Did God create the earth formless?

[Diamond72]

There was light on the earth before the sun was created

"God said, 'Let there be lights in the vault of the sky. '" We are talking about light "in the vault of the sky." I was an electrician for the local ballet company and studied lighting in theater, so I understand how the "vault of the sky" filters light. Light can be filtered, and light can be reflected. If you want to know what the earth was like before we had an atmosphere (vault in the sky) then go to the moon. There is no atmosphere there.


The Moon, with its lack of atmosphere, presents a stark and unique environment when compared to Earth. Here's an overview of what the Moon is like in the absence of an atmosphere:

1. No Air or Weather​

• The Moon has no air or weather system. This means there is no wind, no clouds, and no rain. The surface of the Moon is dry and dusty, and because there's no atmosphere to scatter or diffuse sunlight, the lighting is extremely harsh and unfiltered.
• Without an atmosphere to moderate temperatures, the Moon's surface experiences extreme temperature fluctuations between day and night. In the daytime, the temperature can rise to around 127°C (260°F), while at night it can plunge to -173°C (-280°F).

2. No Sound​

• Sound requires a medium (such as air, water, or solid material) to travel through. Since there’s no air on the Moon, there can be no sound. If you were standing on the surface, you wouldn’t hear anything—no wind, no atmosphere to carry noise, and no sound from distant events.

3. Harsh, Unfiltered Sunlight​

• On the Moon, sunlight is not scattered or softened by an atmosphere. This means that the sunlight is extremely intense in areas that are exposed to it, with shadows being very sharp and well-defined. There's no blue sky or atmospheric scattering like we see on Earth. The sky above the Moon is always black—even during the lunar day.
• The lack of atmosphere also means there’s no diffusion of light, so the contrast between light and shadow is extreme, creating very bright regions and very dark ones.

4. Extreme Temperatures​

• Because the Moon has no atmosphere to retain heat, it experiences extreme temperature variations. During the day, when the Sun is shining directly on the surface, temperatures can soar to about 127°C (260°F), making it extremely hot. At night, the Moon's surface can cool dramatically, dropping to -173°C (-280°F) due to the lack of any atmosphere to retain heat.
• These extreme temperature swings would make it incredibly difficult for any Earthly organisms to survive without specialized protection.

5. No Protection from Cosmic Radiation​

• The Moon’s lack of atmosphere means it has no magnetic field or ozone layer to protect it from harmful cosmic radiation, including ultraviolet rays (UV), solar radiation, and cosmic rays. This makes the Moon a hazardous place for unprotected human life, as the radiation levels are much higher than those experienced on Earth, where our atmosphere and magnetic field provide a protective shield.
• The surface of the Moon is constantly bombarded by micrometeorites and radiation from the Sun, as there’s no atmosphere to shield it or burn up incoming objects.

6. No Erosion or Weathering​

• Without wind, rain, or other weather-related processes, the Moon's surface doesn't experience erosion in the way Earth does. This means that the surface features of the Moon—such as craters, mountains, and basins—remain preserved for much longer periods of time compared to Earth, where erosion constantly reshapes landscapes.
• The Moon’s surface is covered with a fine, dusty material called regolith, created by the slow impact of meteoroids over billions of years. The lack of weathering means these features, like craters, have remained relatively unchanged since they were formed.

7. A Black Sky​

• Because the Moon has no atmosphere, the sky remains pitch black, even during the lunar day. There’s no scattering of sunlight like on Earth, so the sky appears dark. When you look up from the Moon’s surface, you'll see a deep black sky with a clear view of distant stars and the Sun, especially without the interference of atmospheric particles or light pollution.

8. Lack of Air Pressure​

• The Moon has no atmospheric pressure. This means that any liquid (like water) would immediately boil away in the vacuum of space, even at low temperatures. Without air pressure, things like liquids and gases behave differently than they do on Earth.
• Human survival would require a pressurized suit or habitat to prevent bodily fluids from boiling (due to the lack of pressure) and to protect from the vacuum.

