Did Jude quote from the Book of Enoch?

[tonychanyt]

1 Enoch 1::

9 And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones To execute judgment upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

Jude 1:

14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, 15 to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

Did Jude quote from the Book of Enoch?

I think so. Jude's quotation bore a strong resemblance to 1 Enoch 1:9. Further, he attributed it to the name "Enoch", the 7th from Adam:

1. Adam
2. Seth
3. Enosh
4. Kenan
5. Mahalalel
6. Jared
7. Enoch.

Even so, the Book of Enoch should not be part of the canon. Yet, I do not reject all its contents outright. I weigh each piece on a case-by-case basis. 1 Enoch 1:9 is okay.

 

[Paleouss]

Did Jude quote from the Book of Enoch?

It seems to me the options are these.

1) Jude quoted from the oral records and traditions handed down over time (which most Jews knew). Therefore, the Book of Enoch in this case, would be simply recording the same oral tradition that Jude appears to quote.
2) Quoted from the actual Book of Enoch (but which one?)
3) Quoted from the inspiration of God (which could be in conjunction with 1 or 2).

Regarding #1, most advocates for the Book of Enoch suggest that the Book of Enoch is ground zero for all the information within it. However, this is clearly false. First, because the Book of Enoch was not written by Enoch himself. The Book of Enoch is a complilation of many writtings by multiple authors that was put together as one book and dates around 300-100 BC. The second option for the Book of Enoch to be the ground zero origins of any true information would be the inspiration and visions from God during the period in which it was written (because it wasn't written by Enoch himself). But it could not have been inspired by God because God had cut off the Jewish people from vision and prophets during the period in which is was written (God's proclaimed silent period).

Regarding #2, it could be the case that Jude quotes the Book of Enoch. Although Jude doesn't technically say he is quoting from the book. He says he is quoting Enoch. The Book of Enoch doesn't have sole rights to everything Enoch (especially if the stories are true). There is a difference. Also, there have been found many fragments of the Book of Enoch with many differences and changes within each. So if Jude does actually quote from the Book of Enoch...which one?

Regarding #3, it is my opinion that this option is clearly the case. However, it most certianly could be in conjuction with 1 or 2? Which one, I don't know. I don't think anyone knows.

A good background about this is at academia.edu by Darrin Schick...

Evil Spirits And Demons: An In Depth Look At Why The Book Of Enoch Should Be Questioned​

Even so, the Book of Enoch should not be part of the canon.

I agree

Yet, I do not reject all its contents outright.

I hold more of what the early church fathers held. That the Book of Enoch contains some truth, but also contains many false statements. Thus, it should not be considered for the canon nor used in creating theology in any way. Only as a reading for further insight into doctrine already created solely within the biblical canon.

Peace be with you brother

 

[Daniel9v9]

I don't know if it's right, but I have a theory about this. I wonder if perhaps there were prophecies that became well known at the time, that were included by the author of Enoch. So in this way, the prophecy could be true, while the text as a whole is pseudepigrapha.

Whatever we believe about it, we can find similar passages throughout God's Word, so what Jude is writing is good, right, and from the Holy Spirit.
cf. Deuteronomy 33:2; Daniel 7:10; Matthew 25:31; 2 Thessalonians 1:7

 

[Grip Docility]

1 Enoch 1::


Jude 1:


Did Jude quote from the Book of Enoch?

I think so. Jude's quotation bore a strong resemblance to 1 Enoch 1:9. Further, he attributed it to the name "Enoch", the 7th from Adam:

1. Adam
2. Seth
3. Enosh
4. Kenan
5. Mahalalel
6. Jared
7. Enoch.

Even so, the Book of Enoch should not be part of the canon. Yet, I do not reject all its contents outright. I weigh each piece on a case-by-case basis. 1 Enoch 1:9 is okay.

Jude carries a very specific verse that is quite scandalous. It has to do with the tense of the verse.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Doesn't it say in Enoch that a deception in the Last Days will involve folks deceived into believing that the earth circumnavigates the sun ?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

1 Enoch 1::


Jude 1:


Did Jude quote from the Book of Enoch?

I think so. Jude's quotation bore a strong resemblance to 1 Enoch 1:9. Further, he attributed it to the name "Enoch", the 7th from Adam:

1. Adam
2. Seth
3. Enosh
4. Kenan
5. Mahalalel
6. Jared
7. Enoch.

Even so, the Book of Enoch should not be part of the canon. Yet, I do not reject all its contents outright. I weigh each piece on a case-by-case basis. 1 Enoch 1:9 is okay.

Yeah, it seems clear that he did quote from the Book of Enoch, but, as you said, that doesn't mean the Book of Enoch should be part of the canon. There are things in that book that aren't true. I'm not going to go into that in detail here. People can do some research and see that for themselves.

There's nothing wrong with quoting from a book or other source if what you're quoting from it is true. Paul even quoted some Greek sources that were not biblical in order to support a point he was making.

Here's one example: in Acts 17:28

Acts 17:26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

Obviously, whatever book of poetry he was referencing there should not be made part of the Bible just because Paul quoted from it. No one would argue for that. What he quoted wasn't even about God, but he showed how a statement like that can only apply to the one true God and not to any man or false god.

There are other examples like that, but I think the point has been made.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Doesn't it say in Enoch that a deception in the Last Days will involve folks deceived into believing that the earth circumnavigates the sun ?

I don't know, but I hope you're realizing the point of this thread, which is that just because one verse was quoted from the Book of Enoch it doesn't mean the whole book can be trusted to be true.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Jude carries a very specific verse that is quite scandalous. It has to do with the tense of the verse.

What are you talking about exactly?

 

[Carl Emerson]

I don't know, but I hope you're realizing the point of this thread, which is that just because one verse was quoted from the Book of Enoch it doesn't mean the whole book can be trusted to be true.

