Did Mary have a savior?

Aldebaran said:

You keep using the word "we". Who are you referring to besides yourself?

Click to expand...

What does it say in my profile? I'm Catholic. EO and others agree with us.

Root of Jesse said:

When the priests crossed the Jordan at Jericho, one of the bearers stumbled, and another tried to steady the ark, touched it, and died. Thanks.

Click to expand...

That doesn't support your assertion at all.

W2L said:

That doesn't support your assertion at all.

Click to expand...

I understand that you don't think so, but it's true. The Ark and it's contents were not to be touched by sin. But we're getting off the topic. Mary did have a savior, needed a savior. The question is when was she saved? We believe it was before she was born.

Root of Jesse said:

I understand that you don't think so, but it's true. The Ark and it's contents were not to be touched by sin. But we're getting off the topic. Mary did have a savior, needed a savior. The question is when was she saved? We believe it was before she was born.

Click to expand...

You posted a scripture that had absolutely nothing to do with the bread of life being in the ark. Nothing.

Heb. 9:4, "having a golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden jar holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod which budded, and the tables of the covenant."

Root of Jesse said:

Heb. 9:4, "having a golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden jar holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod which budded, and the tables of the covenant."

Click to expand...

So Mary is the mercy seat? Or do you not go that far?

Root of Jesse said:

Heb. 9:4, "having a golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden jar holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod which budded, and the tables of the covenant."

Click to expand...

That manna is not the true manna. Hebrews says that was symbolic. Hebrews 9:9

John 6:32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

Root of Jesse said:

When the priests crossed the Jordan at Jericho, one of the bearers stumbled, and another tried to steady the ark, touched it, and died. Thanks.

Click to expand...

Your ignorance of the Bible is sadly showing here. The event you cited did not occur when the Ark of the Covenant was being carried across the Jordan at Jericho. A similar event is recorded in II Samuel 6, here -

6:1 Now David again gathered all the chosen men of Israel, thirty thousand. 2 And David arose and went with all the people who were with him to Baale-judah, to bring up from there the ark of God which is called by the Name, the very name of the Lord of hosts who is enthroned above the cherubim. 3 They placed the ark of God on a new cart that they might bring it from the house of Abinadab which was on the hill; and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, were leading the new cart. 4 So they brought it with the ark of God from the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill; and Ahio was walking ahead of the ark. 5 Meanwhile, David and all the house of Israel were celebrating before the Lord with all kinds of instruments made of fir wood, and with lyres, harps, tambourines, castanets and cymbals.


6 But when they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out toward the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen nearly upset it. 7 And the anger of the Lord burned against Uzzah, and God struck him down there for his irreverence; and he died there by the ark of God. 8 David became angry because of the Lord’s outburst against Uzzah, and that place is called Perez-uzzah to this day. 9 So David was afraid of the Lord that day; and he said, “How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” 10 And David was unwilling to move the ark of the Lord into the city of David with him; but David took it aside to the house of Obed-edom the Gittite. 11 Thus the ark of the Lord remained in the house of Obed-edom the Gittite three months, and the Lord blessed Obed-edom and all his household.

Please note that nowhere in the text is the Ark compared to a human female uterus.

Hammster said:

So Mary is the mercy seat? Or do you not go that far?

Click to expand...

Further, actually. Mary is the Ark of the Covenant, and Revelation actually describes her as the Ark of the Covenant.

W2L said:

That manna is not the true manna. Hebrews says that was symbolic. Hebrews 9:9

John 6:32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

Click to expand...

Nope. The symbol were the sacrifices of the animals made by the people for their sins. Hebrews 9 doesn't relate to John 6. But Jesus saying "I am the bread of life" is one of the ways Mary is shown as the pure vessel, the Ark of the Covenant.

Root of Jesse said:

Nope. The symbol were the sacrifices of the animals made by the people for their sins. Hebrews 9 doesn't relate to John 6. But Jesus saying "I am the bread of life" is one of the ways Mary is shown as the pure vessel, the Ark of the Covenant.

Click to expand...

It mentioned the manna too. As for the rest of your comments i am scratching my head.

bbbbbbb said:

Your ignorance of the Bible is sadly showing here. The event you cited did not occur when the Ark of the Covenant was being carried across the Jordan at Jericho. A similar event is recorded in II Samuel 6, here -

6:1 Now David again gathered all the chosen men of Israel, thirty thousand. 2 And David arose and went with all the people who were with him to Baale-judah, to bring up from there the ark of God which is called by the Name, the very name of the Lord of hosts who is enthroned above the cherubim. 3 They placed the ark of God on a new cart that they might bring it from the house of Abinadab which was on the hill; and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, were leading the new cart. 4 So they brought it with the ark of God from the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill; and Ahio was walking ahead of the ark. 5 Meanwhile, David and all the house of Israel were celebrating before the Lord with all kinds of instruments made of fir wood, and with lyres, harps, tambourines, castanets and cymbals.


