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Did God Create Fossils?

DNA4Paul

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The bible never puts a date on "in the beginning" so do not add to scripture = sin.
The evidence is overwhelming for an old earth see http://www.wonderlylib.ibri.org/Wonderly-TimeRecords/htm/doc.html
Finally, we all accept science (the study of God's works) to help us better understand his word when it comes to a sun centered solar system when there are far more verses implying and actually stating that the sun goes around the earth. The ONLY reasons we reject the earth centered universe are scientific NOT better Hebrew translation.
See The lost world of Genesis One by Walton for a better interpretation of Genesis that is still Biblical and respects the authority of the Word
 
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ClothedInGrace

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The bible never puts a date on "in the beginning" so do not add to scripture = sin.
The evidence is overwhelming for an old earth see http://www.wonderlylib.ibri.org/Wonderly-TimeRecords/htm/doc.html
Finally, we all accept science (the study of God's works) to help us better understand his word when it comes to a sun centered solar system when there are far more verses implying and actually stating that the sun goes around the earth. The ONLY reasons we reject the earth centered universe are scientific NOT better Hebrew translation.
See The lost world of Genesis One by Walton for a better interpretation of Genesis that is still Biblical and respects the authority of the Word
You can believe in heliocentrism without compromising the Word because there are no verses that even address whether the sun revolves around the earth or the earth revolves around the sun: Geocentrism was assumed, but not necessarily taught in scripture. Evolution and billions of years however is a massive threat to the clear teaching of Genesis.
 
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DNA4Paul

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You can believe in heliocentrism without compromising the Word because there are no verses that even address whether the sun revolves around the earth or the earth revolves around the sun: Geocentrism was assumed, but not necessarily taught in scripture. Evolution and billions of years however is a massive threat to the clear teaching of Genesis.
You can believe in heliocentrism without compromising the Word because there are no verses that even address whether the sun revolves around the earth or the earth revolves around the sun: Geocentrism was assumed, but not necessarily taught in scripture. Evolution and billions of years however is a massive threat to the clear teaching of Genesis.
Joshua 10 says the sun and moon stood still, not the earth. Eccl says the sun sets and hurries back to where it rises. Ps 19 implies the sun goes around the earth and another psalm says the earth cannot be moved. We all take these now as descriptions from a human point of view because the science for a sun centered universe is overwhelming as is the evidence for an old earth and universe to say that there is good scientific evidence for a young earth is just not truthful don't repeat long refuted young earth arguments - it is dividing the church over a minor issue: the age of the creation.
 
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toLiJC

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So you are admitting that your last statement was misleading? That the Bible in fact says nothing about Satan using magic to create fossils.

Also, the Bible portrays witchcraft as a reality so if magic does work the Biblical authors really weren't hiding the fact that it works.

when it comes to God and faith, i never afford/dare to mislead any person, the Holy Scripture is intended to lead the people to repentance, not to put an idea into someone's head that he or she can do real magic, because the occultism is forbidden by God, as it is explained in Deuteronomy 18:10-14

yes, the witchcraft is presented in the Bible, but only as something dangerous and forbidden - why must people be acquainted with the power of the occultism, especially when God has forbidden the occult activity/practice as a whole because it is most dangerous for the humankind?!, for exactly the spiritual iniquity is the original sin, the very sin, and even the only one, because it is the cause of all other evils and iniquities

Saying Satan magiced some fossils would be no different than talking about the witch of endor, Egyptians turning sticks to snakes, etc.. All sorts of occult things are already mentioned.

it is not the same, because for example the witch of endor got very frightened when she saw/faced the glory of the true God manifesting through the resurrected prophet Samuel, and for that reason, 'cause she was very frightened because the Holy Spirit caught her exercising/practicing occultism which is a kind of spiritual iniquity, nothing remained for her to do but only to serve the true God and His resurrected Prophet - i.e. she was not commended by God, but reprimanded, as for the egyptian priests, they were also occultists, moreover, very great occultists, who were able to perform the same sings and wonders that God showed through Moses, but then they were killed by God, because it is written that God killed all firstborn clerics of egypt

not all possible sorts of occult things are described in detail in the Bible, but only some occult things are mentioned in brief there

Blessing
 
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ClothedInGrace

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Joshua 10 says the sun and moon stood still, not the earth. Eccl says the sun sets and hurries back to where it rises. Ps 19 implies the sun goes around the earth and another psalm says the earth cannot be moved. We all take these now as descriptions from a human point of view because the science for a sun centered universe is overwhelming as is the evidence for an old earth and universe to say that there is good scientific evidence for a young earth is just not truthful don't repeat long refuted young earth arguments - it is dividing the church over a minor issue: the age of the creation.
So what you're saying is that God's Word contradicts reality. I see nothing suggesting Geocentrism in God stopping the sun and moon by His power, or in Solomon describing his observations of the sun, or in the psalms, or anywhere in the Bible.
 
