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No offence, but those Christians would be wrong. A paradox is a paradox is a paradox, eternally untrue. Even gods can't break logic.Weep not: behold, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, [which] hath prevailed And I beheld a Lamb as it had been slain Revelation 5:5
One thing is simultaneously a conquering lion, and a mortally wounded lamb. Christianity has contradictions and paradoxes throughout it. Many are very beautiful, and Christians believe on a higher level of reality, theyre also true.
No offence, but those Christians would be wrong. A paradox is a paradox is a paradox, eternally untrue. Even gods can't break logic.
No, it would not. Three things being the same thing is not three different modes at three different times.Again, this would imply Modalism, which I do not think is the concept you are trying to get across.
A paradox does not mean something cannot be true. It means there is something unexplainable. Wow...I'm not sure about all paradoxes being contradictions, but all contradictions are paradoxes. If a belief system can be shown to lead to a logical paradox (for example, by highlighting internal inconsistency, the belief system has been disproven: it cannot be true.
Ahh... The old ice, water, steam explanation...Ummm maybe that would be valid if we were talking about just math here. 100% water is also 100% ice, and can also be 100% gas, and 100% liquid- all the while being 100% water. Just like steam is 100% gas and 100% water, the Spirit is 100% Spirit and 100% God, just like Jesus is 100% man and 100% God, just like the Father is 100% Father and 100% God.
No offence, but those Christians would be wrong. A paradox is a paradox is a paradox, eternally untrue. Even gods can't break logic.
Did Jesus say he is a God?
There is an epidemic in the world today. People are not open to the possibility of being in error. They hold their beliefs within a clenched fist, unwilling and therefore unable to see possible errors in their respected ideaologies.It is not until individuals are willing to place their beliefs on the choping block of critical scrutiny and rigorous examination that error can be hacked up and tossed in the fire of falsehood, and truth can be given the opportunity to prove and demonstrate it's ability to withstand the fiercest stike. As people of God, we should be the ones who set the bar high for this type of radical intellectual integrity.HI! Welcome to CHRISTIAN apologetics. We discuss things from a Christian POV here. So no, I am not going to consider that the Christian bit is not part of apologetics. Perhaps you missed the change in the enforcement?
Your analogy begs to differ: the H[sub]2[/sub]O molecule is one thing being in three different modes (gaseous vapour, liquid water, and solid ice) at three different times. Hence why your analogy implies a Modalist belief, which I did not think you had, and hence why I said your analogy was flawed: it implied the wrong thing.No, it would not. Three things being the same thing is not three different modes at three different times.
You're wrong, but I'm not interested in getting into a semantic debate with you.A paradox does not mean something cannot be true. It means there is something unexplainable. Wow...
Logic is logic is logic. Even God cannot square the circle.Your logic is not Gods logic.
That doesn't mean the "true nature of God" is paradoxical.Gods holds all of creation in existance with His divine Word, and he is master of all that exists. No human mind can fully grasp the true nature of God.
In this world, I agree with you. But Christianity claims to be telling us things of another world. Perhaps some aspects of quantum mechanics might not have been thought possible once upon a time.
That's the beauty of logic: it does give us absolute knowledge. If something has been proven, we can say with absolute certainty that it is true.If and when we find out what Reality is like, there may be surprises. And from a practical standpoint, I dont think its wise to rule things out unless we absolutely know we can rule them out. No offence, but I dont think you have sufficient information to rule such a thing out.
Logic is logic is logic. Even God cannot square the circle.....
You keep talking as it there's two forms of logic: ours and God's. What makes you think this? Is it just a way to save your theology?Yout human mind cannot fathom God's logic.
Which says nothing about the point in hand.Man's wisdom of today is always foolishness tomorrow. God's infinite wisdom is everlasting.
