Did God Create Fossils?

[Colter]

Where does your truth come from? What is your authority? Why not go the whole way and reject Christ altogether? Many say he was just a crazy Jew.

From faith in God.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

From faith in God.

So how do you know whether something is right or wrong? Do you go to scripture or do you have faith and receive/feel the answer?

 

[alexandriaisburning]

but He is absolutely righteous and whatever He does is (perfect) righteousness, considering that righteousness means equality as to the importance of every human being provided with abundant and everlasting life

Yes, God is righteous in whatever God does, regardless of how God's actions correlate with our conceptions of righteousness. If God destroys the universe on a whim, plays puppet master with all of creation, or just lets creation be a universe, God is equally righteous.

and why must God create hell on earth?!, what if some gigantic terrestrial dinosaurs weighing (even hundreds of) tons consume each other as well as eating humans - what's the point?!, why would/should He do that?!

There is no specific reason that God "should" do something like that, but that doesn't really matter; God is free to do as God will, and in whatsoever God does, God is perfectly justified. The "whatsoever" might not be pleasant to our minds, but that doesn't change the "rightness" of God doing that which God desires to do. For it is the sheer act of "doing" that defines what is righteous, for if God has done a thing, it is righteous.

as for science, it would be much more "scientific" if we take into consideration not chiefly what is usually propagandized, but first of all the things of God that are repugnant to the popular scientific concepts(-ions)

"Things of God" are...what, exactly? The scientific method doesn't deal well with transcendental, metaphysical things...and this is by design. While it is certainly not free from the subjectivities of human thinking, it is designed to eliminate personal biases and prejudices in order to arrive at reproducible, demonstrable results. The fewer assumptions that are made, the better.

 

[Steve Petersen]

You can only continue believing this assumption (that coal is created over long periods of time) if you don't pay attention to modern observations:

Coal mined in Upshur County West Virginia is supposed to be about 300 million years old. That seemed to be pretty undeniable. But in 1944 a ten year old boy named Newton Anderson broke open a lump of coal from that seam and found a copper-alloy bell. Is Man that ancient? Science says no. In my agnostic years I thought, “Maybe there’s some mistake or deception somewhere.” But the counter-evidence continues piling up.

An intricate gold chain and a cast iron pot were also found embedded in coal! (What’s going on here? There’s no way manmade artifacts, even on an evolution-scale of one to two million years, should be found cast-in-place in 100-million-year-old coal!) Then I found disagreement between dating systems! Radiocarbon Journal took coal from the 100 million year old level of the geologic chart and found it to be 1,680 years old, using Carbon-14 dating!

The scientists who had assured me of the 100 million years necessary to create coal only left out this one, ‘insignificant’ assumption: It takes that long with dry earth when no heat other than the compression due to depth. When geothermal water is present, the time required can be reduced to as little as two weeks! It would take a much longer article than this to review all the ‘scientific evidence’ that God used to lead me to reject the scientifically accepted, contrary evidence.

For those of you who aren't locked into supporting evolution's assumptions, see my linkedin blog, New Creation Ideas.

-- Nuclear Engineer/Scientist retired after 26 years of predicting the future for the US government at a national lab.

Debunked.

http://www.ecalpemos.org/2010/07/mystery-of-bell-found-in-coal.html

 

[BukiRob]

So how do you know whether something is right or wrong? Do you go to scripture or do you have faith and receive/feel the answer?

He doesn't view scripture as being the inerrant word of G-d. This of course means that he decides what is truth and what is not truth.
Which is easier? To say let their be light and there was light OR to miraculously ensure the literary purity of scripture.

Today's OT bibles are largely a reflection of the Masoretic text. These Jewish texts were compiled between 500 and 950 AD. To be sure, they are old but are they accurate? The dead sea scrolls are the oldest text we have of scripture the oldest of which dates to around 100 BC which happens to be a full copy of the book of Isaiah.

