Did God predestine the Fall?

[Not David]

For those who believe in God predestine events, was the Fall one of them?

 

[DZoolander]

If you believe that God is omniscient, knowing past, present and future with 100% certainty, then yes, the fall was predestined. Everything is.

 

[redleghunter]

For those who believe in God predestine events, was the Fall one of them?

As in Foreknowledge of the Fall?

 

[Hammster]

For those who believe in God predestine events, was the Fall one of them?

He ordained it.

 

[Not David]

If you believe that God is omniscient, knowing past, present and future with 100% certainty, then yes, the fall was predestined. Everything is.

No that he is omniscient, but that it was his plan.

 

[Not David]

As in Foreknowledge of the Fall?

No foreknowledge, but making it happen.

 

[Not David]

He ordained it.

Can you explain?

 

[Hammster]

Can you explain?

He wanted it to happen, so He orchestrated it. He’s in control of everything.

 

[redleghunter]

No foreknowledge, but making it happen.

Thanks for clearing that up. On other threads people define the Biblical use of Predestine as God has Foreknowledge and based on seeing what people freely choose in their fallen state He then Predestines them. Is this your view too so I can address the OP on your understanding of the relationship of the two terms?

 

[Not David]

He wanted it to happen, so He orchestrated it. He’s in control of everything.

How is man's fault then if it was part of God's plan?

 

[Hammster]

How is man's fault then if it was part of God's plan?

Because man sinned.

Let me ask you, could God have stopped it?

 

[Not David]

Thanks for clearing that up. On other threads people define the Biblical use of Predestine as God has Foreknowledge and based on seeing what people freely choose in their fallen state He then Predestines them. Is this your view too so I can address the OP on your understanding of the relationship of the two terms?

I believe man has free will and God always tries to attract man to him.

 

[Hammster]

I believe man has free will and God always tries to attract man to him.

Why does He need to do that if all He has to do is change a heart?

 

[Not David]

Because man sinned.

Let me ask you, could God have stopped it?

It would had violated man's free will.

 

[Hammster]

It would had violated man's free will.

Wait...what?

 

[Not David]

Why does He need to do that if all He has to do is change a heart?

Because God doesn't want to force anyone to love him.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Because God doesn't want to force anyone to love him.

An oft-repeated line by many a Christian but never the Bible.

What causes the will of a man? Himself? What caused the will that caused itself? This is one of the few matters wherein one can claim that a cause is its own cause, yet fail to see the logical farce. God is the only cause without a prior cause. Anything else to which we ascribe this condition is a false god.

 

[DZoolander]

Absolute foreknowledge negates free will, IMHO.

If you have free will, that means there's uncertainty. It could be this, or it could be that.

If what you will choose is known with 100% certainty prior to you choosing it, then there was no true choice in the matter.

 

[Hammster]

Because God doesn't want to force anyone to love him.

How does changing a heart force someone to love Him?

 

[redleghunter]

I believe man has free will and God always tries to attract man to him.

I agree. I also believe God has His purpose and will as well.

Adam and Eve were created with the ability to obey or disobey. They were told not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

With that in mind we are told:

Ephesians 1: ESV

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. (ESV)

And chose us here is select deliberately:

1586 eklégomai (from 1537 /ek, "out of" and 3004 /légō, "speaking to a conclusion") – properly, to select (choose) out of, by a highly deliberate choice (i.e. real heart-preference) with a definite outcome (as with the destination of divine selection for salvation).

Looks like before Adam and Eve and the world was created, YHWH had a plan of Redemption. Given that, the disobedience of Adam and Eve was part of that plan.

And yet God did not shove the “apple” in their mouth and Adam and Eve acted according to what nature they had. Which I might add I hear folks say we are somehow restored to before we decide to choose God. Strange as they failed in whatever nature they had. But I digress.

I’m sure the “Calvinistic monster God” straw man is around the corner so I will state the point clearly.

The Apostle Paul tells us God had a plan for salvation before creation. Then God created Adam and Eve. Y’all do the math if you want but that’s what we call what God purposes happens. Aka God’s Sovereignty in His own creation.

Is that fair? Everyone needs to explore that carefully. Sure I can see a Christian just learning the faith and exploring asking that question but a mature well read in Scriptures and walking in the faith? Not a chance.

We should be mindful what the Apostle tells us in Romans 11.

Romans 11: ESV

33Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!

34“For who has known the mind of the Lord,
or who has been his counselor?”
35“Or who has given a gift to him
that he might be repaid?”

36For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen. (ESV)