Did Jesus sin by calling himself the savior of the world?

Jeff Saunders · Apr 21, 2025

Sin is missing the mark, its a archery term meaning that you did not hit what you were aiming for. John 12:47 says Jesus came to save the cosmos not judge it, /
Luke 19:10 For the Son of man came to seek and save the lost. John 4:42 Jesus is the Christ the savior of the world.
If you believe that most of the people that God creates will be in torcher forever or annihilated then Jesus did not hit the mark.
Even if one person is not saved in the end that would mean that Jesus did not hit the mark, so would that make Jesus a sinner?

d taylor · Apr 21, 2025

Jeff Saunders said:
Sin is missing the mark, its a archery term meaning that you did not hit what you were aiming for. John 12:47 says Jesus came to save the cosmos not judge it, /
Luke 19:10 For the Son of man came to seek and save the lost. John 4:42 Jesus is the Christ the savior of the world.
If you believe that most of the people that God creates will be in torcher forever or annihilated then Jesus did not hit the mark.
Even if one person is not saved in the end that would mean that Jesus did not hit the mark, so would that make Jesus a sinner?

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Nope because people do not end up in the lake of fire because of sin. Jesus perfectly paid for every sin ever committed by humanity.

Jeff Saunders · Apr 21, 2025

d taylor said:
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Nope because people do not end up in the lake of fire because of sin. Jesus perfectly paid for every sin ever committed by humanity.

Yes he did but that's not what he said , Jesus made the claim that he was the savior of the world. He did not say he was the potential savior or the savior of all who can be saved, but he made the claim that he came to save the world. If not all are saved then he missed the mark.
If people are not in the lake of fire because of sin why are they there?

d taylor · Apr 21, 2025

Jeff Saunders said:
Yes he did but that's not what he said , Jesus made the claim that he was the savior of the world. He did not say he was the potential savior or the savior of all who can be saved, but he made the claim that he came to save the world. If not all are saved then he missed the mark.
If people are not in the lake of fire because of sin why are they there?

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Because their name is not found in the book of life.

And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

They were not in the book of life because they never believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life, The life of God.

https://faithalone.org//wp-content/uploads/2019/11/4_hodges.pdf

https://faithalone.org/blog/unlimited-atonement/

Jermayn · Apr 21, 2025

Jeff Saunders said:
Sin is missing the mark, its a archery term meaning that you did not hit what you were aiming for. John 12:47 says Jesus came to save the cosmos not judge it, /
Luke 19:10 For the Son of man came to seek and save the lost. John 4:42 Jesus is the Christ the savior of the world.
If you believe that most of the people that God creates will be in torcher forever or annihilated then Jesus did not hit the mark.
Even if one person is not saved in the end that would mean that Jesus did not hit the mark, so would that make Jesus a sinner?

Think of it this way, firefighters go to burning buildings to put out fires and save people. If the firefighter pulls a person out of the building and they immediately get up and run back inside, that doesn't mean he didn't accomplish what he came to do, the person just didn't want to accept it.

Clare73 · Apr 21, 2025

Jeff Saunders said:
Sin is missing the mark, its a archery term meaning that you did not hit what you were aiming for. John 12:47 says Jesus came to save the cosmos not judge it, /

"World" can mean "all without distinction" (Gentile as well as Jew), or "all without exception" (everyone).

Jesus' meaning was the first one, not the second one.

Jeff Saunders said:
Luke 19:10 For the Son of man came to seek and save the lost. John 4:42 Jesus is the Christ the savior of the world.
If you believe that most of the people that God creates will be in torcher forever or annihilated then Jesus did not hit the mark.
Even if one person is not saved in the end that would mean that Jesus did not hit the mark, so would that make Jesus a sinner?

JulieB67 · Apr 21, 2025

Jeff Saunders said:
Sin is missing the mark, its a archery term meaning that you did not hit what you were aiming for. John 12:47 says Jesus came to save the cosmos not judge it, /
Luke 19:10 For the Son of man came to seek and save the lost. John 4:42 Jesus is the Christ the savior of the world.
If you believe that most of the people that God creates will be in torcher forever or annihilated then Jesus did not hit the mark.
Even if one person is not saved in the end that would mean that Jesus did not hit the mark, so would that make Jesus a sinner?

We have to look at the context -

John 12:47 "And if any man hear My words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."

We know what his role as our Savior entailed in the first advent and he did that. He came to do that. He was not judging them at that time. Because of his sacrifice, anyone can obtain salvation through him. He's it. But you left out who will do the judging on the last day. Christ's very next words-

John 12:48 "He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

So we see that anyone that rejects Christ and his words and will not receive him will be judged by our Father on the last day.

And repentance -that change of heart and mind is still the key. We see even in Revelation that many still don't repent. For whatever reason, some would still rather follow the world, Satan, etc.

Our Father wants people to come to repentance that's why he's so long suffering. And if what you believe is true, why does he have to be so long suffering if all were saved in the end? This verse would then make no sense.

II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

And we have Christ's letters to the churches in telling them to repent so the Second death does not have power over them or not have their name blotted out etc.

