Did Jesus believe in a literal Noah's Ark and Flood?

[vitodabona]

The Bible is recorded history ... you better check your facts. It is history as to how the world began and how God choose to redeem all of creation through His one son Jesus Christ.
It also records by prophecy when and how the world as we know it will end and how his kingdom will be established.

Your beliefs are not verifiable objective history; Jesus has to be shoe horned into these “amazing”, vague prophecies that he supposedly filled. No one saw him after he died, but his follower which is highly suspect, for they had the most to gain and lose by his resurrection.

It is also backed up by witnesses such as Josephus, Origin, Aristotle and so on. You better check your facts in the future before you make a blanket statement like that.

Josephus history was a third person account he merely states that there is someone named Jesus and some people followed him. Not a witness.

Aristotle died in 322 B.C, Not a witness. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle

Origen was born around 182 AD, Not a witness. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen

Who needs to check there facts?

 

[JohnR7]

...

This is beginning to look more like a General Apologetics issue. Your arguement seems to be against God and the Bible. That does not belong on a science board, because science says they can neither deny God or provide evidence for God. Science has not falsified anything in the Bible. Just where is your scientific evidence that would show us where science has falsified the Bible in any way, shape or form?

 

[Amaziah]

Yes they were not there when Christ was crucified, died and buried and rose again but Paul, Peter and Mary were. What do you do with them and the 5000 people that witnessed Jesus after His resurrection? Were you there? I do not think so, so how can you discount their eyewitness except chalk it up to conspiracy.

Have you given the Bible an honest chance to speak to you?

 

[xXThePrimeDirectiveXx]

Apostle: Hey, I’ve been following the son of God around for a couple of years now.
Random Person: Wow! Where is he now?
Apostle: dead.
Random Person: oh (backs away slowly).

LOL!

 

[Stinker]

The Bible was written 3500 years ago. It is not the first written history, but it gives us more insight into the people 3500 years ago, then anything else. [JohnR7 post#44]
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Well, the Jewish Old Testament is about 2500 years old.

The writers writing after having been under the influence of Babylon and Pesia.

 

[JohnR7]

Well, the Jewish Old Testament is about 2500 years old.

God gave the entire plan of salvation to Moses. The books that Moses is given credit for go back 3500 years.

 

[Amaziah]

Since you are new hear, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that like most first time Creationists viewers you have never done any form of in depth study as to what evolution actually is, what evidence is out there to support it, or the vast amounts of research and work that has been done in Geology, Cosmology, Biology, Astronomy, and other discplines that is in direct conflict with a literal Bible and the bulk of Creationism.

If you are actually here to learn about the reality of our world, and not just to plug your ears and preach the same old PRATTS, read thru the CRe/Evo archives thread stickied at the top of this forum. There is a wealth of information contained within that will provide endless material for you to examine and think about.

Actually I have done some research and it is impossible for a Christian to support macroevolution because it crosses the God-limitation of God creating everything thing according to kind (Genesis 1:12). Macroevolution supports the crossing of the barriers of kind (ie. a fish can become an ape that can become human.). If evolution from fish to platapus to ape to man is capable and is true why are there not transitioning evidence in the world? Half-ape half-men, half-fish half-bird?

A christian on the other hand can support microevolution which is adaptation within kind (ie. A rabbit changing color of hair in winter compared to spring-summer-fall.).

Thanks for your fatherly talk and advise ... but I am okay, somewhat studied and somewhat informed.

I will stick to my Bible as it is the only reliable form of absolute redemptive and revelatory truth and morality that we can base our lives on. Science is a tool, not an end in itself.

What "stuff" is nonsense in Evidence That Demands a Verdict?

Blessings

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

I hope you all understand that John R7 and Amaziah are talking about very different "floods". Like most OEC John considers the flood a massive local event though he still seems to confuse global flooding of low lying areas at the end of the last ice age with a global flood. Amaziah believes in the long falsified worldwide flood of the YEC.

One thing that is clear about the Bible is that it is open to widely different interpretations. It is clear from the science that the YEC version of Genesis is not consistent reality as shown by geology, paleontology, biogeography, biodiversity, archeology and cosmology just to name a few.

The Frumious Bandersnatch

 

[Amaziah]

I hope you all understand that John R7 and Amaziah are talking about very different "floods". Like most OEC John considers the flood a massive local event though he still seems to confuse global flooding of low lying areas at the end of the last ice age with a global flood. Amaziah believes in the long falsified worldwide flood of the YEC.

One thing that is clear about the Bible is that it is open to widely different interpretations. It is clear from the science that the YEC version of Genesis is not consistent reality as shown by geology, paleontology, biogeography, biodiversity, archeology and cosmology just to name a few.

The Frumious Bandersnatch

Stupid question but what is YEC?

What constituted the world back then? This is a question that I will search for in the Scriptures.

 

[Amaziah]

Young Earth Creation?

 

[Edx]

Young Earth Creation?

yes.

 

[Amaziah]

So who or what was the basis of the beginning of everything? The earth, human beings, animals, etc...?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Yes they were not there when Christ was crucified, died and buried and rose again but Paul, Peter and Mary were.