Summary:​

In short, the Moon’s lack of atmosphere means:

• There is no air or weather, leading to an extreme, unfiltered environment with no sound.
• Light is harsh and direct, with no diffusion or scattering.
• Temperature fluctuations are extreme, from scorching heat to freezing cold.
• There is no protection from radiation or micrometeorites.
• Surface features remain well-preserved because there's no wind or rain to cause erosion.

The Moon’s environment is inhospitable to life as we know it, requiring humans to take significant precautions (like pressurized spacesuits and shelters) if they were to live or explore there. The absence of an atmosphere also leads to a stark, desolate landscape that has fascinated scientists and space enthusiasts alike.

 

[Platte]

"God said, 'Let there be lights in the vault of the sky. '" We are talking about light "in the vault of the sky." I was an electrician for the local ballet company and studied lighting in theater, so I understand how the "vault of the sky" filters light. Light can be filtered, and light can be reflected. If you want to know what the earth was like before we had an atmosphere (vault in the sky) then go to the moon. There is no atmosphere there.


The Moon, with its lack of atmosphere, presents a stark and unique environment when compared to Earth. Here's an overview of what the Moon is like in the absence of an atmosphere:

1. No Air or Weather​

• The Moon has no air or weather system. This means there is no wind, no clouds, and no rain. The surface of the Moon is dry and dusty, and because there's no atmosphere to scatter or diffuse sunlight, the lighting is extremely harsh and unfiltered.
• Without an atmosphere to moderate temperatures, the Moon's surface experiences extreme temperature fluctuations between day and night. In the daytime, the temperature can rise to around 127°C (260°F), while at night it can plunge to -173°C (-280°F).

2. No Sound​

• Sound requires a medium (such as air, water, or solid material) to travel through. Since there’s no air on the Moon, there can be no sound. If you were standing on the surface, you wouldn’t hear anything—no wind, no atmosphere to carry noise, and no sound from distant events.

3. Harsh, Unfiltered Sunlight​

• On the Moon, sunlight is not scattered or softened by an atmosphere. This means that the sunlight is extremely intense in areas that are exposed to it, with shadows being very sharp and well-defined. There's no blue sky or atmospheric scattering like we see on Earth. The sky above the Moon is always black—even during the lunar day.
• The lack of atmosphere also means there’s no diffusion of light, so the contrast between light and shadow is extreme, creating very bright regions and very dark ones.

4. Extreme Temperatures​

• Because the Moon has no atmosphere to retain heat, it experiences extreme temperature variations. During the day, when the Sun is shining directly on the surface, temperatures can soar to about 127°C (260°F), making it extremely hot. At night, the Moon's surface can cool dramatically, dropping to -173°C (-280°F) due to the lack of any atmosphere to retain heat.
• These extreme temperature swings would make it incredibly difficult for any Earthly organisms to survive without specialized protection.

5. No Protection from Cosmic Radiation​

• The Moon’s lack of atmosphere means it has no magnetic field or ozone layer to protect it from harmful cosmic radiation, including ultraviolet rays (UV), solar radiation, and cosmic rays. This makes the Moon a hazardous place for unprotected human life, as the radiation levels are much higher than those experienced on Earth, where our atmosphere and magnetic field provide a protective shield.
• The surface of the Moon is constantly bombarded by micrometeorites and radiation from the Sun, as there’s no atmosphere to shield it or burn up incoming objects.

6. No Erosion or Weathering​

• Without wind, rain, or other weather-related processes, the Moon's surface doesn't experience erosion in the way Earth does. This means that the surface features of the Moon—such as craters, mountains, and basins—remain preserved for much longer periods of time compared to Earth, where erosion constantly reshapes landscapes.
• The Moon’s surface is covered with a fine, dusty material called regolith, created by the slow impact of meteoroids over billions of years. The lack of weathering means these features, like craters, have remained relatively unchanged since they were formed.

7. A Black Sky​

• Because the Moon has no atmosphere, the sky remains pitch black, even during the lunar day. There’s no scattering of sunlight like on Earth, so the sky appears dark. When you look up from the Moon’s surface, you'll see a deep black sky with a clear view of distant stars and the Sun, especially without the interference of atmospheric particles or light pollution.

