Did God make a mistake?

Lilly Owl

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Not reading through all the pages here but my opinion responds to the OP itself.
Maybe it's like some people say and God and the Devil are playing Chess.

When God knows everything eternally how can the present state of the world be a surprise by the creator that let's everything happen according to his own devices that set it all up in the first place?
 
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timbo3

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The moment that God thought of creating an earth with people on it, did he think it through entirely, not leaving any chance for something to go wrong?

At what point in time that Jehovah God wanted for others besides himself to have life is not established in the Bible. For one thing, time was not yet established. However, the Bible does provide some information concerning his creation. At Genesis 1:1, it says: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

As when "the beginning" began cannot be ascertained. On the other hand, Genesis 1:1 outlined that God purposed the earth as special and unique, specifically created for man and later called his "footstool".(Isa 66:1; Matt 5:35) God designated the heavens and the earth and man at the same time, knowing full well how he would bring this about.

And of Jesus Christ as the "firstborn of all creation" (Col 1:15), at Proverbs 8 as wisdom personified, it is as if he is talking, saying: "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago."(Prov 8:22) Of the earth, he goes on to say that "when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land....then I became to be beside him (Jehovah God) as a master worker."(Prov 8:27, 30)

Hence, the one that later came to be called Jesus Christ was the very first of God's creative handiwork, and was his "master worker" when the foundation of the earth was laid, which was at the same time as when he began creating "the heavens".

Thus, the earth can be considered as old as as the rest of the universe. (With the earth having a solid iron core [estimated as 80%] along with nickel, and surrounded by liquified iron with other components, in which that which became the earth had to go through a series of changes over billions of years, leaving an iron-nickel core, Fe, Ni core, that produces a strong magnetic field)

Genesis 1:2 says: "Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters." Over a period of six "creative" days (with each one being several thousand years long), Jehovah prepared the earth for his final creative act, that of man.(Gen 1)

After having made man, God looked upon all creative handiwork and said "it was very good".(Gen 1:31) No flaws anywhere. But with the making of living persons and having free choice, there is always the risk of anyone causing trouble. Hence, Jehovah provided a test by means of "the tree of knowledge of good and bad" in the middle of the garden.(Gen 2:17)

Though Jehovah has the power of foreknowledge, he chose not use it here, but allowed events to play themselves out. In fact, he is not omniscient in the manner that the churches as well as others feel, that he knows every detail of everything. God use his foreknowledge selectively, at his choosing and in only in certain circumstances.
 
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fatboys

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At what point in time that Jehovah God wanted for others besides himself to have life is not established in the Bible. For one thing, time was not yet established. However, the Bible does provide some information concerning his creation. At Genesis 1:1, it says: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

As when "the beginning" began cannot be ascertained. On the other hand, Genesis 1:1 outlined that God purposed the earth as special and unique, specifically created for man and later called his "footstool".(Isa 66:1; Matt 5:35) God designated the heavens and the earth and man at the same time, knowing full well how he would bring this about.

And of Jesus Christ as the "firstborn of all creation" (Col 1:15), at Proverbs 8 as wisdom personified, it is as if he is talking, saying: "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago."(Prov 8:22) Of the earth, he goes on to say that "when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land....then I became to be beside him (Jehovah God) as a master worker."(Prov 8:27, 30)

Hence, the one that later came to be called Jesus Christ was the very first of God's creative handiwork, and was his "master worker" when the foundation of the earth was laid, which was at the same time as when he began creating "the heavens".

Thus, the earth can be considered as old as as the rest of the universe. (With the earth having a solid iron core [estimated as 80%] along with nickel, and surrounded by liquified iron with other components, in which that which became the earth had to go through a series of changes over billions of years, leaving an iron-nickel core, Fe, Ni core, that produces a strong magnetic field)

Genesis 1:2 says: "Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters." Over a period of six "creative" days (with each one being several thousand years long), Jehovah prepared the earth for his final creative act, that of man.(Gen 1)

After having made man, God looked upon all creative handiwork and said "it was very good".(Gen 1:31) No flaws anywhere. But with the making of living persons and having free choice, there is always the risk of anyone causing trouble. Hence, Jehovah provided a test by means of "the tree of knowledge of good and bad" in the middle of the garden.(Gen 2:17)

Though Jehovah has the power of foreknowledge, he chose not use it here, but allowed events to play themselves out. In fact, he is not omniscient in the manner that the churches as well as others feel, that he knows every detail of everything. God use his foreknowledge selectively, at his choosing and in only in certain circumstances.

Huh? God uses his foreknowledge selectively? Where is this found in scriptures? And why would he selectively choose not to know Adam and Eve were going to disobey? If his intent was to have them remain in the Garden and populate the earth, don't you think he would have his finger on the pulse of his creations?
 
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timbo3

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Huh? God uses his foreknowledge selectively? Where is this found in scriptures? And why would he selectively choose not to know Adam and Eve were going to disobey? If his intent was to have them remain in the Garden and populate the earth, don't you think he would have his finger on the pulse of his creations?