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miamited

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If the flood did not produce the fossil record, then what did in context of a young earth view? I have heard it said that God could have created coal when He formed the world. But coal comes from organic remains, pressurized over long periods of time. Also, coal seams contain fossils, such as the imprints of leaves and other organic structures. If God created this, he is essentially making detailed evidence of something alive that never lived. Would God do this?

Hi homohabilis,

You said that coal comes from organic remains. That's true! Where do people come from?
If the flood did not produce the fossil record, then what did in context of a young earth view? I have heard it said that God could have created coal when He formed the world. But coal comes from organic remains, pressurized over long periods of time. Also, coal seams contain fossils, such as the imprints of leaves and other organic structures. If God created this, he is essentially making detailed evidence of something alive that never lived. Would God do this?

Hi homohabilis,

I came from the sexual union of my parents. You likely did too. That's where people come from. Coal comes from organic remains and people come from the union of two people.


But.....


Then there's Adam. And let's not forget Eve. You see, not everything comes from where we think is the only place that things can come from.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Riberra

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But.....


Then there's Adam. And let's not forget Eve.You see, not everything comes from where we think is the only place that things can come from.
You have still no answers about:

From where come the hundred(s) millions of years old fossils?
From where come the 4,5 billions years old geological dating of the Earth ?

The answer:
Creation by God in eternity past, to which all Fossils and "Remains" belong.

A THE PRIMAL CREATION. HEAVENS AND EARTH. "The world (Greek kosmos) that then was." Genesis 1:1, 2-. 2Peter 3:6.
Genesis 1:1
1 IN the beginning °God °created °the heaven and the earth.

ISAIAH CHAPTER 45:
18 For thus saith 1the LORD °That created the heavens;
God Himself °That formed the earth and °made it;
he hath established it, °He created it not °in vain,
He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the LORD;
and there is none else.

B Satan's first rebellion :The earth became waste and a ruin (Hebrew tohu va bohu). Genesis 1:2-. God created it not a ruin (Isaiah 45:18, Hebrew tohu) nor waste ("confusion").

C THE EARTH RESTORED AND BLESSED. "The heavens and the earth which are now." Genesis 1:2—2:3. 2Peter 3:7.

D SATAN ENTERS AND THE CONSEQUENCE. Genesis 3.

Taken from:
THE ETERNAL PURPOSE
(Ephesians 3:11).
THE DISPENSATIONAL PLAN OF THE BIBLE.
http://www.therain.org/appendixes/app198.html

And NOTES ON ISAIAH 45:18
http://www.therain.org/appendixes/isa4518.html#g12
 
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stephen583

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"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world ARE CLEARLY SEEN, being understood by the THINGS THAT ARE MADE"... (Romans 1:20, KJV).

The principle of "observation" as proof, is not only stated in the Bible, (as indicated in the passage above), but is also recognized by the scientific method as one of its' principles as well. In order for a scientific theory to be valid, it must be observable. That's what Sir Issac Newton used when he dropped an apple and observed the force of gravity acting on the apple. The force of gravity, then became part of Newton's theory about the "Laws of Motion".

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" Albert Einstein.

I agree with Einstein. Religion without science is blind. To me the Genesis creation story is filled with fact, that has been substantiated by modern science. Science says the universe began with the "Big Bang". Take a look at the first three lines of Genesis. "The earth was without form and void"(Gen.1:2)... What is earth (matter), without form ??? The Bible is talking about subatomic matter, isn't it ?! "And God moved upon the face of the waters". What are the different faces (forms) of water ? Isn't its' molecular designation H2o one of them ?! (two parts hydrogen, one part oxygen).

What happens when an atom of hydrogen is "moved upon", or "split" ?! You release an awful lot of energy, don't you ? Energy in the form of what ??? "And God said, Let there be Light" (Gen.1:3) !!! What science calls the Big Bang. The theory of hydrogen fission is right there staring everyone in the face, in the first three lines of Genesis.

