Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Originally posted by cougan
Is Jesus still reigning on his thrown today?
In whose name do you pray. for instance I might pray Father please forgive me of my sins in Jesus name amen.
I am still trying to see which kind of preterist you are. Most that I have ran across say that ALL prophecy was fullfilled by 70AD.
If we are in the new heaven and new earth then we can not sin because there is no more death nor sorrow nor crying. Last time I checked all these things are still happening.
If your view holds to the rest I have delt with the age mentioned here is the one we are in right now according to your view. We are in our spiritually resurected bodies which did not occur until 70 AD. Therefore if this is your view we can not die anymore nor are we to marry anymore.
acts 24:15 "I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of <I>the </I>dead, both of <I>the </I>just and <I>the </I>unjust.
When did this happen
1cor 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed --
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal <I>must </I>put on immortality.
When did this happen
Romans 14:11 For it is written, <I>As </I>I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
When did this happen
1Thes 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive <I>and </I>remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead <B>in </B>Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive <I>and </I>remain shall be caught up together with them <B>in </B>the clouds to <B>meet </B>the Lord <B>in </B>the <B>air.</B> And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
When did this happen
Mat 25:31 " When the Son of Man comes <B>in </B>His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides <I>his </I>sheep from the goats.
33 "And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:ff
46 "And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
If this already happend there is no need to try and teach or save anyone because according to verse 46 at that time all everyone was either sent to everlasting punishment or to eternal life in heaven.
I am curious do you partake of the Lords Supper? If you do why do you do it?
Originally posted by OldShepherd
I really couldn't care less what seems to you.
Originally posted by OldShepherd
How is it that you think we have more resources than John and Paul's disciples?
Originally posted by OldShepherd
Who are these "bunch of philosphers". Are you referring to the first cent. Christians, many of whom were brutallly tortured and murdered for their faith? Ignatius, John's disciple, for instant.
Originally posted by OldShepherd
"copies of fragments", indeed. How is it then, if all they had were fragments that you have a complete Bible in your hand? Might want to learn a few facts about the Bible and the early church.
Originally posted by EPHRIAM777
Your subject for example is from MATT 24:34...But Jesus wasn't speaking about the people standing around him in ear shot..Jesus was speaking about the "generation that would be alive" when ALL these things mentioned in the verses prior...would be happening...! That isn't 1st century Christians then..but LAST Days people living then..!
Matt 24:34...is the completion of a different subject that Jesus was speaking on...What it would be like in the last days...Prior to his coming...!
Originally posted by EPHRIAM777
Re view the 3 direct questions asked to Jesus by the Apostles in Matt 24:3...! then break down the 3 answers given in their PROPER context..and order they are answered in...!
Uninspired? Irrelevant! Ignatius and Polycarp were disciples of John, was John wrong? Did he teach his disciples wrong? IF Jesus returned in power in the first century, why did John's disciples and Pauls's disciples NOT know it?Originally posted by armothe
And I don't care what the "end times" seemed to persons such as Eusebius, Polycarp, & Ignatius. They are uninspired, period.
Can you PROVE what you think or believe? Do you have any historical information that they did not have a complete Bible? First, the Qumran and Dead Sea scrolls PROVE that during the time of Christ the church had the same O.T. we have today. Scholars have proven that 95% of the N.T. can be reconstructed from the quotes in the early church fathers. All you are doing is regurgitating the false information that your church distributes, accepting it without question.Because I do not believe John and Paul's disciples had a complete copy of the inspiried Word of God - the Bible. You think Barnabas had a copy of LUKE or MICAH?
Nor do I think the majority of those living in the 2nd, or 3rd century had more resources than we do today.
And so were ALL the teachers in whatever church you belong to. Nobody was born a Christian. What does that prove about what they taught after they became believers? Absolutely nothing!Justin Martyr, Theophilous, Tatian, Tertullian were all well-educated (philosophers) heathens at one point. In time they were converted to Christianity - much like us today. Their writings are still uninspired, however.
All the Christians I quoted did! Irrelevant about the canon! They did have the books which were in the canon.Yes, indeed. How many Christians from 100-300AD do you think had a complete copy of the Bible....all inspired 66 books? And here's a fact about Christian History...it took almost 200 years to finalize the canon. On another note, these early Christians also had to deal with uninspired writings as well.
You think you can know more about God's word that John and Paul, and the one's they personally taught? And the church has been wrong for 2000 years and you are going to set it straight. Yeah, right!I maintain that present day christians have more resources, and more accurate information than the early christians did. Hence, we should be coming to more educated conclusions regarding God's Word.
Originally posted by EPHRIAM777
Your subject for example is from MATT 24:34...But Jesus wasn't speaking about the people standing around him in ear shot..Jesus was speaking about the "generation that would be alive" when ALL these things mentioned in the verses prior...would be happening...! That isn't 1st century Christians then..but LAST Days people living then..!
[/B]
Originally posted by The Thadman
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
There's a debate about the meaning of the Aramaic word in question ("ܫܪÜܬÜ", sharvtho): Does it mean "generation"? Or does it mean "family"?
It's an old friendly debate that judge and I've had for the past year or so (or has it already been a 1 1/2 to 2 years?).