That Jehovah God uses his foreknowledge selectively can be seen that he provided a test for Adam and Eve with the "tree of knowledge of good and bad."(Gen 2:17) Had he known in advance that they would sin, would violate his command, there would have been no need for a test.

In fact, had he known that they would rebel in advance, then by his foreknowledge he would have set in motion all the oppression, the corruption, the hate that has since come into existence. If a person knew in advance that a product that he designed would cause deaths, but went ahead anyway to produce it, would he be guilty ? Yes.

For example, before putting the Pinto car into production in 1971, Ford Motor Company was well aware that its Pinto was a potential death trap, but chose not to fix the problems. Ford knew from its crash tests that the Pinto's design rendered it liable to explode in a rear-end collisions as low as 20 miles per hour. Ford did nothing for 5 years, with President Lee Iacocca disregarding safety and saying "Safety doesn't sell", and with the company estimating that the unsafe fuel tank would cause 180 deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned vehicles at a cost of $49.5 million dollars, against a safe repair per vehicle of $11 but that would cost the company an estimated $137.5 million dollars. And it happened, death did occur in several instances from ruptured gas tanks caused by rear end collisions. Eventually, Ford Motor Company was taken to court and had to pay a $128 million fine in February 1978 involving a personal injury lawsuit.

If a weight lifter can bench press 400 pounds readily, does he need to carry around 400 pounds everywhere he goes ? Only in certain circumstances do they lift this amount of weight. Likewise of our Creator, Jehovah. Though having the capability to look into the future, he does this with discretion, only as needed to fulfill his purpose. He has used his foreknowledge with regard to the line of world powers that directly affects his people, as at Daniel 7, 8 and 11. This he has also done in Revelation, laying out certain events and situations that impacts his people.

At Genesis 18, Jehovah says concerning wicked Sodom and Gomorrah: "The cry of complaint about Sodom and Gomorrah, yes, it is loud, and their sin, yes, it is very heavy. I am quite determined to go down that I may see whether they act altogether according to the outcry over it that has come to me, and, if not, I can get to know it."(Gen 18:20, 21) Had God known in advance concerning Sodom and Gomorrah, would he have needed to inspect the situation ? No. Hence, he uses his power of foreknowledge only in select situations, to inform his "servants, the prophets" of future events.(Amos 3:7)

In the Garden of Eden, Jehovah God allowed both Adam and Eve free will, but kept "his finger on the pulse of his creations". One afternoon, he sent an angel to inspect how things were going, but it was noticed that Adam was hiding, unlike before when Jehovah in effect talked to him "face to face". Adam now admitted that "your voice I heard in the garden, but I was afraid because I was naked and so I hid myself."

Now Jehovah knew something was wrong, asking him: "Who told you were naked ? From the tree from which I commanded you not to eat have you eaten ?" Adam owned up to his violation, but "passed the buck" to Eve.(Gen 3:8-13) Only then, did God know that Adam and Eve had broken his command regarding the "tree of knowledge of good and bad." He chose to allow matters to play out, to see how they would respond when tested, not aware that one of his spirit sons would start a mutiny against his sovereignty.
 
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inthec

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I agree that God does not make mistakes. So if God does not make mistakes why are we not still in the Garden?

Strange thing, isnt it? To think in terms of God knowing what will happen before it happens, but ultimately we still get choices. I think the reason we have been placed on the field is probably larger than we know. The LDS answers may be partly correct, but I think there could also be other answers to the question that would be just as reasonable. What we know for certain is the 12 tribes from this creation will form the foundation of the next , man will be a caretaker once again, not only of his own world, but over an entire structure of laws and elements.
 
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Clare73

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I apologized. So not like me. I guess my psychiatrist is right I do have deep seated anger issues. And frustration. Sorry.
It's good to get to the bottom of them.

In the faith,
Clare
 
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Clare73

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The moment that God thought of creating an earth with people on it, did he think it through entirely, not leaving any chance for something to go wrong?
God ordained the outcome of all things from the beginning.

The earth is right on schedule to be where God has ordained it to be,
and its outcome will be as it is ordained, when it was ordained to occur.

In the faith,
Clare
 
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fatboys

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God ordained the outcome of all things from the beginning.

The earth is right on schedule to be where God has ordained it to be,
and its outcome will be as it is ordained, when it was ordained to occur.

In the faith,
Clare

How about mankind, are they where they were ordained to be?
 
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fatboys

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We are not in the garden, because Adam sinned.

Separation:
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Isaiah 59:2

Reconciliation:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Ephesians 2:13-18

So this is God's plan for us from before the creation?
 
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fatboys

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God did not make a mistake but the sons of God did not comprehend God and instead listened to a lie. however now we have a better personality and more individuality due to our fall which was necessary so that we may not all be equal. thus it gave us more freedom and now we are more like God than ever. and we greatly rejoice that we choose God over what seems to be the reality, which is nothing more than a lie. now we will learn what it is to be a mother and to obtain the best husband that there is, the only one that matters to us, he saved us from everything. and further more we went through much hell and blindness but we found the light of our life and we even were tortured to death and counted our physical body as not worthy compared to what we see after death. but not all of us went through this, which further creates our individuality and unity.