I agree...

However some of the most stunning messianic prophesy is found in the book !!!

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I agree...

However some of the most stunning messianic prophesy is found in the book !!!

Yeah, just be careful about how you treat it. Don't take it as God's word, obviously. It's interesting, though, I'll acknowledge that much.

 

[Grip Docility]

What are you talking about exactly?

Jude 1:6

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Jude 1:6

Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

That's from the NIV, but I'm not sure what your preferred translation is. Anyway, what is "quite scandalous" about this verse?

There is another similar verse to that one:

2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yeah, just be careful about how you treat it. Don't take it as God's word, obviously. It's interesting, though, I'll acknowledge that much.

To specify in detail concerning Jesus more than a thousand years before He came deserves more than a casual acknowledgement.
Jesus and Jude also referred to Enoch who was addressed in Scripture as a prophet.

 

[Paul4JC]

About 1/3 of Jude is alluding clearly to 1 Enoch, as do parts of 1st and 2nd Peter.

So the fact of the matter is that Jude which is part of the New Testament, which is Canon, quotes 1 Enoch and more.

The main reason this is suppressed by many Christians, as it was by many church fathers, is that they are/were uncomfortable with the view that fallen angels could have sex with human women. However, the means was more about an end they wanted to achieve, which thankfully they failed at.

[Gen 3:15 NIV] And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring(seed) and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."

 

[Carl Emerson]

About 1/3 of Jude is alluding clearly to 1 Enoch, as do parts of 1st and 2nd Peter.

So the fact of the matter is that Jude which is part of the New Testament, which is Canon, quotes 1 Enoch and more.

The main reason this is suppressed by many Christians, as it was by many church fathers, is that they are/were uncomfortable with the view that fallen angels could have sex with human women. However, the means was more about an end they wanted to achieve, which thankfully they failed at.

[Gen 3:15 NIV] And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring(seed) and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."

Lot was deeply concerned by the local wicked wanting to copulate with his angel friends.

He would hardly be so distraught if it was impossible.

 

[David Lamb]

Lot was deeply concerned by the local wicked wanting to copulate with his angel friends.

He would hardly be so distraught if it was impossible.

True, but we are not told that Lot knew they were angels. Unlike the pictures we see so often, in the bible, angels are spiritual beings, who sometimes assume human form when they visit mankind. Hence we are told that "some have entertained angels unawares". They could hardly do that if the angels had huge wings sticking out of their backs. Abraham hadn't recognised them as angels. The "local wicked" in Sodom said:

“Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them [carnally].” (Ge 19:5 NKJV)

They didn't ask about angels, but men.

 

[Carl Emerson]

True, but we are not told that Lot knew they were angels. Unlike the pictures we see so often, in the bible, angels are spiritual beings, who sometimes assume human form when they visit mankind. Hence we are told that "some have entertained angels unawares". They could hardly do that if the angels had huge wings sticking out of their backs. Abraham hadn't recognised them as angels. The "local wicked" in Sodom said:

“Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them [carnally].” (Ge 19:5 NKJV)

They didn't ask about angels, but men.

Maybe they knew Angels appear as men - we don't really know.

Do you think the greeting Lot gave them would be the same for strangers ?

 

[David Lamb]

Maybe they knew Angels appear as men - we don't really know.

Do you think the greeting Lot gave them would be the same for strangers ?

Both Abraham and Lot treated the angels as if they were men, preparing food for them, etc. The commentaries I use, including Barnes, Gill, Jamieson Fawcett and Brown, and Poole, all say that Hebrews 13:2 (about entertaining angels unawares) is referring to Abraham and Lot.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Both Abraham and Lot treated the angels as if they were men, preparing food for them, etc. The commentaries I use, including Barnes, Gill, Jamieson Fawcett and Brown, and Poole, all say that Hebrews 13:2 (about entertaining angels unawares) is referring to Abraham and Lot.

Could be, yet that would not exclude the possibility of doing so in this or any age.

 

[Paleouss]

Yeah, it seems clear that he did quote from the Book of Enoch, but, as you said, that doesn't mean the Book of Enoch should be part of the canon.

It is not clear to me that Jude quoted from the Book of Enoch. Although I would concede that it is most certianly possible. For it to be clear to anyone then the Book of Enoch must have (1) been written by Enoch himself (it was not) OR (2) been written by divine inspiration, visions, and a prophet during the time in which it was written in 300-100 BC (It could not have been do to God's proclamation that there would be no more prophets and visions until Elijah). Therefore it is unclear to me, and IMO should be unclear to everyone, on whether Jude qoutes the Book of Enoch. Although, again, it is possible.

Due to the facts above (1&2), the Book of Enoch would seem to be, if any part of it is true, (A) a recording of already known oral lore, legends, and myths put to scroll for the first time in which most Jews of the times, and Jude, whould have already known. In this case Jude quotes the oral tradition of Enoch, not the Book of Enoch. And the Book of Enoch records the quote of the oral tradition of Enoch as well . Thus the Book of Enoch records the same oral tradition that Jude quotes.

The other possibilities of how the Book of Enoch got its information, besides (A) above, is (B) the author receiving false visions (it claims itself to have received information from
"angels") or (C) the authors made it up.

Obviously, whatever book of poetry he was referencing there should not be made part of the Bible just because Paul quoted from it. No one would argue for that. What he quoted wasn't even about God, but he showed how a statement like that can only apply to the one true God and not to any man or false god.

I agree. No one thinks the source that Paul quotes should be considered inspired or canon. Paul quotes Aratus (315-245 BC) and Epimenides (6th centery BC). Both are pantheists and referring to Zeus in their writings.

Peace be with you my brother