Maria Billingsley · Apr 21, 2025

Jeff Saunders said:
Sin is missing the mark, its a archery term meaning that you did not hit what you were aiming for. John 12:47 says Jesus came to save the cosmos not judge it, /
Luke 19:10 For the Son of man came to seek and save the lost. John 4:42 Jesus is the Christ the savior of the world.
If you believe that most of the people that God creates will be in torcher forever or annihilated then Jesus did not hit the mark.
Even if one person is not saved in the end that would mean that Jesus did not hit the mark, so would that make Jesus a sinner?

I believe you are looking at this the wrong way. Yes, Jesus Christ of Nazareth claimed and is the Savior of the world. There is no other that can or will take the title, " Savior ". That being said, He fully fullfilled His end of the promise, now we need to fulfill our end. Believe and be saved.
Blessings

BelieveItOarKnot · Apr 22, 2025

Jeff Saunders said:
Sin is missing the mark, its a archery term meaning that you did not hit what you were aiming for. John 12:47 says Jesus came to save the cosmos not judge it, /
Luke 19:10 For the Son of man came to seek and save the lost. John 4:42 Jesus is the Christ the savior of the world.
If you believe that most of the people that God creates will be in torcher forever or annihilated then Jesus did not hit the mark.
Even if one person is not saved in the end that would mean that Jesus did not hit the mark, so would that make Jesus a sinner?

The scriptures have some wondrous conundrums. This particular one is oft misread, which is also in line with what you're saying:

John 12:
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

So, IF any man hear His Words and believes not, "I judge him not."

THEN Jesus goes on to say that the Words he has spoken will judge him in the last day.

The hell mongers will quickly point to that statement in order to judge the unbeliever to hell however they forgot what Jesus said. The Words that Jesus spoke will judge the unbeliever. What are those Words?

"I judge him not."

There are your judgment Words: I judge him not.

That's why it's a wondrous conundrum

It's odd that even an unsaved heathen, Pilate, had more sense than to judge Jesus, saying quite honestly:

"I find no fault in this man." Pilate judged NOT. But his judgment was not finding fault.

Paul drags this out into the open and makes in quite plain in 2 Cor. 5:19 that sins are not counted against people, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself.

Not counted. Completely in line with "I judge him not."

The basis of all adverse judgment to the person's is destroyed.

At this point of recognition there is only one remaining avenue to look to for adverse judgments and there is plenty of scriptural evidence to support it. Adverse judgment is for the devil and his messengers, beyond any forms of doubt

So you can have your cake and eat it too on this subject IF it's pointed in the right direction.

Len.M · Apr 22, 2025

Jeff Saunders said:
Sin is missing the mark, its a archery term meaning that you did not hit what you were aiming for. John 12:47 says Jesus came to save the cosmos not judge it, /
Luke 19:10 For the Son of man came to seek and save the lost. John 4:42 Jesus is the Christ the savior of the world.
If you believe that most of the people that God creates will be in torcher forever or annihilated then Jesus did not hit the mark.
Even if one person is not saved in the end that would mean that Jesus did not hit the mark, so would that make Jesus a sinner?

Jesus did not miss the mark, He died for everyone. Salvation by the Grace of God. Salvation is available to everyone who will accept it. It is like a free bus ticket to heaven, but we have to accept that ticket for it to be effective. Accepting means allowing God's Spirit to rule our lives. It's all about Free Choice.

NBB · Apr 22, 2025

Saviour of the world, doesn't mean every person ever is going to get saved, you are taking things too literally, sometimes there are conditions, he is he saviour of the world for those who believe.

Jeff Saunders · Apr 22, 2025

d taylor said:
-

Because their name is not found in the book of life.

And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

They were not in the book of life because they never believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life, The life of God.

https://faithalone.org//wp-content/uploads/2019/11/4_hodges.pdf

https://faithalone.org/blog/unlimited-atonement/

So are you saying that it is not a sin to reject Jesus ?

Jeff Saunders · Apr 22, 2025

Jermayn said:
Think of it this way, firefighters go to burning buildings to put out fires and save people. If the firefighter pulls a person out of the building and they immediately get up and run back inside, that doesn't mean he didn't accomplish what he came to do, the person just didn't want to accept it.

I do not know how firefighters are trained but I has to become a life guard at our summer camp and in the training we were taught that sometimes drowning victims were so afraid that they would fight the very person trying to save them, and they showed us how to overcome their resistance. No lifeguard would just say ok go ahead and drown, rather they would give their life to save another. If human lifeguards are like that do think that they are better than Jesus ? The only person who would not want to be saved is the one who has mental issues and is not thinking with a truly free will, they are deceived and not thinking as a whole normal human, made in Gods image.

Jermayn · Apr 22, 2025

Jeff Saunders said:
I do not know how firefighters are trained but I has to become a life guard at our summer camp and in the training we were taught that sometimes drowning victims were so afraid that they would fight the very person trying to save them, and they showed us how to overcome their resistance. No lifeguard would just say ok go ahead and drown, rather they would give their life to save another. If human lifeguards are like that do think that they are better than Jesus ? The only person who would not want to be saved is the one who has mental issues and is not thinking with a truly free will, they are deceived and not thinking as a whole normal human, made in Gods image.

