind the times.
Before 1800, it was a serious question among Christians if diseases were caused by germs. By 1900, that question was resolved.
A Christian seriously asking if diseases were caused by germs in 2010 was ~100 years behind the times.
Before 1750, it was a serious question among Christians if matter was made up of atoms. By 1910, that question was resolved.
A Christian seriously asking if matter was made up of atoms in 2010 was ~100 years behind the times.
Before 1700, it was a serious question among Christians if a global flood had once covered the whole earth with water. By 1840, that question was resolved.
A Christian seriously asking in 2011 if a global flood had once covered the whole earth with water is over 150 years behind the times.
duordi, this was investigated by Christian geologists (many of them ministers of the Gospel), and they, as Christians, came to the conclusion that no such global flood had ever happened, based on incontrovertible evidence, which has been proven again and again since then.
I encourage you to look into it yourself. Coincidentally, Gluadys just posted a great summary of resources for doing so, from a purely Christian standpoint. That summary is in her post #28, here http://www.christianforums.com/t7609989-3/ . For you convenience, I've copied the relevant part below:
***********
.....a history of geology as it relates to faith would seem to be suitable.
Here is one that is on-line and if you want more detail you can get the book it is based on.
History of the Collapse of Flood Geology and a Young Earth
I would also recommend browsing through the threads indexed here:
http://www.christianforums.com/t2580923/
While it is a mixed bag, many of these posts are well-researched and lead to further references.
In the second post I recommend especially the two threads on Biogeography by Frumious Bandersnatch and in the third post Jet's Black's articles on the laws of physics and chalk deposits and both articles by Glenn Morton.
Here is one that is on-line and if you want more detail you can get the book it is based on.
History of the Collapse of Flood Geology and a Young Earth
I would also recommend browsing through the threads indexed here:
http://www.christianforums.com/t2580923/
While it is a mixed bag, many of these posts are well-researched and lead to further references.
In the second post I recommend especially the two threads on Biogeography by Frumious Bandersnatch and in the third post Jet's Black's articles on the laws of physics and chalk deposits and both articles by Glenn Morton.
Enjoy!
Papias
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Hi 4760,
I say let's read it all! First we are told: They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered.
The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet.
Alright, let's stop here. All the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered and those mountains were covered to a depth of more than twenty feet.
Let's consider the property of water. It always seeks to level itself. HMMM.
Ok, let's go a bit further.
Every living thing that moved on the earth perished. Birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth.
Wow! God's Spirit, the author of God's word seems to be intent on our understanding that everything died. He starts by telling us that everything on the earth perished and then lists all of what everything includes. Then he has it repeated again. Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. While he repeats that everything died, this time he defines for us that everything includes all creatures that have the breath of life in them. Then he has it repeated again. Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the face of the earth. Finally, he causes to be written to us the natural understanding of what all of this would mean. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.
Gosh, it just seems to me that the Holy Spirit sure wanted us to believe that everything living on the earth meant everything living on the earth.
Then we read: The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.
Ok. Now, let's go back to our previously mentioned property of water.
We are told that the mountains were covered to a depth of at least 20 feet. Alright, let's assume that this only meant the mountains in the immediate vicinity where Noah lived. We have water covering those mountains to a depth of at least 20 feet for 150 days.
Question: What kept the water from following its natural property to level itself for 150 days?
Sure, we have floods today that last maybe a day or two and before it can run through valleys and cover mountains the water behind it begins to recede and it stops at some point and flows back to where it is supposed to be because the level of the water behind it is now lower than the water that is pushing forward to seek level. However, God's word says that this particular flood remained for 150 days. What stopped this water that was covering the mountains in the immediate area that the story is supposed to intend from running into the next valley and the next and covering the next mountain range and the next.
Next, let's consider the mountains, as we see them today, in the area of Mesopotamia. They are some of the highest mountains in the world. Again, what stops water from seeking its level and that water is at least covering a mountain several thousand feet high in the immediate area of this event?
Did men in Europe build a stone wall several thousand feet high to block the water? As if a stone wall built by men could possibly stop such a great weight of water.