You read a little further, and it says life was brought forth from the waters (Gen. 1:21). I believe science also states as well life on this planet began in the oceans. It also says, "God created the great whales and every winged fowl"... The word "whale" as it appears in the KJV Bible, is of course a poor transliteration. In the original Hebrew text, the words appear, "God created the terrible creatures that are in the sea". Today we know of course whales are not terrifying creatures at all, but that's what they had when they wrote the KJV. We also know the ancient oceans were once filled with truly terrifying marine reptiles. Horrifying predators like Plesiosaurs and Kronosaurus. Am I surprised the Bible mentions the creation of fowl in the same verse with dinosaurs. Not at all. I'd be surprised if it didn't.

Science now recognizes modern birds (fowl) are the direct descendants of dinosaurs. In fact, today dinosaurs are scientifically divided into one of two major categories. Avian (bird-like) and Non-Avian Dinosaurs. From the fossil record, we know raptors were covered with short, downy (pre-flight) feathers, while other dinosaurs (Thuropods) did not share this characteristic. The dinosaur "Archeoptorix" developed full flight feathers, and was probably at least capable of gliding from one tree to another. So it's scientifically correct, for the Bible to mention dinosaurs and fowl "together", as some dinosaur (like Archeoptorix), were more bird like than reptile.

Genesis 1:24 describes a later creation, in which the (earth) brings forth cattle (mammals), creeping things (modern insects and reptiles), and beast of the earth. Is this a description of the emergence of animal life after the extinction of the dinosaurs ???. Life adapting to it's environment on earth ?! Evolution ? Isn't that what science teaches ???

What "beast" is the Bible referring to in Genesis 1:24 ?! I think we know from the fossil record and the bones of the early hominids we've discovered. Australopithicus and their relatives. Neanderthal and Cromagnon, early homo-sapiens come next. Then about ten thousand years ago, evolution is suddenly and inexplicably interrupted, with the appearance of homo sapien-sapien, or modern man. Science admits, they are unable to produce the "missing link" that connects us directly to these earlier creatures.

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness".. (Genesis 1:26).

Notice also in Genesis 1:28, this creation of man in the image of God is commanded to be "fruitful, multiple and replenish the earth". Although early hominids and homo-sapiens existed, they certainly never existed in numbers that suggest they were fruitful, or dominating the earth. The use of the word "replenish" in this verse is also interesting, as it suggests refilling the earth with something that had once been there, but disappeared.

"And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground" (Genesis 4:2).

The story of Cain and Able is also fascinating from a scientific standpoint. According to the University of Jerusalem, archeology has proven the earliest evidence of agriculture appears around the Sea of Galilee where the earth was first tilled and grain was harvested and grinded. However, the first evidence of the domestication of livestock (sheep and cattle) appears in the Near East and Central Asia, where the first ancient cities appear. After Cain slew Able and he was banished, Cain was also cursed so that the earth would no longer yield anything when it was tilled, (Genesis 4:12), and Cain became the builder of a city, (Gen.4:17).

So in almost every respect, the origin of life on this planet, as well as the chronology of its' development, and the story of how agriculture and livestock developed separately, are both the same in science and in the Bible. What do you think ? Are science and religion that far apart on the creation story ? Not the way I read it, they aren't.
 
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Colter

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So what you're saying is that God's Word contradicts reality. I see nothing suggesting Geocentrism in God stopping the sun and moon by His power, or in Solomon describing his observations of the sun, or in the psalms, or anywhere in the Bible.
No, it's the claim that the writings of the Holy men were the inerrant Word to begin with that is in contradiction to reality today. It could be argued that the literate leaders of the people meant well when establishing their authority on the written word, and in fact it was sufficient to keep the people together in faith in one age, but as mankind has become more enlightened and educated the same claims have become a stumbling block.
 
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Colter

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"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world ARE CLEARLY SEEN, being understood by the THINGS THAT ARE MADE"... (Romans 1:20, KJV).

The principle of "observation" as proof, is not only stated in the Bible, (as indicated in the passage above), but is also recognized by the scientific method as one of its' principles as well. In order for a scientific theory to be valid, it must be observable. That's what Sir Issac Newton used when he dropped an apple and observed the force of gravity acting on the apple. The force of gravity, then became part of Newton's theory about the "Laws of Motion".

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" Albert Einstein.

I agree with Einstein. Religion without science is blind. To me the Genesis creation story is filled with fact, that has been substantiated by modern science. Science says the universe began with the "Big Bang". Take a look at the first three lines of Genesis. "The earth was without form and void"(Gen.1:2)... What is earth (matter), without form ??? The Bible is talking about subatomic matter, isn't it ?! "And God moved upon the face of the waters". What are the different faces (forms) of water ? Isn't its' molecular designation H2o one of them ?! (two parts hydrogen, one part oxygen).