6 But when they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out toward the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen nearly upset it. 7 And the anger of the Lord burned against Uzzah, and God struck him down there for his irreverence; and he died there by the ark of God. 8 David became angry because of the Lord’s outburst against Uzzah, and that place is called Perez-uzzah to this day. 9 So David was afraid of the Lord that day; and he said, “How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” 10 And David was unwilling to move the ark of the Lord into the city of David with him; but David took it aside to the house of Obed-edom the Gittite. 11 Thus the ark of the Lord remained in the house of Obed-edom the Gittite three months, and the Lord blessed Obed-edom and all his household.

Please note that nowhere in the text is the Ark compared to a human female uterus.

Click to expand...

Your attack is ridiculous. Yeah, I mis-stated the crossing of the Jordan, but in no way am I ignorant of Scripture. I study it every day, even though I don't remember or cross some things up. Thanks for correcting me, but my statement still stands. The Ark of the Covenant demanded purity, even so, only a high priest, once a year, after being purified ritually, could be in the presence of the ark. And the contents were holy. Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant, and therefore pure-sinless.
Your ignorance of what I'm saying is showing. Nowhere did I say that the Ark of the Covenant can be compared to "a female uterus". Nowhere did I say Mary's uterus was the new Ark of the Covenant.

Such a notion seems very far fetched.

Root of Jesse said:

Further, actually. Mary is the Ark of the Covenant, and Revelation actually describes her as the Ark of the Covenant.

Click to expand...

The mercy seat is.....where?

W2L said:

Such a notion seems very far fetched.

Click to expand...

Shall we say that it expresses extreme creativity?

bbbbbbb said:

Shall we say that it expresses extreme creativity?

Click to expand...

To say the least, yes.

W2L said:

It mentioned the manna too. As for the rest of your comments i am scratching my head.

Click to expand...

Then I'll leave you to figure it out.

Aldebaran said:

The Ark of the Covenant was a representation of God being with His people. Jesus Christ was God in the flesh here on Earth. Now, the Holy Spirit inside of us is God in the world. (No, I'm not saying that we're God.)
But Mary? Certainly NOT the new "Ark of the Covenant". She has no need to be anyway.

Click to expand...

The Ark of the Covenant, also known as the "Holy of Holies", was not just a representation. It was holy, and those who touched it died. Jesus was God, is God, and always will be God, and was in the womb of Mary, as he said the bread of life. She also held the Word of God and the Royal Priest in her womb at the same time, and therefore, we see her as the New Ark of the Covenant. Remember, the Ark disappeared, nowhere to be found, until John saw it again in Revelation. In the Old Testament, the Ark of the Covenant bore the tablets of God’s covenant, God’s word in stone. In the New Testament, Mary carries God’s Word in flesh, Jesus Christ, who will bring the New Covenant that Jeremiah foresaw so long ago (see Jeremiah 31:27-34).
But John, the author of Revelation, tells us directly that he saw the Ark of the Covenant - the holy object that had been lost since Jeremiah’s time - in a vision.

“Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm. A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth” (see Revelation 11:19 and Revelation 12:1-2).

If the Ark had been seen, then the time Jeremiah spoke of must have come: the time when “God gathers his people together again and shows them mercy,” the time when “the glory of the Lord will be seen in the cloud, just as it appeared in the time of Moses” (see 2 Maccabees 7-8)

And indeed the sights and sounds are the same as in the time of Moses - storm and earthquake:

“There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm” (see Revelation 11:19).

“On the morning of the third day there were peals of thunder and lightning, and a heavy cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast, so that all the people in the camp trembled . . . Mount Sinai was all wrapped in smoke, for the LORD came down upon it in fire. The smoke rose from it as though from a furnace, and the whole mountain trembled violently” (see Exodus 19:16, 18)

Naturally, we want to hear more about the rediscovered Ark of the Covenant. And John goes on to describe what he sees: “a woman clothed with the sun” (see Revelation 12:1).

The Ark of the Covenant was the sign of God’s real presence among His people. In Jesus Christ, born of Mary, God was really present among his people in an even more direct way.

The Ark held the Word of God written in stone. Mary bore the Word of God in flesh

The Ark held the bread from heaven, a foreshadowing of the Eucharist (see 1 Corinthians 10:1-4). Mary bore the Bread of Life, Jesus Christ (see John 6:48-50).

The Ark contained the rod of Aaron, symbol of his priesthood. Mary bore Jesus Christ, our High Priest (see Hebrews 3:1).

If the Ark of the Covenant was holy, then by the same standards Mary is even holier. As Mother of God, she is the Ark of the New Covenant, bearing Jesus Christ, the Word of God, the Bread of Life, our great High Priest. That is not a re-interpretation of the Gospel: it is a truth made clear by the New Testament writers themselves.

Hammster said:

The mercy seat is.....where?

Click to expand...

Jesus.