Two ad hominems, two appeals to ridicule, and a rather blatant strawman. Any other fallacies you like to throw in?Besides, its hard to take seriously the opinion of a 20 year old pagan. You've been on this earth 20 years, and all of a sudden you can fully understand the ways of the Almighty? <<snort>>
Quantum mechanics doesn't lead to a logical paradox, merely counter-intuitive conclusions. If something has been proven to be false, it will always be false, so long as those premises are held.
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That's the beauty of logic: it does give us absolute knowledge. If something has been proven, we can say with absolute certainty that it is true.
Which is why proof is so powerful: if something has been proven to be true, it is true, and we can say this 100% certainty. Note that true proof is different from proof beyond all reasonable doubt (which is the case for, say, atomic theory, and the theory of common descent).That is totally dependent on the method used to quantify the results. It does not take into consideration any advancement in the methods we use to test or further knowledge gained.
An arguement could be made that if further investigation or advancement in knowledge shows that what we held to be true is not, then it was never a truth to begin with.
An expectation that can easily be disproven by way of contradiction: "Are there absolute truths?"Which can only lead one to except that there is no absolute truth, only truth as we perceive it in the now.
Yout human mind cannot fathom God's logic. Man's wisdom of today is always foolishness tomorrow. God's infinite wisdom is everlasting.
And since when are you a people of God? You don't set the bar very high, I'm afraid.There is an epidemic in the world today. People are not open to the possibility of being in error. They hold their beliefs within a clenched fist, unwilling and therefore unable to see possible errors in their respected ideaologies.It is not until individuals are willing to place their beliefs on the choping block of critical scrutiny and rigorous examination that error can be hacked up and tossed in the fire of falsehood, and truth can be given the opportunity to prove and demonstrate it's ability to withstand the fiercest stike. As people of God, we should be the ones who set the bar high for this type of radical intellectual integrity.
Sorry, but your speech does not change the name of the thread.As genuine truth seekers, we need need not be afraid of placing to the test or allowing them to be callengened. If our beliefs are well founded, they will be reinforced and strenthened. Conversely, if our beliefs are shown to be weak and faulty, in so far as truth is our objective, we will be thankful to see the errors in our thinking, thus freeing us to seach afresh for what is true, right, and of God. When the world sees a people striving to be responsible thinkers, open to critique, reasonable, reverent and painfully honest, they will be more willing to lend their ears to consider the kingdom we proclaim and the Messiah we follow.
Hey, imagine that, three things with three roles being separate from each other.... yet still God. Just like water, steam, ice... yet they are still water.Ahh... The old ice, water, steam explanation...
Have you ever seen Ice, water and steam in there various states all together in a bottle?
They are separate, are the not, Just like the Father and the Son.
Try again!
Who says you don't have a beaker with ice, water, and steam sitting on the same table? You assume too much about the analogy to make that stretch.Your analogy begs to differ: the H[sub]2[/sub]O molecule is one thing being in three different modes (gaseous vapour, liquid water, and solid ice) at three different times.
Hence why you are again making assumptions.Hence why your analogy implies a Modalist belief, which I did not think you had, and hence why I said your analogy was flawed: it implied the wrong thing.
Um, if all three premises lead to a conclusion and one premise denies the possibility of B=C, then one cannot reach the conclusion that B=C using all three premises (and the conclusion is dependent on all three premises).You're wrong, but I'm not interested in getting into a semantic debate with you.
Two of your premises ("A = B" and "A = C") lead to a conclusion ("B = C"), which contradicts your third premise ("B ≠ C"). Since they cannot both be true ("Either p or ¬p"), one of your premises must be false (in general, the conclusion itself might be specious, but this is not the case here).
In other words, your theology is internally inconsistent, and cannot be true.
Really? What if Jesus in that passage was one of those illusion things where one angle you look and see Jesus, one angle you see a lion, and another you see a lamb? What then?No offence, but those Christians would be wrong. A paradox is a paradox is a paradox, eternally untrue. Even gods can't break logic.
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