Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Yes, it is. So is this - from the other side: https://www.amazon.com/Fire-That-Consumes-Historical-Punishment/dp/1504029348I would recommend the book Hell on Trial: The Case for Eternal Punishment by Robert Peterson. It's good refutation of annihilationism and universalism.
That hasn't been my experience. I don't think hell needs to be the focus of every sermon or mentioned every Sunday. My experience though is that the topic is avoided.I've found the opposite to be true in the southern baptist churches here in central KY. Virtually every message mentions, or is centered on, hellfire.
If you have to scare people into church, you're doing it wrong.
My experience in Seattle (I lived there for 46 years) was that it was rarely discussed, but it was discussed. I called it the "turn or burn" message. I believed it, but had a hard time reconciling it to the personality of my Creator. And the more I studied and prayed, the harder time I had with it.That hasn't been my experience. I don't think hell needs to be the focus of every sermon or mentioned every Sunday. My experience though is that the topic is avoided.
Take this statement from Rick Warren in The Purpose Driven Life. "Unity in the church is so important that the New Testament gives more attention to it than to either heaven or hell." Unity must be based on the right understanding of heaven and hell though.
What might be more important is why they say this, not only what is the correct score.I have heard ministers state that Jesus spoke more of Hell than He did of Heaven.
For more than 50 years, I have heard ministers state that Jesus spoke more of Hell than He did of Heaven. I heard it so consistently, and heard no contradiction of the statement, so I imagined that it must be true.
But after I read through the scriptures for the first time, ... the statement seemed less and less plausible, ... though I continued to hear it. I thought of all of the times Jesus described the kingdom of Heaven in a parable ... and couldn't hardly remember that He ever spoke of Hell as much.
So ... with the advent of electronic texts which could be searched for terms and topics, I did my own analysis. And I found that Jesus spoke of Hell on 60 or so occasions in the scriptures (including desciptive term such as of "outer darkness", "everlasting punishment", etc.), ... BUT, as one might expect, He spoke of Heaven (His home) more than three times as much.
On the one hand, I was relieved, because that accorded much better with my sense of scripture.
But, on the other hand, I wondered HOW it was that such a misfact had been propagated down through the years ... seemingly without challenge ... or honest evaluation by Christian leaders ? Why are Christian leaders so consistent in their proclamation of this mis-truth, ... and why did it require my own lay efforts to uncover the truth ?
Did Jesus speak more about Hell than about Heaven?
I would recommend the book Hell on Trial: The Case for Eternal Punishment by Robert Peterson. It's good refutation of annihilationism and universalism.
He talked about those that do not follow him being destroyed. That is what the whole Gehenna analogy was about. At the time he was speaking you destroyed living things by burning them or letting worms consume them. The analogy is clear. He drives the point home by saying the fire is not quenched. i.e. you will not be "partially destroyed" as often happened in these fires. The lost will be utterly consumed and gone. Just like Sodom.Probably no , because i don't believe that Jesus during his ministry spoke only these words seen in Bible .
But Jesus talked alot about hell compared to other things as seen in Bible .
For more than 50 years, I have heard ministers state that Jesus spoke more of Hell than He did of Heaven. I heard it so consistently, and heard no contradiction of the statement, so I imagined that it must be true.
But after I read through the scriptures for the first time, ... the statement seemed less and less plausible, ... though I continued to hear it. I thought of all of the times Jesus described the kingdom of Heaven in a parable ... and couldn't hardly remember that He ever spoke of Hell as much.
So ... with the advent of electronic texts which could be searched for terms and topics, I did my own analysis. And I found that Jesus spoke of Hell on 60 or so occasions in the scriptures (including desciptive term such as of "outer darkness", "everlasting punishment", etc.), ... BUT, as one might expect, He spoke of Heaven (His home) more than three times as much.
On the one hand, I was relieved, because that accorded much better with my sense of scripture.
But, on the other hand, I wondered HOW it was that such a misfact had been propagated down through the years ... seemingly without challenge ... or honest evaluation by Christian leaders ? Why are Christian leaders so consistent in their proclamation of this mis-truth, ... and why did it require my own lay efforts to uncover the truth ?
Did Jesus speak more about Hell than about Heaven?
Heaven and Hell are often contrasted together rather than isolated.
I did a search for "hell" in the Gospels and Acts and it comes up in 17 verses in the KJV while heaven comes up in 152 verses in the KJV. I think that means that Jesus spoke about heaven much more than he did about hell.For more than 50 years, I have heard ministers state that Jesus spoke more of Hell than He did of Heaven. I heard it so consistently, and heard no contradiction of the statement, so I imagined that it must be true.
But after I read through the scriptures for the first time, ... the statement seemed less and less plausible, ... though I continued to hear it. I thought of all of the times Jesus described the kingdom of Heaven in a parable ... and couldn't hardly remember that He ever spoke of Hell as much.
So ... with the advent of electronic texts which could be searched for terms and topics, I did my own analysis. And I found that Jesus spoke of Hell on 60 or so occasions in the scriptures (including desciptive term such as of "outer darkness", "everlasting punishment", etc.), ... BUT, as one might expect, He spoke of Heaven (His home) more than three times as much.