What happens when an atom of hydrogen is "moved upon", or "split" ?! You release an awful lot of energy, don't you ? Energy in the form of what ??? "And God said, Let there be Light" (Gen.1:3) !!! What science calls the Big Bang. The theory of hydrogen fission is right there staring everyone in the face, in the first three lines of Genesis.

You read a little further, and it says life was brought forth from the waters (Gen. 1:21). I believe science also states as well life on this planet began in the oceans. It also says, "God created the great whales and every winged fowl"... The word "whale" as it appears in the KJV Bible, is of course a poor transliteration. In the original Hebrew text, the words appear, "God created the terrible creatures that are in the sea". Today we know of course whales are not terrifying creatures at all, but that's what they had when they wrote the KJV. We also know the ancient oceans were once filled with truly terrifying marine reptiles. Horrifying predators like Plesiosaurs and Kronosaurus. Am I surprised the Bible mentions the creation of fowl in the same verse with dinosaurs. Not at all. I'd be surprised if it didn't.

Science now recognizes modern birds (fowl) are the direct descendants of dinosaurs. In fact, today dinosaurs are scientifically divided into one of two major categories. Avian (bird-like) and Non-Avian Dinosaurs. From the fossil record, we know raptors were covered with short, downy (pre-flight) feathers, while other dinosaurs (Thuropods) did not share this characteristic. The dinosaur "Archeoptorix" developed full flight feathers, and was probably at least capable of gliding from one tree to another. So it's scientifically correct, for the Bible to mention dinosaurs and fowl "together", as some dinosaur (like Archeoptorix), were more bird like than reptile.

Genesis 1:24 describes a later creation, in which the (earth) brings forth cattle (mammals), creeping things (modern insects and reptiles), and beast of the earth. Is this a description of the emergence of animal life after the extinction of the dinosaurs ???. Life adapting to it's environment on earth ?! Evolution ? Isn't that what science teaches ???

What "beast" is the Bible referring to in Genesis 1:24 ?! I think we know from the fossil record and the bones of the early hominids we've discovered. Australopithicus and their relatives. Neanderthal and Cromagnon, early homo-sapiens come next. Then about ten thousand years ago, evolution is suddenly and inexplicably interrupted, with the appearance of homo sapien-sapien, or modern man. Science admits, they are unable to produce the "missing link" that connects us directly to these earlier creatures.

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness".. (Genesis 1:26).

Notice also in Genesis 1:28, this creation of man in the image of God is commanded to be "fruitful, multiple and replenish the earth". Although early hominids and homo-sapiens existed, they certainly never existed in numbers that suggest they were fruitful, or dominating the earth. The use of the word "replenish" in this verse is also interesting, as it suggests refilling the earth with something that had once been there, but disappeared.

"And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground" (Genesis 4:2).

The story of Cain and Able is also fascinating from a scientific standpoint. According to the University of Jerusalem, archeology has proven the earliest evidence of agriculture appears around the Sea of Galilee where the earth was first tilled and grain was harvested and grinded. However, the first evidence of the domestication of livestock (sheep and cattle) appears in the Near East and Central Asia, where the first ancient cities appear. After Cain slew Able and he was banished, Cain was also cursed so that the earth would no longer yield anything when it was tilled, (Genesis 4:12), and Cain became the builder of a city, (Gen.4:17).

So in almost every respect, the origin of life on this planet, as well as the chronology of its' development, and the story of how agriculture and livestock developed separately, are both the same in science and in the Bible. What do you think ? Are science and religion that far apart on the creation story ? Not the way I read it, they aren't.

After Cain killed Able he left his parents tribe for the land of the Nodites where he found a wife and built a city. Cain feared leaving because of people out on a populated earth. Even God agreed according to the story.
 
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miamited

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Hi riberra,

You wrote:
From where come the hundred(s) millions of years old fossils?
From where come the 4,5 billions years old geological dating of the Earth ?

No, I don't have any answers to explain where hundred million year old fossils come from. I've never seen one. I've heard people make the claim that there are some, but they weren't actually there to see the creature fossilized and so they're just guessing regarding the age. Granted they think that their guesses are correct because they think that they are based on proper scientific methods, but I can assure you that they aren't. You're not likely to believe me and, of course, there's no way of proving either position.