So was this God's plan for mankind then?
 
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fatboys

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Not reading through all the pages here but my opinion responds to the OP itself.
Maybe it's like some people say and God and the Devil are playing Chess.

When God knows everything eternally how can the present state of the world be a surprise by the creator that let's everything happen according to his own devices that set it all up in the first place?

So God wanted this to turn out the way it is?
 
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fatboys

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That Jehovah God uses his foreknowledge selectively can be seen that he provided a test for Adam and Eve with the "tree of knowledge of good and bad."(Gen 2:17) Had he known in advance that they would sin, would violate his command, there would have been no need for a test.

In fact, had he known that they would rebel in advance, then by his foreknowledge he would have set in motion all the oppression, the corruption, the hate that has since come into existence. If a person knew in advance that a product that he designed would cause deaths, but went ahead anyway to produce it, would he be guilty ? Yes.

For example, before putting the Pinto car into production in 1971, Ford Motor Company was well aware that its Pinto was a potential death trap, but chose not to fix the problems. Ford knew from its crash tests that the Pinto's design rendered it liable to explode in a rear-end collisions as low as 20 miles per hour. Ford did nothing for 5 years, with President Lee Iacocca disregarding safety and saying "Safety doesn't sell", and with the company estimating that the unsafe fuel tank would cause 180 deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned vehicles at a cost of $49.5 million dollars, against a safe repair per vehicle of $11 but that would cost the company an estimated $137.5 million dollars. And it happened, death did occur in several instances from ruptured gas tanks caused by rear end collisions. Eventually, Ford Motor Company was taken to court and had to pay a $128 million fine in February 1978 involving a personal injury lawsuit.

If a weight lifter can bench press 400 pounds readily, does he need to carry around 400 pounds everywhere he goes ? Only in certain circumstances do they lift this amount of weight. Likewise of our Creator, Jehovah. Though having the capability to look into the future, he does this with discretion, only as needed to fulfill his purpose. He has used his foreknowledge with regard to the line of world powers that directly affects his people, as at Daniel 7, 8 and 11. This he has also done in Revelation, laying out certain events and situations that impacts his people.

At Genesis 18, Jehovah says concerning wicked Sodom and Gomorrah: "The cry of complaint about Sodom and Gomorrah, yes, it is loud, and their sin, yes, it is very heavy. I am quite determined to go down that I may see whether they act altogether according to the outcry over it that has come to me, and, if not, I can get to know it."(Gen 18:20, 21) Had God known in advance concerning Sodom and Gomorrah, would he have needed to inspect the situation ? No. Hence, he uses his power of foreknowledge only in select situations, to inform his "servants, the prophets" of future events.(Amos 3:7)

In the Garden of Eden, Jehovah God allowed both Adam and Eve free will, but kept "his finger on the pulse of his creations". One afternoon, he sent an angel to inspect how things were going, but it was noticed that Adam was hiding, unlike before when Jehovah in effect talked to him "face to face". Adam now admitted that "your voice I heard in the garden, but I was afraid because I was naked and so I hid myself."

Now Jehovah knew something was wrong, asking him: "Who told you were naked ? From the tree from which I commanded you not to eat have you eaten ?" Adam owned up to his violation, but "passed the buck" to Eve.(Gen 3:8-13) Only then, did God know that Adam and Eve had broken his command regarding the "tree of knowledge of good and bad." He chose to allow matters to play out, to see how they would respond when tested, not aware that one of his spirit sons would start a mutiny against his sovereignty.

Would not a all knowing God already know what was going to happen? What was the test for? And if he already knew the outcome, why create them? If his intent was to have a perfect earth, then either he is not all knowing, or it was his plan. By some stretch of the imagination someone may believe that God chose not to know is literally silly. If this is what you believe then you can apply that to anything that does not agree with God's plan. That would make God less than God.
 
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fatboys

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Yes, everything is where it was ordained to be (2Tim 3:1-8).

In the faith,
Clare

So if I am understanding you correctly, God provided this earth and then created us to live on it and gave us to laws which one was disobeyed, and Adam and Eve were driven from the Garden. You believe that this was all ordained of God and was his plan from the beginning of creation?
 
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Clare73

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So if I am understanding you correctly, God provided this earth and then created us to live on it and gave us to laws which one was disobeyed, and Adam and Eve were driven from the Garden.
You believe that this was all ordained of God and was his plan from the beginning of creation?
Yes, that's what sovereignty means.

"He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his hand, or say to him, 'What have you done?' " (Dan 4:35)

In the faith,
Clare
 
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fatboys

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Yes, that's what sovereignty means.

"He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his hand, or say to him, 'What have you done?' " (Dan 4:35)

In the faith,
Clare

Sorry if I sound confused. But let me see if I understand this. You believe that it was God's intention for Adam and Eve to partake of the fruit of Knowledge?
 
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