Did God want all that rain to fall on Houston?

[ForsakenGirl]

Ah, lets see, if an Almighty God wanted people to communicate with him he could either dump tons of water on them or...

..he could get a toll free number.

...or he could tweet.

...or he could get an email address.

But if he dumps 50" of rain on people to get them to talk to him, that seems a little odd.

Well.. not many celebrities reply to every fan mail so why should God? I can already see how annoying it would be anyways.
Even the most moral people i know complain to God sometimes...
Or...

perhaps He likes to be mysterious and out of reach..

 

[doubtingmerle]

Well.. not many celebrities reply to every fan mail so why should God?

Ah, but you said that maybe God might send hurricanes because otherwise people might forget to pray. If God is like a busy celebrity, and doesn't have time to listen anyway, why send hurricanes to make them pray to him? Why not just set up an automatic system to limit the force of hurricanes, and then take a vacation away from all those incessant requests to stop hurricanes (or heal headaches)?

I can already see how annoying it would be anyways. Even the most moral people i know complain to God sometimes...

Wait, what? Prayer is annoying to God?

Or...

perhaps He likes to be mysterious and out of reach..

I see. What is the difference between a God who is mysterious and out of reach (and doesn't stop hurricanes) and a God who does not exist? That is basically the same thing, yes?

 

[RDKirk]

And you don't think that is a little odd?

What would you think of a parent who turned a firehouse on his child's dorm room because that child might forget to call home if he was always happy?

If one wants people to talk to him, I think there are better ways to do it.

What does "want" mean?

Refusing to prevent the consequences of an adult child's folly does not mean the parent "wanted" it.

 

[JackRT]

If your answer is yes, why did God want all this rain?

If your answer is no, why didn't God stop it?

None of the listed answers pertain to my point of view. God affects us only on the spiritual level. Any effect God has on the physical world is by and through us. We can affect the world positively through acts of compassion and even bravery in assisting the victims. We can also affect it negatively through acts like looting, price gouging and ignoring sound scientific advice about flood and/or disaster planning. I am reminded of one Houston city official who said a year or two ago "These scientists have an agenda about protecting the environment and ignoring common sense."

 

[doubtingmerle]

What does "want" mean?

Refusing to prevent the consequences of an adult child's folly does not mean the parent "wanted" it.

Understood. If a boy is caught speeding his mother would probably want him to pay the fine. But her preference would be that the son wasn't speeding. The status of having driven too fast can not be changed when the cop stop him. Being in the state where her son is given a ticket, then at that point the mother would want her son to pay the fine.

My question has to do with the city of Houston as it existed last Friday. You cannot change the history of who did what before then. In that state of affairs last Friday, did you want the city to get hit with all that rain? Did God want it to get hit with all that rain?

 

[RDKirk]

Understood. If a boy is caught speeding his mother would probably want him to pay the fine. But her preference would be that the son wasn't speeding. The status of having driven too fast can not be changed when the cop stop him. Being in the state where her son is given a ticket, then at that point the mother would want her son to pay the fine.

My question has to do with the city of Houston as it existed last Friday. You cannot change the history of who did what before then. In that state of affairs last Friday, did you want the city to get hit with all that rain? Did God want it to get hit with all that rain?

The adult child undertook his folly long ago. The Houston circumstance is the consequence of that folly from two directions:

1. From the religious direction, it's a continuing consequence of the original Fall.
2. From a secular direction, the human devastation is a result of not paying attention to lessons of the past and warnings of the future--for the sake of capitalism--to keep people better out of harm's way.

 

[doubtingmerle]

None of the listed answers pertain to my point of view. God affects us only on the spiritual level. Any effect God has on the physical world is by and through us. We can affect the world positively through acts of compassion and even bravery in assisting the victims. We can also affect it negatively through acts like looting, price gouging and ignoring sound scientific advice about flood and/or disaster planning. I am reminded of one Houston city official who said a year or two ago "These scientists have an agenda about protecting the environment and ignoring common sense."

Ah, your God is not constantly tweaking the dials of nature.

Why not? Is he hands off because he is not able to change nature, or is he hands off because he doesn't want to?

If he isn't able to change a hurricane, it seems he must be weak.

If he easily could have dialed down the hurricane, but didn't bother, it seems he must not be compassionate.

 

[RDKirk]

If he easily could have dialed down the hurricane, but didn't bother, it seems he must not be compassionate.

A parent is not uncompassionate if he refuses to protect an adult child from the consequences of his own folly.

 

[doubtingmerle]

The adult child undertook his folly long ago. The Houston circumstance is the consequence of that folly from two directions:

1. From the religious direction, it's a continuing consequence of the original Fall.

Ah, one of the consequences of the fall is that Houston will get doused with water in 2017.