On the one hand, I was relieved, because that accorded much better with my sense of scripture.
But, on the other hand, I wondered HOW it was that such a misfact had been propagated down through the years ... seemingly without challenge ... or honest evaluation by Christian leaders ? Why are Christian leaders so consistent in their proclamation of this mis-truth, ... and why did it require my own lay efforts to uncover the truth ?
Did Jesus speak more about Hell than about Heaven?
I was reading the Bible looking for a way towards salvation. I read it over and over, reading the Gospels dozens of times. I started to forgot, then had to read over again. I was already aware my sins had caused myself and others suffering.For more than 50 years, I have heard ministers state that Jesus spoke more of Hell than He did of Heaven. I heard it so consistently, and heard no contradiction of the statement, so I imagined that it must be true.
But after I read through the scriptures for the first time, ... the statement seemed less and less plausible, ... though I continued to hear it. I thought of all of the times Jesus described the kingdom of Heaven in a parable ... and couldn't hardly remember that He ever spoke of Hell as much.
So ... with the advent of electronic texts which could be searched for terms and topics, I did my own analysis. And I found that Jesus spoke of Hell on 60 or so occasions in the scriptures (including desciptive term such as of "outer darkness", "everlasting punishment", etc.), ... BUT, as one might expect, He spoke of Heaven (His home) more than three times as much.
On the one hand, I was relieved, because that accorded much better with my sense of scripture.
But, on the other hand, I wondered HOW it was that such a misfact had been propagated down through the years ... seemingly without challenge ... or honest evaluation by Christian leaders ? Why are Christian leaders so consistent in their proclamation of this mis-truth, ... and why did it require my own lay efforts to uncover the truth ?
Did Jesus speak more about Hell than about Heaven?
I don't think so. I think what are contrasted are eternal life and death. John 3:16 comes to mind as does Romans 6:23.
There are many others.
To believe in ECT, one has to redefine the word, "death", and, furthermore, when one fate is juxtaposed against eternal life, one needs to redefine it as "bad eternal life" of some sort.
We seem to be in agreement. I'm not redefining "perish". I completely agree with what you stated above. In fact, the key is that it is made clear that one receives eternal life, vs the other that, obviously, does not. What the other receives is "perish." And yes, a lot of people try to redefine it to mean all sorts of "non-eliminated" meanings.However you wish to redefine "perish" in John 3:16 you may but it is still contrasted with "eternal life". The latter is the product of belief and a rescue from "perish".
We seem to be in agreement. I'm not redefining "perish". I completely agree with what you stated above. In fact, the key is that it is made clear that one receives eternal life, vs the other that, obviously, does not. What the other receives is "perish." And yes, a lot of people try to redefine it to mean all sorts of "non-eliminated" meanings.
If it were not so serious it would be comical.
For more than 50 years, I have heard ministers state that Jesus spoke more of Hell than He did of Heaven. I heard it so consistently, and heard no contradiction of the statement, so I imagined that it must be true.
But after I read through the scriptures for the first time, ... the statement seemed less and less plausible, ... though I continued to hear it. I thought of all of the times Jesus described the kingdom of Heaven in a parable ... and couldn't hardly remember that He ever spoke of Hell as much.
So ... with the advent of electronic texts which could be searched for terms and topics, I did my own analysis. And I found that Jesus spoke of Hell on 60 or so occasions in the scriptures (including desciptive term such as of "outer darkness", "everlasting punishment", etc.), ... BUT, as one might expect, He spoke of Heaven (His home) more than three times as much.
On the one hand, I was relieved, because that accorded much better with my sense of scripture.
But, on the other hand, I wondered HOW it was that such a misfact had been propagated down through the years ... seemingly without challenge ... or honest evaluation by Christian leaders ? Why are Christian leaders so consistent in their proclamation of this mis-truth, ... and why did it require my own lay efforts to uncover the truth ?
Did Jesus speak more about Hell than about Heaven?
Hell is a "catch all" phrase in our English speaking world. For some people, it is synonymous with hades or Sheol, or death. One thing for sure, it's not permanent since it is thrown into the lake of fire.if we dichotomize the biblical presentation of the afterlife there is Heaven and Hell. Now I don't mean Dante's Inferno Hell I mean whatever the Bible is referring to when it speaks of this anthesis to the eternal reward in whatever verbiage it uses. To me this is sufficient enough to label "Hell" to answer the OP without needing to define what Hell is. The word can invoke a lot of images more based on myth then biblical insight but the same can be said for Heaven. If the words Heaven and Hell are too misleading then by all means replace them with X and Y so as to establish what Jesus speaks of more as per the OP, for example "whoever believes in him shall not Y but have X" or "I will build my X, and the gates of Y shall not prevail against it"
Neither is heavenHell is a "catch all" phrase in our English speaking world. For some people, it is synonymous with hades or Sheol, or death. One thing for sure, it's not permanent since it is thrown into the lake of fire.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?