8. Lack of Air Pressure​

• The Moon has no atmospheric pressure. This means that any liquid (like water) would immediately boil away in the vacuum of space, even at low temperatures. Without air pressure, things like liquids and gases behave differently than they do on Earth.
• Human survival would require a pressurized suit or habitat to prevent bodily fluids from boiling (due to the lack of pressure) and to protect from the vacuum.

Summary:​

In short, the Moon’s lack of atmosphere means:

• There is no air or weather, leading to an extreme, unfiltered environment with no sound.
• Light is harsh and direct, with no diffusion or scattering.
• Temperature fluctuations are extreme, from scorching heat to freezing cold.
• There is no protection from radiation or micrometeorites.
• Surface features remain well-preserved because there's no wind or rain to cause erosion.

The Moon’s environment is inhospitable to life as we know it, requiring humans to take significant precautions (like pressurized spacesuits and shelters) if they were to live or explore there. The absence of an atmosphere also leads to a stark, desolate landscape that has fascinated scientists and space enthusiasts alike.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Genesis 1:3

There was light on the earth before the moon and before the sun.

Considering the earth was completely surrounded with water - we know your description of the earth is not acurate (comparing it to the moon). The Bible does not say the earth had no atmosphere when it was created. Based on the fact that God created earth as a water planet I think its pretty fair to guess it did.

 

[Diamond72]

The Bible does not say the earth had no atmosphere when it was created.

You're correct that the Bible doesn't specifically mention the presence or absence of an atmosphere when the Earth was created. The Genesis creation account in the Bible focuses more on the sequence of creation events and the introduction of elements of the world, rather than offering a detailed description of the planet's physical characteristics.

My brother did his dissertation for his PhD on a pre school readiness test. My dad actually administered that test to his patients. The question they asked was: what color is the sky, what color is grass. If they did not know that the sky is blue and grass is green they were not ready to begin school.

When you ask why is the sky blue and grass green.

• Elementary School (Grades 3-5): Basic, simplified explanations using scattering and chlorophyll as the main ideas. Focus on color reflection and basic light behavior.
• Middle School (Grades 6-8): More detailed explanations about light wavelengths and photosynthesis, with a deeper understanding of the light spectrum and how scattering works.
• High School (Grades 9-12): Detailed explanations of Rayleigh scattering (for the sky) and the biochemical role of chlorophyll in photosynthesis, along with an understanding of electromagnetic radiation, light absorption, and spectra.

In summary, elementary school students can grasp the basic ideas behind these phenomena, while middle school and high school students can understand the scientific principles with more depth.

By the time our sunday school students graduate they need to be able to function at level of understanding so they can enter into the sanctuary and learn at an adult level. We had one sunday school student that was hired as an associate pastor. But it did not really work out because he did not have a level of maturity to fully function at that level. But he could preach a good sermon at a level of understanding that most people can understand.

My son was actually taking classes at four different colleges when he was in High School. The city gave him up to $30,000 a year for the classes. They only pay if you pass. If you do not pass they do not pay. The city is setting up a program now where they are able to graduate from high school with a two year associate degree. This is starting to become very common in the health care profession to get your education while you are still in High School.

As my son would says. If you can not function at a college level, then you can always get a job at McDonalds. It all depends on your level of problem solving skills. Although as a computer engineer he is developing programs to do the work that was being done by the people with an associate degree.

There are always jobs for the people who can function at a problem solving level to get the job done.

 

[Platte]

You're correct that the Bible doesn't specifically mention the presence or absence of an atmosphere when the Earth was created. The Genesis creation account in the Bible focuses more on the sequence of creation events and the introduction of elements of the world, rather than offering a detailed description of the planet's physical characteristics.

My brother did his dissertation for his PhD on a pre school readiness test. My dad actually administered that test to his patients. The question they asked was: what color is the sky, what color is grass. If they did not know that the sky is blue and grass is green they were not ready to begin school.

When you ask why is the sky blue and grass green.