So, I think we should all try to picture in our mind and come up with some logical explanation that would prevent flood waters, that are written to be at least 20 feet higher than the highest mountain in the area and that are on the earth for 150 days, from seeking level upon the earth in the days of the flood. What was it that stopped the water.
God bless you all.
In Christ, Ted
I say let's read it all! First we are told: They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered.
The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet.
Alright, let's stop here. All the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered and those mountains were covered to a depth of more than twenty feet.
Let's consider the property of water. It always seeks to level itself. HMMM.
Ok, let's go a bit further.
Every living thing that moved on the earth perished. Birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth.
Wow! God's Spirit, the author of God's word seems to be intent on our understanding that everything died. He starts by telling us that everything on the earth perished and then lists all of what everything includes. Then he has it repeated again. Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. While he repeats that everything died, this time he defines for us that everything includes all creatures that have the breath of life in them. Then he has it repeated again. Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the face of the earth. Finally, he causes to be written to us the natural understanding of what all of this would mean. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.
Gosh, it just seems to me that the Holy Spirit sure wanted us to believe that everything living on the earth meant everything living on the earth.
Then we read: The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.
Ok. Now, let's go back to our previously mentioned property of water.
We are told that the mountains were covered to a depth of at least 20 feet. Alright, let's assume that this only meant the mountains in the immediate vicinity where Noah lived. We have water covering those mountains to a depth of at least 20 feet for 150 days.
Question: What kept the water from following its natural property to level itself for 150 days?
Sure, we have floods today that last maybe a day or two and before it can run through valleys and cover mountains the water behind it begins to recede and it stops at some point and flows back to where it is supposed to be because the level of the water behind it is now lower than the water that is pushing forward to seek level. However, God's word says that this particular flood remained for 150 days. What stopped this water that was covering the mountains in the immediate area that the story is supposed to intend from running into the next valley and the next and covering the next mountain range and the next.
Next, let's consider the mountains, as we see them today, in the area of Mesopotamia. They are some of the highest mountains in the world. Again, what stops water from seeking its level and that water is at least covering a mountain several thousand feet high in the immediate area of this event?
Did men in Europe build a stone wall several thousand feet high to block the water? As if a stone wall built by men could possibly stop such a great weight of water.
So, I think we should all try to picture in our mind and come up with some logical explanation that would prevent flood waters, that are written to be at least 20 feet higher than the highest mountain in the area and that are on the earth for 150 days, from seeking level upon the earth in the days of the flood. What was it that stopped the water.
God bless you all.
In Christ, Ted
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Assyrian
Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
Exodus 10:15 And they covered the face of the whole earth, so that the earth was darkened; and they ate every herb of the land, and all the fruit of the trees which the hail had left: and there was not left any green thing on the trees, or on the herbs of the field, throughout all the land of Egypt.
Deut 2:25 This day will I begin to put the dread of thee and the fear of thee upon the nations that are under the whole heaven; whoever will hear the report of thee, shall tremble, and shall quake because of thee.
Deut 2:25 This day will I begin to put the dread of thee and the fear of thee upon the nations that are under the whole heaven; whoever will hear the report of thee, shall tremble, and shall quake because of thee.
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philadiddle
Drumming circles around you
It's interesting how some Christians prefer to make the story about a past event, and when given the opportunity to understand what it means about us and our relationship with God in the present, they wickedly deny that it could be interpretted in that way and condemn anyone who does so. I wonder how God feels about the fact that the meaning is lost to those who spend their time calculating the amount of water it would take to cover the mountains and how it may have shaped the physical world.
It makes me sad.
It makes me sad.
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You give an interesting slant on history and then seem to suggest because you are in agreement with the majority you are correct.
I should point out to you that in every example you gave the majority is proven incorrect by the minority.
Why do you suppose this trend exists?
If everyone submits to the majority opinion we would apparently still believe the earth is flat becase there would be no one to suggest something different.
I believe that the truth has a way of being very persistent and I have as much faith in the idea that life is recent on earth as you have faith that it is not.
I am looking forward to the conversation we no doubt will have on this topic.
Duordi
I should point out to you that in every example you gave the majority is proven incorrect by the minority.
Why do you suppose this trend exists?
If everyone submits to the majority opinion we would apparently still believe the earth is flat becase there would be no one to suggest something different.
