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Did that get answered? .. I'd like to know what the answer is to that question ..Well, I wanted originally to know if all Calvinists believe God was responsible for the Fall,
That seems like a good thing to exit quickly!but now I am just refuting the ideas.
Some solid points in the above. However, corporate election in Romans 8 is untenable for the following reasons. First there is absolutely no indication foreknowledge is operative to us choosing God. That is reading into the text what is not evident. Perhaps you have some supporting evidence for his leap to this conclusion? Verse 28 clearly indicates those who are called according to God's purpose.I like Fr. Lawrence's explanation so I will show it:
This understanding of proginosko also informs St. Paul’s meaning in Romans 8:29, where after saying that God causes everything to work together to help us in our salvation (v. 28) he writes, that those “whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He might be the first-born among many brethren”. The word translated “predestined” is the Greek proorizo/ προοριζω, literally to pre-appoint, orizo meaning “to appoint, to order, to designate”. The word orizo is used of a prophet ordering a meal (in Didache 11:9), and of God appointing Jesus Christ to be the Saviour (in Acts 17:31), and of Him designating Jesus as the Son of God by raising Him from the dead (in Romans 1:4). The word proorizo therefore means that God pre-appointed those whom He foreknew would believe in Jesus to be conformed to Christ’s image. The emphasis in not on individual’s choice for or against Christ, but on corporate destiny; it does not answer the question, “Who gets saved and how?”, but rather, “What is God planning to do for those whom He foreknew would believe?” The answer: their destiny is to be conformed to the image of Christ, so that all that Christ is by nature He shares with them by grace. Thus Christ is but the first-born of many brethren; all of God’s people are pre-appointed to be like Jesus.
This again would be fine but does not preclude the very fact Paul says the elect are predestined according to God's purpose and then when hearing and believing the Gospel are sealed.Paul says the same thing in Ephesians 1:4-5. Paul begins his doxology for God’s work in Christ by blessing Him because He has given us every spiritual blessing through our union with Christ in the heavenlies (v. 1). Unlike the rest of the world, Christians enjoyed heavenly and transcendent blessedness through their incorporation into Christ. This, St. Paul goes on to say, is the outworking of God’s eternal plan, for “He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before Him”. In Christ and through our union with Him God “predestined us (Greek proorizo) to adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself” (v. 4-5). Note: the content of this predestination and pre-appointing is not our inclusion or exclusion in salvation, but what such a salvation consists of— namely, being “holy and blameless before Him”, our “adoption to sonship”. As God’s sons, we are thus brothers of Christ, and He is therefore “the first among many brethren”.
I'm still wondering if the next OP will be "Did God predestine the terrible ending to Avengers Infinity War?"Did that get answered? .. I'd like to know what the answer is to that question ..
Still not answering. Now I think you’re just deflecting.No. We can't save ourselves.
Look everyone!!! A straw man!!!!He didn't create robots.
Why? Does His character not hate sin?No, but it would go against his character of a God who loves mankind.
So God learns and then runs with it?Of course they did. God knew Judas would dip the sop with Him, you thought that meant that He possessed Judas and practiced mind control to make him do it!!? Ha. No. It was probably more like having seen the future.
John says: “God is Love”, so would that mean God’s Love is the greatest?As I have pointed out. This remains your own teaching, not Bible teaching!
That being said. God is the God of living but not the God of the dead. If you want the dead to be saved legitimately, Jesus would have to be crucified twice (this won't happen, that's why God is not the God of the dead). If on the other hand, you would like the dead to be saved illegitimately, it only means that God is not a just God to fail to stick to His own Law and covenants. If so, God's realm is not a lawful realm.
God isn't a Shepherd who loves both the sheep and wolves alike, simply because they cant' co-exist!
God isn't one who doesn't distinguish the weeds from the wheat. He only keeps the wheat by burning the weeds.
This is the Bible teaching! Trying your best to twist them in the name of love won't help. Emphasizing that you have more love than what God says who He is remains just another form of pride. While the underlying message is that "if God is who He said that He is then He won't be your God". There's where your faith stands!
For those who believe in God predestine events, was the Fall one of them?
I'll boil it down. The arrest, torture of Jesus Christ....was This God's predetermined plan?
If a predetermined plan then what will was exercised by those involved?
Sometimes the issue is not clear. Maybe try more cohesion than the one liner tactic.Still not answering. Now I think you’re just deflecting.
I would think in that instance it was mostly John that learned who the rat was. Jesus knew Judas would be the traitor. That does not mean Jesus locked Judas in a barn and water boarded him till he agreed to betray Him!So God learns and then runs with it?
I’ll try one last time. Does man deserve to be saved? Why or why not?Sometimes the issue is not clear. Maybe try more cohesion than the one liner tactic.
How did Jesus know? Judas could have changed his mind at any moment, right?I would think in that instance it was mostly John that learned who the rat was. Jesus knew Judas would be the traitor. That does not mean Jesus locked Judas in a barn and water boarded him till he agreed to betray Him!
God foreknew the Fall, but did not predestine it, deeming it worthy to create, for His good ultimate purposes, in spite of that fact. He could not have predestined evil, and all the atrocious results that stemmed from that first evil of disobedience. Adam had free will, and was given sufficient knowledge to exercise that will properly. He chose to abuse it instead. IOW, God is not a liar; when He commanded Adam not to eat of the forbidden fruit, He did not want Adam to eat of the forbidden fruit.For those who believe in God predestine events, was the Fall one of them?
Joe, the average decent guy/next door neighbor of no professed faith, deserves eternal torment? And you would assent and support that? Why?I’ll try one last time. Does man deserve to be saved? Why or why not?
Was the cross an evil act?God foreknew the Fall, but did not predestine it, deeming it worthy to create, for His good purposes, in spite of that fact. He could not have predestination evil, or and all the atrocious results of that first evil of disobedience. Adam had free will, and was given sufficient knowledge to exercise that will properly. He chose to abuse it instead. IOW, God is not a liar; when He commanded Adam not to eat of the forbidden fruit, He did not want Adam to eat of the forbidden fruit.
How does that answer my question. Looks more like a deflection to me.Joe, the average decent guy/next door neighbor of no professed faith, deserves eternal torment? And you would assent and support that? Why?
Did God plan it?By man, yes, perpetrated against God.
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