Judge is probably one of the most knowledgeable people I've met online concerning Preterism, and I'm sure he'd be glad to list his views about the translation debate.
Shlomo! (Peace!)
OldShepherd said this in Post #91
Uninspired? Irrelevant! Ignatius and Polycarp were disciples of John, was John wrong? Did he teach his disciples wrong? IF Jesus returned in power in the first century, why did John's disciples and Pauls's disciples NOT know it?
OldShepherd said this in Post #91 Can you PROVE what you think or believe? Do you have any historical information that they did not have a complete Bible? First, the Qumran and Dead Sea scrolls PROVE that during the time of Christ the church had the same O.T. we have today. Scholars have proven that 95% of the N.T. can be reconstructed from the quotes in the early church fathers. All you are doing is regurgitating the false information that your church distributes, accepting it without question.
OldShepherd said this in Post #91
And so were ALL the teachers in whatever church you belong to. Nobody was born a Christian. What does that prove about what they taught after they became believers? Absolutely nothing!
OldShepherd said this in Post #91
All the Christians I quoted did! Irrelevant about the canon! They did have the books which were in the canon.
OldShepherd said this in Post #91
You think you can know more about God's word that John and Paul, and the one's they personally taught? And the church has been wrong for 2000 years and you are going to set it straight. Yeah, right!
According to Isaiah 9:7, yes.
There will be no end to the increase of His (Jesus') government and peace.
In direct conflict with this scripture, You seem to think His government will one day end.
Why?
And when pressed, most will agree that some prophesies, by their very nature, have no consumation point, but are in a continual state of ongoing fulfillment forever. (Isaiah 9:7 for example)
However, as a preterist I afirm the past fulfillment of all eschatological prophesies.
If we are in the new heaven and new earth then we can not sin because there is no more death nor sorrow nor crying. Last time I checked all these things are still happening.
If there is no sin in the New H&E, How exactly do you explain the very real presence of Murderers, adulters, harlot mongers and various other "SINNERS" in and on the New H&E (Revelation 22:15).
Also Isaiah 65:17-23 affirms the very real presence of Birth, Ageing, Death and Sinners in the New H&E.
According to you, they can't be there, but acording to scripture, they are there.
I'll stick with scripture.
Preterists, like futurists, differ with eachother in certain aspects, so i can only speak for myself here.
Before AD 70 all who died in the HOPE of Christ wento to Sheol or Hades to await the resurrection into the presence of God. Since AD70, all who die in Christ are immediatly clothed in our resurrection bodies and ushered directly into heaven and so shall we ever be with the lord.
As the scripture teaches:
'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.' (Rev 14:13)
1cor 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed --
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
When did this happen
AD70
The "Change" was positional in nature. BEfore AD 70 all went to hades upon physical death. Since AD70 believers were changed positionally, covenantally, in the sight of God, no longer to be sent to a "Holding tank" awaiting redemption, but truly redeemed.
1Thes 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
When did this happen
As this scripture teaches, the living were not to be caught up before, or at the same time as the dead, but at a "later" time. Scripture does not teach a "simultainous" raising of the living and dead.
The resurrection of the dead is just that. The resurrection of the dead. nowhere does scripture teach a resurrection of the living. you have to be "dead" to be resurrected.
The dead were resurrected out of Hades into Gods presence in 70AD, THEN (at a later time) We alive are caught up when we shed this earthly tent and are clothed in our "house made without hands, eternal in the heavens".
There is no more Hades, when we physically die we are either clothed in our resurrection bodies that "God Gives us" (1Corinthians 15:38), or we are judged and cast in to the lake of fire where we remain, forever suffering in our sin.
Contrary to your asertion, the "everlasting gospel" which sole purpose is to call sinners to salvation, has no "use by" or "expiration" date. It is EVERLASTING.
Even in the New H&E, those inside the New Jeruslem call out to all outside the city who thirst to "come! drink the water of life freely". (Rev. 22)
You say calling out to the lost ceases in the New H&E, scripture says it continues.
I'll stick with scripture
I am curious do you partake of the Lords Supper? If you do why do you do it?
Yes I do.
But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that Day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. (Matt. 26:29; Mk. 14:25; Lk. 22:16-18)
Since A.D. 70, Christ takes the Lord's Supper with us in a new way, i.e., with new meaning. The Lord's Supper is no longer a somber remembrance, but it is a celebration feast.
It is the "Wedding supper of the Lamb"
Clearly, Jesus taught that the timing of His Parousia would be in the first century.
His disciples also believed He would come again in the first century.
Clearly, those were the last days. If we are in the last days, I would have to ask, the last days of what?
John the baptist speaking to the Jews of his day:
Matthew 3:2, "...Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven has drawn near." Luke 3:7,9, "Then said he to the multitude..O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath about to come? And now also the axe is laid every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire."
Jesus speaking to His twelve Apostles (telling them to preach to Israel)
Matthew 10:7, "...preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven has drawn near. " Matthew 10:23, "...In no wise will ye have completed the cities of Israel, until the Son of man be come."
Notice Jesus told these 12 apostles that they would not have completed preaching to first-century Israel when the Son of man comes, which was during the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
Why would Jesus tell them they would not have completed preaching to first century Israel until the Son of man comes?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?