I believe that the truth has a way of being very persistent and I have as much faith in the idea that life is recent on earth as you have faith that it is not.
I am looking forward to the conversation we no doubt will have on this topic.
Duordi
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It is true that earth can mean dust a plot of land, or even the continents.
You can mess with the meaning of a word because it has multiple meanings but the intend of the text is clear.
In both the passages you quote the area is defined as where the nations are or in the land of Egypt.
In the flood text the water level on the earth is defined.
Perhaps this is because God knew people would doubt Him if He didn't make it very clear.
There is enough evidence to suggest that there was a world flood without the Bible. Mount Everest is made from sedimentary rock created under water with sea shells in it.
You really have to have blinders on not to see it.
Duordi
You can mess with the meaning of a word because it has multiple meanings but the intend of the text is clear.
In both the passages you quote the area is defined as where the nations are or in the land of Egypt.
In the flood text the water level on the earth is defined.
Perhaps this is because God knew people would doubt Him if He didn't make it very clear.
There is enough evidence to suggest that there was a world flood without the Bible. Mount Everest is made from sedimentary rock created under water with sea shells in it.
You really have to have blinders on not to see it.
Duordi
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If someone wants to calculate water quantities let them.
I do not believe it is a sin.
Of course they need to keep track of their assumptions.
Remember that their is a strong possibility that the mountains are higher now and the oceans deeper so it doesn't work to assume elevations are as they were.
There are some passages which indicate the Earths continents flooded on the mantle and the run off waters dispersed into the oceans while the ocean floor sank.
JOB 38
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.
This is not a history text so we can't know for sure what this is talking about on the other hand it would explain a lot.
Duodi
I do not believe it is a sin.
Of course they need to keep track of their assumptions.
Remember that their is a strong possibility that the mountains are higher now and the oceans deeper so it doesn't work to assume elevations are as they were.
There are some passages which indicate the Earths continents flooded on the mantle and the run off waters dispersed into the oceans while the ocean floor sank.
JOB 38
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.
This is not a history text so we can't know for sure what this is talking about on the other hand it would explain a lot.
Duodi
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Everest has shells on it, because it started underwater, before rising from continental drift over millions of years. It doesn't have sea shells because the waters rose up to the top of it and covered it.It is true that earth can mean dust a plot of land, or even the continents.
You can mess with the meaning of a word because it has multiple meanings but the intend of the text is clear.
In both the passages you quote the area is defined as where the nations are or in the land of Egypt.
In the flood text the water level on the earth is defined.
Perhaps this is because God knew people would doubt Him if He didn't make it very clear.
There is enough evidence to suggest that there was a world flood without the Bible. Mount Everest is made from sedimentary rock created under water with sea shells in it.
You really have to have blinders on not to see it.
Duordi
I'll also remind you, the Global flood is said to have occurred right during the epitome of the Ancient Egyptian civilization and the building of the Great Pyramids. Amazing how the builders of Khufu's pyramid never noticed the 6 mile high wall of water above their heads.
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If someone wants to calculate water quantities let them.
I do not believe it is a sin.
Of course they need to keep track of their assumptions.
Remember that their is a strong possibility that the mountains are higher now and the oceans deeper so it doesn't work to assume elevations are as they were.
There are some passages which indicate the Earths continents flooded on the mantle and the run off waters dispersed into the oceans while the ocean floor sank.
JOB 38
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.
This is not a history text so we can't know for sure what this is talking about on the other hand it would explain a lot.
Duodi
You don't seem to understand Geophysics very well if you believe that.
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You have been taught one side of the story your whole life and so you can only think from that perspective.
There is another perspective which explains the same data.
It is consistent with its own assumptions and explains many things which the evolutionary theory does not.
Every so often things which are predicted by recent earth life are proven true and the evolutionists theory has to be modified to compensate for it.
Of course each time the evolutionary theory becomes more complicated indicating it is flawed.
We can go through a list if you like.
Durodi
There is another perspective which explains the same data.
It is consistent with its own assumptions and explains many things which the evolutionary theory does not.
Every so often things which are predicted by recent earth life are proven true and the evolutionists theory has to be modified to compensate for it.
Of course each time the evolutionary theory becomes more complicated indicating it is flawed.
