Did Joseph Smith See God?

[unbound]

In Joseph Smiths history, he claims to have seen two personages. One says to the other " this is my son, hear him".

Were these personages actually God and Jesus appearing to JS?

 

[fatboys]

In Joseph Smiths history, he claims to have seen two personages. One says to the other " this is my son, hear him".

Were these personages actually God and Jesus appearing to JS?

FB: I am waiting with baited breath for your point on this post.

 

[unbound]

I am trying to get a straight answer.

 

[Rescued One]

FB: I am waiting with baited breath for your point on this post.

Shucks! I was expecting more from you than this, fatboys.

 

[AMMON]

In Joseph Smiths history, he claims to have seen two personages. One says to the other " this is my son, hear him".

Were these personages actually God and Jesus appearing to JS?

Yes. God the Father and His Divine Son, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, appeared to and spoke with the young Joseph Smith, who would later become the Prophet Joseph Smith.

 

[fatboys]

Yes. God the Father and His Divine Son, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, appeared to and spoke with the young Joseph Smith, who would later become the Prophet Joseph Smith.

FB: Lets see if I can guess.

Unbound could say, what about the eight different versions of the first vision. Some only refer to an angel.

 

[AMMON]

FB: Lets see if I can guess.

Unbound could say, what about the eight different versions of the first vision. Some only refer to an angel.

I am aware that is their likely response. It always is.

 

[unbound]

Lets see, Joseph Smith did not have the priesthood at that time, and according to this verse, he could not have been able to see him and live.

D&C 84:21 And without the ordinances thereof, and the power of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;
22 For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.

 

[unbound]

Thought you had me all figured out, didnt ya?

 

[AMMON]

Lets see, Joseph Smith did not have the priesthood at that time, and according to this verse, he could not have been able to see him and live.

D&C 84:21 And without the ordinances thereof, and the power of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;
22 For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.

Did I say he saw his face? Nope. Perhaps he had a mask on so that Joseph wouldn't die... get back to you with a serious response later.

 

[unbound]

Did I say he saw his face? Nope. Perhaps he had a mask on so that Joseph wouldn't die... get back to you with a serious response later.

Thats probably the best response I will get.

 

[A New Dawn]

Lets see, Joseph Smith did not have the priesthood at that time, and according to this verse, he could not have been able to see him and live.

D&C 84:21 And without the ordinances thereof, and the power of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;
22 For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.

It was a vision. That's why it is called the First Vision.

People can see things in visions and withstand them better than seeing them in person.

 

[unbound]

It was a vision. That's why it is called the First Vision.

People can see things in visions and withstand them better than seeing them in person.

I dont read anywhere in that account where JS called it a vision. Although if it was, JS was still a man, and bound by the verse in D&C, whether it was a vision or not.

However, one could claim the "personages" were not the "full" bodies of God and his son.

Do the LDS feel that JS saw the actual enities of God and Jesus as they would appear in heaven?

 

[A New Dawn]

I dont read anywhere in that account where JS called it a vision. Although if it was, JS was still a man, and bound by the verse in D&C, whether it was a vision or not.

My interpretation of that verse is that one has to be standing in the actual presence of God in order for that to happen. But a vision is just a similitude of something that is real. It is not real in itself.

I had a vision of myself being ordained into the priesthood of my church. In the vision I saw the person ordaining me, I heard the music being played. Were those people really there? No. Was the music real music in the "vibrations in the air" sense? No. It was a similitude of something that was possibly going to happen.

Same thing, IMO, with Joseph Smith. He had a vision of God and Christ. And since a vision is a similitude, he was not actually standing in the direct presence of God the Father.

(Just out of curiosity, if it wasn't a vision, why is it called the First Vision?)

 

[ByGrace]

It was a vision. That's why it is called the First Vision.

People can see things in visions and withstand them better than seeing them in person.

Sounds more like a peyote hallucination. Maybe in his rabid running from religion to religion he happened in on a vision quest.

 

[ByGrace]

(Just out of curiosity, if it wasn't a vision, why is it called the First Vision?)

Because once again joseph realized he screwed up.

How come this part of the experience is a vision but the first part where satan supposedly seized him and was about to kill him is physical reality????

Does that mean that his vision sent satan away?

 

[pgp_protector]

In Joseph Smiths history, he claims to have seen two personages. One says to the other " this is my son, hear him".

Were these personages actually God and Jesus appearing to JS?

Simple & Quick answer


[updown]




NO
JS did not see God at that time.


Now that he is dead ......

[/updown]

 

[happyinhisgrace]

In Joseph Smiths history, he claims to have seen two personages. One says to the other " this is my son, hear him".

Were these personages actually God and Jesus appearing to JS?

Nope

 

[ByGrace]

Simple & Quick answer


[updown]




NO
JS did not see God at that time.


Now that he is dead ......

[/updown]

AMEN and AMEN!

 

[A New Dawn]

How come this part of the experience is a vision but the first part where satan supposedly seized him and was about to kill him is physical reality????

Because he prayed to God to release him from the clutches of Satan.

1 Peter 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord [are] over the righteous, and his ears [are open] unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord [is] against them that do evil.