I understand you think God did not want the fall, but after the fall occurred, then your God wants the consequences of the fall to occur, yes? So it appears that, given the state of affairs last Friday, your God wanted this hurricane to happen.

Why should the people of Houston be punished for "the fall"? They weren't the one's who chose the fall.

2. From a secular direction, the human devastation is a result of not paying attention to lessons of the past and warnings of the future--for the sake of capitalism--to keep people better out of harm's way.

OK humans are responsible for where they build and how their infrastructure is designed. Got it.

Given the fact that Houstonians built the city the way they did, was it good to dump all that water on them, knowing the city was not built to take that much? Or would it been better to dial the hurricane back, if one was able to do so?

 

[RDKirk]

Ah, one of the consequences of the fall is that Houston will get doused with water in 2017.

I understand you think God did not want the fall, but after the fall occurred, then your God wants the consequences of the fall to occur, yes? So it appears that, given the state of affairs last Friday, your God wanted this hurricane to happen.

Why should the people of Houston be punished for "the fall"? They weren't the one's who chose the fall.



OK humans are responsible for where they build and how their infrastructure is designed. Got it.

Given the fact that Houstonians built the city the way they did, was it good to dump all that water on them, knowing the city was not built to take that much? Or would it been better to dial the hurricane back, if one was able to do so?

A parent is not uncompassionate if he refuses to protect an adult child from the consequences of his own folly.

I keep saying this, and you keep responding as though you think God should continually rescue men from all their continuous follies with no indication that we've learned from them.

 

[doubtingmerle]

A parent is not uncompassionate if he refuses to protect an adult child from the consequences of his own folly.

Depends.

If an adult child inadvertently walks out in front of his mother's car when she is driving down the highway, I think most moms would hit the brakes. It would not occur to them to run their child over and let him experience the consequences of his folly.

 

[doubtingmerle]

you keep responding as though you think God should continually rescue men from all their continuous follies with no indication that we've learned from them.

Actually no, I am responding as though a mother would be criticized who sprayed her kids with a full blast from a fire hose and blamed the kids for not being adequately prepared.

 

[RDKirk]

Actually no, I am responding as though a mother would be criticized who sprayed her kids with a full blast from a fire hose and blamed the kids for not being adequately prepared.

But that's not the case here even by Christian theology. You might want to review how and why Adam and Eve were ejected from the Garden of Eden.

 

[doubtingmerle]

you keep responding as though you think God should continually rescue men from all their continuous follies with no indication that we've learned from them.

OK, so these people are stuck in the rain because of "continuous follies"? And God should not be expected to limit the rain to save them from their follies?

Here are some people that were rescued from "their follies". Is it a good thing to rescue people from "their follies"?

 

[doubtingmerle]

But that's not the case here even by Christian theology. You might want to review how and why Adam and Eve were ejected from the Garden of Eden.

Ah, so you agree that a mother should not spray children with the full blast of a firehose and blame them for being unprepared.

But it is OK for God to spray people with days of rain and then blame them for not being adequately prepared? Is that what you are saying?

 

[RDKirk]

But it is OK for God to spray people with days of rain and then blame them for not being adequately prepared? Is that what you are saying?

Why weren't they prepared?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Why weren't they prepared?

I don't know.

Are you prepared for every possible event that could happen to you?

Should we let you fend for yourself if you are ever caught in a natural disaster, or would you appreciate some help if needed?

 

[RDKirk]

I don't know.

Are you prepared for every possible event that could happen to you?

Should we let you fend for yourself if you are ever caught in a natural disaster, or would you appreciate some help if needed?

Alas, the consequences of the Fall affect all of us. And we've still not learned the lesson, so the education continues.

Who is the "we" you speak of? I don't expect you to do anything for me, however my congregation does have a scriptural mandate to help me, and every other congregation has a scriptural mandate to help each other.

 

[durangodawood]

A parent is not uncompassionate if he refuses to protect an adult child from the consequences of his own folly.

The parent is rather cold if the consequence is likely death.

 

[doubtingmerle]

I don't expect you to do anything for me, however my congregation does have a scriptural mandate to help me, and every other congregation has a scriptural mandate to help each other.

Ah, you are part of a community where everyone has the duty to help each other. That is good.

That is not what I was referring to. I was not talking about helping out of duty. I was talking about the spontaneous help that came from Texas. Boat owners committed their time and money to rescuing people they had never met. That is what it means to be human. When we see people suffer or in danger, we want the suffering to stop.

I was wandering if your God thought the same thing as (fallen) humans thought when they saw all that suffering. Did your God want the suffering to stop? Did he want the rain to stop? And apparently your answer is "No." God, as you describe him, did not have the level of compassion that the "fallen" humans of Texas had.