We can go through a list if you like.
Durodi
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granpa
Noahide/Rationalist
what is the largest flood to ever occur on earth?
what is the largest flood to occur since hominids have been on earth?
what is the largest flood to occur since the genus 'homo' has been on earth?
what is the largest flood to occur since homo sapiens has been on earth?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaflood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megatsunami
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake_Bay_impact_crater
Ardipithecus is a very early hominin genus. Two species are described in the literature: A. ramidus, which lived about 4.4 million years ago[1] during the early Pliocene, and A. kadabba, dated to approximately 5.6 million years ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanclean_flood
The Zanclean flood (also known as "Zanclean Deluge") is a flood theorized to have refilled the Mediterranean Sea 5.33 million years ago
A channel opened from the Atlantic Ocean, through the modern-day Gibraltar Strait, and carried ocean water over a distance of over 200 km. The Mediterranean Sea was filled over a period estimated between several months and two years.[3] Sea level rise in the basin may have reached rates at times greater than ten metres per day
what is the largest flood to occur since hominids have been on earth?
what is the largest flood to occur since the genus 'homo' has been on earth?
what is the largest flood to occur since homo sapiens has been on earth?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaflood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megatsunami
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake_Bay_impact_crater
Ardipithecus is a very early hominin genus. Two species are described in the literature: A. ramidus, which lived about 4.4 million years ago[1] during the early Pliocene, and A. kadabba, dated to approximately 5.6 million years ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanclean_flood
The Zanclean flood (also known as "Zanclean Deluge") is a flood theorized to have refilled the Mediterranean Sea 5.33 million years ago
A channel opened from the Atlantic Ocean, through the modern-day Gibraltar Strait, and carried ocean water over a distance of over 200 km. The Mediterranean Sea was filled over a period estimated between several months and two years.[3] Sea level rise in the basin may have reached rates at times greater than ten metres per day
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AgapeGrace
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Untill reading this thread I had always thought it was the whole world which flooded.
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No, I actually used to be a creationist. I've studied it from both sides, and creationism failed badly.
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granpa
Noahide/Rationalist
Megatsunami - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Prehistoric [edit]
Prehistoric [edit]
- The asteroid which created the Chicxulub crater in Yucatan approximately 65 million years ago would have generated megatsunamis as high as 3 kilometers (1.9 mi); enough to completely inundate even large islands such as Madagascar.[3]
- A series of megatsunami were generated by the bolide impact that created the Chesapeake Bay impact crater, about 35.5 million years ago.[4]
- At Seton Portage, British Columbia, Canada, a freshwater megatsunami may have occurred approximately 10,000 years ago.[5] A huge block of the Cayoosh Range suddenly slid northwards into what had been a large lake spanning the area from Lillooet, British Columbia to near Birken, in the Gates Valley or Pemberton Pass to the southwest. The event has not been studied in detail, but the proto-lake (freshwater fjord) may have been at least as deep as the two present-day halves, Seton and Anderson Lakes, on either side of the Portage, suggesting that the surge generated by the giant landslide in the narrow mountain confines of the fjord valley may have been comparable in scale to Lituya Bay[citation needed]. Another more recent landslide on the south shore of Anderson Lake dropped a large portion of high mountainside down a debris chute, creating a rockwall "fan" which may have made a megatsunami-type wave, though not as large as the main one at the Portage.[citation needed]
- Approximately 8,000 years ago, a massive volcanic landslide off of Mt. Etna, Sicily caused a megatsunami which devastated the eastern Mediterranean coastline on three continents.[6]
- In the Norwegian Sea, the Storegga Slide caused a megatsunami approximately 7,000 years ago.[7]
- Approximately 6000 years ago, a landslide on Réunion island, to the east of Madagascar, may have caused a megatsunami.[8]
- Evidence for large landslides has been found in the form of extensive underwater debris aprons around many volcanic ocean islands which are composed of the material which has slid into the ocean. The island of Molokai had a catastrophic collapse over a million years ago; this underwater landslide likely caused large tsunamis. In recent years, five such debris aprons have been found around the Hawaiian Islands. The Canary Islands have at least 14 such debris aprons associated with the archipelago.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed
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