So is this recorded in the Gospel of Peter? Or the Gospel of Mary? Paul was not there when Christ was crucified.

What do you do with them and the 5000 people that witnessed Jesus after His resurrection?

What 5000 people?

Were you there? I do not think so, so how can you discount their eyewitness except chalk it up to conspiracy.

Where is all this eywitness testimony from the eyewitnesses recorded?

Have you given the Bible an honest chance to speak to you?

Yes. I was raised a Methodist and studied it quite thoroughly as a youth and have read much of it again since then. I happen to believe the Jesus was a real person though there is actually very little evidence of that outside the New Testament which was not written during his lifetime. Belief in the resurrection requires faith. There is no actual evidence of it outside the stories in the Bible which can hardly be considered objective evidence. Belief that the Genesis account as interpreted by YECs is literally true requires denial of much of modern science. It also requires believing that God is a bungling mass murderer who repented of his botched creation and could only manage to "fix" it by drowning every man, woman, child, infant and animal on earth with only a few expections who were on a big boat.

Have you given science an honest chance to speak to you?

The Frumious Bandersnatch

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

So who or what was the basis of the beginning of everything? The earth, human beings, animals, etc...?

The beginning of everything was probably about 14 billion years ago in what we call the big bang, possibly when God said "Let there be light".

The Frumious Bandersnatch

 

[Jase]

Actually I have done some research and it is impossible for a Christian to support macroevolution because it crosses the God-limitation of God creating everything thing according to kind (Genesis 1:12).

It is impossible? So in other words, you are claiming that every single Christian who accepts Evolution, isn't actually a Christian, and only those in the Bible Belt of the U.S. who reject evolution based on strawman arguments are? Microevolution and Macroevolution work on the exact same principles. They are fundamentally no different. And no one even knows what a "kind" is.

Macroevolution supports the crossing of the barriers of kind (ie. a fish can become an ape that can become human.). If evolution from fish to platapus to ape to man is capable and is true why are there not transitioning evidence in the world? Half-ape half-men, half-fish half-bird?

Where does evolution claim a fish became an ape which became a man?

A christian on the other hand can support microevolution which is adaptation within kind (ie. A rabbit changing color of hair in winter compared to spring-summer-fall.).

There is no such distinction between Micro and Macro. They work on the same principles. You are arguing a strawman.

I will stick to my Bible as it is the only reliable form of absolute redemptive and revelatory truth and morality that we can base our lives on. Science is a tool, not an end in itself.

A tool to which you will easily accept if it doesn't disagree with your preconceived worldview, but reject if it does - despite there being no difference in how those theories you disagree with are proven, compared to those you do agree with.

 

[Jase]

So who or what was the basis of the beginning of everything? The earth, human beings, animals, etc...?

God is the creator. Theistic evolutionists are not denying this. What we are denying is that He did it in the way literalists interpret Genesis to mean.

 

[JohnR7]

The beginning of everything was probably about 14 billion years ago

Do you really think you can look at the sky and tell us how old the universe is?

So the universe is 14 billion years old. 1.4 billion years ago the atmosphere began to forum and we have a greenhouse effect that puts and end to the ice ball that the earth was at the time. 140 million years ago mammals and flowing plants first appear. The first humanoid shows up 14 million years ago. 1.4 million years ago they start seeing fire at their camp sites. 140,000 years ago they say our common ancestor lived in Africa. 14,000 years ago was the end of the ice age and the beginning of the modern age we now live in. 1400 years ago the world became christian. 14 days is equal to two weeks. The amount of time it has taken God to create and now restore this world.

Now, what does the Bible say?
Day one (14 billion years) let there be light.
Day two (1.4 billion years) let there be a firmament.
Day three (140,000 million years) Dry land: plants and dinosaurs.
Day four (14 million years) First humanoid.
Day five (1.4 million years)First fire and tools.
Day six (140,000 years) Common ancestor of modern man.
Day seven (14,000 years) End of ice age, beginning of the modern era.
Day eight (1,400 years) World converts to become Christian.
140 years ago President Lincoln and the end of slavery.
14 years ago President Clinton elected.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Do you really think you can look at the sky and tell us how old the universe is?

I can't but astronomers can make a good estimate. Was there any point to the rest of your post?

The Frumious Bandersnatch

 

[notto]

Day three (140,000 million years) Dry land: plants and dinosaurs.

You might want to check your decimal places. Regardless, this is a nice bit of shoe horning here. Can you provide some specifics on this and your sources for the start of plants and dinosaurs? This date doesn't seem to agree with any reality of what we know. Looks more like you just pulled it out of thin air to try to make some weird math point.

Are you sure it wasn't 200,000 million years ago?

 

[JohnR7]

This date doesn't seem to agree with any reality of what we know.

There is nothing engraved in stone here. I just took the dates and ran a google search to see what happened on that date. As you noticed I moved the decimal point one place each time. I knew from the Hubble that the universe is considered to be 14 billion years old. More and more people are beginning to accept 140,000 years as the common ancestor of all people alive today. The rest I just filled in from whatever was available on that date.