I also don't have any answers for where 4.5 billion years of geological dating of the earth comes from except to offer the same as above. We think to imagine to ourselves that we are very, very smart and wise and studied experts in things of which we know absolutely nothing about. We measure and prod and poke at the creation and think to ourselves that we have it all figured out. We have all kinds of metrics by which we study the creation and weigh and measure the age of things, but we don't have anyone to hand us a rock and say, "Hey, I found this rock in my yard 4.5 million years ago. What do your dating methods say as to its age?"

The only witness alive who knows exactly how old every thing is, is God. He has given us His testimony. I believe God. We live in a created realm which includes the entire universe of stars and planets and nebula and such. It was all created by a personal and loving God who created it all for no other purpose than to provide a place where man, His ultimate and purposed creation, could have life. Where man could live and breath and eat and work and love and be born and die. Man has never been able to provide a suitable answer for any of the works of God. He can't explain how the whole earth could just flood in a matter of days. He can't explain how a wall of water can stand at attention. He can't explain how the sun can be shining brightly in one city and it be pitch black in another only a couple of miles away at most. He can't explain how the sun can just stand still in the sky or how it could possibly back up. He can't explain anything that God has told us that He has done in His words. Why would I think to imagine that man can explain anything as to the greatest and most marvelous work of God; the creation in which we live.

So, when man comes to me and says, "Look, we have proof that some thing is millions or billions of years old". But can't actually offer me someone's testimony that saw the thing come into existence millions or billions of years ago and I have God's testimony that says that in seven days God created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them, I'm going with God's testimony. I believe God. I trust that He has told me the truth as to the how, why and when this created realm came to exist.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Colter

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That is an interesting story you have made up - but it glosses over a lot of "details" in a free will universe.

Laws that have no real penalty other than "forgiveness" become "no law at all".

Rom 3:31 Paul asks the question as to whether the Gospel does in fact destroy the Law of God by wiping out the penalty - and Paul's answer is "God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 31:31.

The solution that you have "made up" only destroys the Law of the universe - it does not "establish it".

Turns out - God knew what He was doing. But those who simply "make stuff up" are trying their hand at besting God when it comes to His solution and the Gospel - but they will never be able to match Him let alone "best" Him.
God is a person not a law.
 
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alexandriaisburning

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there is a true God, Who is absolutely good, which also means not a bit evil, while the rest of the divine is "darkness"

I don't disagree about God being "good", but that also doesn't say much. God is not good because God measures up--in behavior or nature (or both)--to an external standard by which "good" is measured. Rather, God is good because God is God; God would be understood as "good" in whatsoever God chooses to do, regardless of how we might perceive the "goodness" of God's actions. So again, if God destroys the universe on a whim, meddles about in its processes to cause pain, or simply ignores it, God is good without qualification.
 
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homohabilis117

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But what we know to be good comes from God, the ultimate Good. What we know to be good ultimately comes from God, who is Himself good and unchanging. If unchanging and also eternal, what He has been (good) He has been scince all eternity. So to do something contradictory to that "good", would represent evil. And that is something we can think about, but it is impossible in reality. Like truth leading to falsity in a syllogistic statement. Its simply invalid.
 
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alexandriaisburning

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So, when man comes to me and says, "Look, we have proof that some thing is millions or billions of years old". But can't actually offer me someone's testimony that saw the thing come into existence millions or billions of years ago and I have God's testimony that says that in seven days God created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them, I'm going with God's testimony. I believe God. I trust that He has told me the truth as to the how, why and when this created realm came to exist.

This is some significantly flawed logic. You won't accept countless experiments that consistently demonstrate a predictable approach to aging geological phenomena because no one was "there" to see it form? No one was there to see the creation account of Genesis, either, so the criteria is failed in both scenarios. You further say that you "believe God", meaning that you believe the words of Genesis as having their origin in God and representing a literal, mechanistic descriptions of the origin of the earth. However, you have no basis upon which to establish this claim, other than your own presuppositions about the nature of the Scriptures.
 
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BukiRob

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Um, you were talking about Biblical inerrancy and you just gave us an example of an error in the transmission of the text. Kinda defeats your premise.
The changing of a spelling in a word does not in any way change the context.

No one of any scholarly merit will disagree that there is no contextual distinction between a bible you can purchase at the book store and the dead sea scroll from 100 BCE
 
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Winter_Rose

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image.jpeg


My small fossil collection. :)
 
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Radrook

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honestly speaking, satan is rather the one that has materialized the prehistoric fossils in order to mislead the worshipers that there is ostensibly no true God i.e. good/righteous

Blessings

If indeed Satan is ALLOWED to do that then you really can't blame humans for being deceived.
 
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