How can a lifeguard be better when Jesus DID give his life for us?

Jeff Saunders · Apr 22, 2025

Clare73 said:
"World" can mean "all without distinction" (Gentile as well as Jew), or all without exception (everyone).

Jesus' meaning was the first one, not the second one.

I do not know how you came up with that definition for world because no dictionary or any other internet search shows that definition. This sounds like what the Calvinist do , they redefine words so that they can make scripture fit into there system they have created. The Greek word for world is kosmos and the definition that you gave is incorrect. But what does that have to do with God reconciling all things to himself? Did you mean to use the Calvinist definition of " all " as not being all , but all without distinction ?

Clare73 · Apr 22, 2025

Jeff Saunders said:
I do not know how you came up with that definition for world because no dictionary or any other internet search shows that definition.

Scriptural use of words is determined by the context of Scripture, which context is its Jewish background where there was a distinction between Jews and Gentiles.

Therefore, the use of "all" could either include or exclude the Gentiles, depending on the rest of Scripture regarding them, including before that distinction.

Are we invested in making Jesus a sinner?

Jeff Saunders · Apr 22, 2025

JulieB67 said:
We have to look at the context -

John 12:47 "And if any man hear My words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."

We know what his role as our Savior entailed in the first advent and he did that. He came to do that. He was not judging them at that time. Because of his sacrifice, anyone can obtain salvation through him. He's it. But you left out who will do the judging on the last day. Christ's very next words-

John 12:48 "He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

So we see that anyone that rejects Christ and his words and will not receive him will be judged by our Father on the last day.

And repentance -that change of heart and mind is still the key. We see even in Revelation that many still don't repent. For whatever reason, some would still rather follow the world, Satan, etc.

Our Father wants people to come to repentance that's why he's so long suffering. And if what you believe is true, why does he have to be so long suffering if all were saved in the end? This verse would then make no sense.

II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

And we have Christ's letters to the churches in telling them to repent so the Second death does not have power over them or not have their name blotted out etc.

You have the answer in your question- the reason Jesus can say he is reconciling all to him is exactly why he is long suffering, Hebrews 9:27 says "its appointed for man to die once and then the judgement" tradition says that the judgement is heaven or hell, but scripture does not say that. Jesus said " if you deny me before men I will deny before the father" I see this as the judgment , did you follow Jesus or did you follow your own way, if Jesus you get aionion life of the age, if not you get the aionion judgement of the age. Matt 25 tells us that the judgement is kolasin aionion , kolasin judgement is judgement for correction, its was a gardening term for pruning off of unnecessary things so plants could produce more fruit. It is a corrective punishment , if no possibility for correction then your definition is incorrect. Malachi 3:2" But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears ? For he is like a refiners fire and like fuller's soap." 2 Peter 3:9 again you have the answer - God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Is God so weak that he can't get his will done? The result of the judgement is do you want to rule and rein with Jesus as part of his family kingdom or do you want to be a subject of that kingdom?

Jeff Saunders · Apr 22, 2025

Len.M said:
Jesus did not miss the mark, He died for everyone. Salvation by the Grace of God. Salvation is available to everyone who will accept it. It is like a free bus ticket to heaven, but we have to accept that ticket for it to be effective. Accepting means allowing God's Spirit to rule our lives. It's all about Free Choice.

So mans will is stronger than Gods will?

Jeff Saunders · Apr 22, 2025

NBB said:
Saviour of the world, doesn't mean every person ever is going to get saved, you are taking things too literally, sometimes there are conditions, he is he saviour of the world for those who believe.

Yes you must believe . That is why scripture says " Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord" the Greek word for confess Exomologeo - to acknowledge, openly and joyfully, to celebrate, to give praise without reservations. This will happen in the end ad 1 Cor15:28 says " God will be all in all " No place in scripture says that you can't repent after the death of the mortal body. Do those who repent after death lose their inheritance, yes, but they dont burn forever. God is not a monster but a loving Father in whom there is no darkness.

Jeff Saunders · Apr 22, 2025

Clare73 said:
Scriptural use of words is determined by the context of Scripture, which context is its Jewish background where there was a distinction between Jews and Gentiles.

Therefore, the use of "all" could either include or exclude the Gentiles, depending on the rest of Scripture regarding them.

Are we invested in making Jesus a sinner?

So by your definition we can only use "all" after Moses? Before Moses there were no Jews and Gentiles, before Abraham there were only Gentiles. The context dictates how the all should be used. Rom 11:32 " For God has committed them all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all" the same all committed to disobedience is the same all he will give mercy to, it has nothing to do with Jew and Gentile. Jesus is not a sinner but in some traditions that teach most are lost forever, then yes Jesus missed the mark and by definition would be a sinner. Thankfully the Holy Spirit has awakened some to see that when Jesus is called the savior of the world , we understand that as a declaration not a possibility.

Did Jesus sin by calling himself the savior of the world?

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