• Elementary School (Grades 3-5): Basic, simplified explanations using scattering and chlorophyll as the main ideas. Focus on color reflection and basic light behavior.
• Middle School (Grades 6-8): More detailed explanations about light wavelengths and photosynthesis, with a deeper understanding of the light spectrum and how scattering works.
• High School (Grades 9-12): Detailed explanations of Rayleigh scattering (for the sky) and the biochemical role of chlorophyll in photosynthesis, along with an understanding of electromagnetic radiation, light absorption, and spectra.

In summary, elementary school students can grasp the basic ideas behind these phenomena, while middle school and high school students can understand the scientific principles with more depth.

By the time our sunday school students graduate they need to be able to function at level of understanding so they can enter into the sanctuary and learn at an adult level. We had one sunday school student that was hired as an associate pastor. But it did not really work out because he did not have a level of maturity to fully function at that level. But he could preach a good sermon at a level of understanding that most people can understand.

My son was actually taking classes at four different colleges when he was in High School. The city gave him up to $30,000 a year for the classes. They only pay if you pass. If you do not pass they do not pay. The city is setting up a program now where they are able to graduate from high school with a two year associate degree. This is starting to become very common in the health care profession to get your education while you are still in High School.

As my son would says. If you can not function at a college level, then you can always get a job at McDonalds. It all depends on your level of problem solving skills. Although as a computer engineer he is developing programs to do the work that was being done by the people with an associate degree.

There are always jobs for the people who can function at a problem solving level to get the job done.

God seems to favor the "Shrimp Boat Captains" for some reason.

 

[Diamond72]

God seems to favor the "Shrimp Boat Captains" for some reason.

Leviticus 11:9-12: According to the Old Testament, specifically in the Book of Leviticus, certain seafood is forbidden:

• "Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams, you may eat any that have fins and scales. But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to regard as unclean."
• Shrimp, along with other shellfish, do not have fins and scales, so they are considered unclean under these laws.

That does not stop my wife though, she gobbles that stuff down. Not me I go by the Bible.

 

[Abinowam]

No, he created it to be inhabited , it became formless, the katabole

 

[Paul4JC]

NASB20, Gen 1:


But then, Legacy Standard Bible, Isa 45:


Did God create the earth H8414-formless?

In Genesis 1:2, the earth was created initially as a dark earth. On Day 3, God continued his creation:


At this point, the earth changed. It was no longer formless.

Isa 45:18 refers to Day 3 and afterward:


Isaiah mentioned not-formless in connection with the earth being inhabited.

LXX realized these two confusing usages of H8414. In Genesis 1:2, they translated H8141 as G517-unseen; In Isaish, as G2756-empty. So there is no contradiction in LXX concerning these two passages.

The apparent contradiction in Hebrew can be resolved by pointing to the different time frames.

In the Greek LXX, there is no apparent contradiction.

Did you exist when you were formless?

 

[Aaron112]

Did you exist when you were formless?

Why ask this ?

 

[Diamond72]

Did you exist when you were formless?

Ephesians 1:4 (NIV)
"For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love"

 

[Aaron112]

Ephesians 1:4 (NIV)
"For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love"

Just as Jesus' human body was formed in the womb, not existing previously,
likewise us.

 

[Apple Sky]

God created the formless Earth in 6 days, the same way we might create formless and empty cookies by using a cookie cutter, and adding chocolate chips, perhaps within 6 hours or 6 minutes depending on how fast you can make cookies.

God created it to be inhabited in the same way that we create cookies to be filled with chocolate chips.

 

[Job 33:6]

The wheat for the cookie and the coco for the chocolate come from totally different places. So we did not have chocolate chip cookies until the late 1800's.

In Genesis, you have it all, right there, in the beginning.

 

[Diamond72]

Did God create the earth H8414-formless?

Formless means that the earth was not a solid until the temperature cooled. We see this in rocks. How they were a liquid before they became a solid. If you want to make a diamond you need high temperatures (around 1,500°C or 2,700°F) and pressures (1.5 million pounds per square inch).

 

[JulieB67]

No, I do not believe he created it formless. If we dig deeper we can see that without form and void basically means a ruined waste land. I believe just as Isaiah states -he created it to be inhabited. He didn't just create a big ball of water and go from there -he wouldn't have to. There was land under the water. As he states -he created it to be inhabited. I believe the word "was" in Genesis should be translated in this instance -became or come to pass. It "became" without form and void.
We can look at the globe and see that continents used to fit together and so on. We have the dinosaurs that lived in the former age. We don't know everything there is to know about that time but I think Jeremiah 4 ties into it. He takes us back that the time is was without form and void so we know it's the same time as Genesis. So he's setting the time period he's talking about. He states in his anger the mountains moved. That's why everything is separated at this time. God himself was essentially the big bang when it came this present world age. I myself believe this is when Satan had his downfall. And that's where God's anger of course stems from. It became a big ball of water -covering all of that dry land underneath -everything shifting when the mountains separated. And who knows how long it sat there like that.
And we see in Job that when the foundation itself was laid, the morning stars sang together and the sons of God shouted for joy - both groups of angels.

I believe the 6 creation days are about this present world age, not the former that passed away. That's why we can say the earth is much older than it is. When we see this, than things began to fall into place about the world age, etc.

 

[Job 33:6]

No, I do not believe he created it formless. If we dig deeper we can see that without form and void basically means a ruined waste land. I believe just as Isaiah states -he created it to be inhabited. He didn't just create a big ball of water and go from there -he wouldn't have to. There was land under the water. As he states -he created it to be inhabited. I believe the word "was" in Genesis should be translated in this instance -became or come to pass. It "became" without form and void.
We can look at the globe and see that continents used to fit together and so on. We have the dinosaurs that lived in the former age. We don't know everything there is to know about that time but I think Jeremiah 4 ties into it. He takes us back that the time is was without form and void so we know it's the same time as Genesis. So he's setting the time period he's talking about. He states in his anger the mountains moved. That's why everything is separated at this time. God himself was essentially the big bang when it came this present world age. I myself believe this is when Satan had his downfall. And that's where God's anger of course stems from. It became a big ball of water -covering all of that dry land underneath -everything shifting when the mountains separated. And who knows how long it sat there like that.
And we see in Job that when the foundation itself was laid, the morning stars sang together and the sons of God shouted for joy - both groups of angels.

I believe the 6 creation days are about this present world age, not the former that passed away. That's why we can say the earth is much older than it is. When we see this, than things began to fall into place about the world age, etc.

There are no dinosaurs, the big bang, or plate tectonics in the Bible. The Bible is not a science textbook.

 

[Diamond72]

In Genesis, you have it all, right there, in the beginning.

The universe is a closed system, nothing has been added from the beginning.

 

[Job 33:6]

The universe is a closed system, nothing has been added from the beginning.

Genesis has nothing to do with modern astronomy.

 

[Diamond72]

Genesis has nothing to do with modern astronomy.

We are talking about the laws of physics. Are you one of those people who do not believe that God created the laws of physics?

The idea that the universe is a closed system is a significant concept in physics, particularly in the context of the laws of thermodynamics.

Closed System:​

• Definition: A closed system is one where no matter enters or leaves. Energy can be exchanged with its surroundings, but the total amount of matter remains constant.
• First Law of Thermodynamics: This law, also known as the law of conservation of energy, states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed from one form to another. In a closed system, the total energy remains constant over time.

 

[JulieB67]

There are no dinosaurs, the big bang, or plate tectonics in the Bible. The Bible is not a science textbook.

It's not a history or science book. But behemoth is not a water ox. It does not have a tail like a cedar tree which would indicate a very long tail. The description alone says dinosaur to me down to the nose, etc And we have the fossils to back up Gods description. But believe what you will, it's fine. I do see it as biblical. And I was using "big bang" not as scientists use but to describe in Gods anger the mountains/hills moved. That is biblical.

 

[Job 33:6]

It's not a history or science book. But behemoth is not a water ox. It does not have a tail like a cedar tree which would indicate a very long tail. The description alone says dinosaur to me down to the nose, etc And we have the fossils to back up Gods description. But believe what you will, it's fine. I do see it as biblical. And I was using "big bang" not as scientists use but to describe in Gods anger the mountains/hills moved. That is biblical.

I never said anything about a water ox. But I would agree.