Scholars did a full comparison of the modern book of Isiah and this scroll that is over 2100 years old. What they discovered was stunning. The 2 were virtually identical. The variances that did exist were related to things like minor spelling variances.

One of the most respected Old Testament scholars, the late Gleason Archer, examined the two Isaiah scrolls found in Cave 1 and wrote, “Even though the two copies of Isaiah discovered in Qumran Cave 1 near the Dead Sea in 1947 were a thousand years earlier than the oldest dated manuscript previously known (A.D. 980), they proved to be word for word identical with our standard Hebrew Bible in more than 95 percent of the text. The five percent of variation consisted chiefly of obvious slips of the pen and variations in spelling.”

Despite the thousand year gap, scholars found the Masoretic Text and Dead Sea Scrolls to be nearly identical. The Dead Sea Scrolls provide valuable evidence that the Old Testament had been accurately and carefully preserved.

There does not exist in all of mankind's writings any other book that has this level of literary purity and the closest book to it, is miles and miles away from having that level of literary accuracy.

What this means is that the Scripture being read every Sabbath in Jerusalem at the Temple is virtually identical to the one read today. The fact that that is true is in and of itself miraculous and in my mind proves that the Bible is indeed the word of Adonia Elohim. It is the bedrock foundation upon which I stand

 

[toLiJC]

I'm sorry if this offends anyone but as far as I'm concerned Genesis does not explicitly say that God created the universe and earth in six solar days, nor does it say that there were no humans before 6000 years ago.

Why wrestle with these matters when there are so many other more important issues, challenges, and problems that are facing Christians today?

What about the nature of man at the end-time (2 Tim 3 and 4)? What about finding a way to properly answer Muslims in the face of all that Islam tells them? What about the prevalence of that apostasy called the "Word of Faith" or "Prosperity" gospel? What about the western part of the church having a Laodecian nature? What about the total lack of recognition of healing by some high-profile teachers (MacArthur)?

Does any of this bother anybody?

Why plague the church with this type of discussion that is bound to bring in dissension among believers? Is it not obvious that just as some believers insist on abstinence from alcohol, which we must respect by abstaining when in their company, there are those who have trouble accepting any creation interpretation except "Young Earth"?

I for one cannot accept "Young Earth" in the face of all that science has discovered. In my view science doesn't have a problem with religion until religion begins to question its methods of observation, theory, and proof. Science was never meant to prove God's existence and it makes no assumption on that either way. The real problems are rooted in attitudes planted when science is used to try to exclude God, a practice that I consider entirely despicable and cowardly.

But as I said. I apologize if this offends anyone.

why should God make the world vain for millennia, millions of years or more before He created the first man(adam)?!, and if the duration of a single eternity is strictly fixed, why should He prejudice the chances of the souls to have abundant life for a maximally long time by protracting the process of creation for millennia or more?!

Blessings

 

[Steve Petersen]

He doesn't view scripture as being the inerrant word of G-d. This of course means that he decides what is truth and what is not truth.
Which is easier? To say let their be light and there was light OR to miraculously ensure the literary purity of scripture.

Today's OT bibles are largely a reflection of the Masoretic text. These Jewish texts were compiled between 500 and 950 AD. To be sure, they are old but are they accurate? The dead sea scrolls are the oldest text we have of scripture the oldest of which dates to around 100 BC which happens to be a full copy of the book of Isaiah.

Scholars did a full comparison of the modern book of Isiah and this scroll that is over 2100 years old. What they discovered was stunning. The 2 were virtually identical. The variances that did exist were related to things like minor spelling variances.

One of the most respected Old Testament scholars, the late Gleason Archer, examined the two Isaiah scrolls found in Cave 1 and wrote, “Even though the two copies of Isaiah discovered in Qumran Cave 1 near the Dead Sea in 1947 were a thousand years earlier than the oldest dated manuscript previously known (A.D. 980), they proved to be word for word identical with our standard Hebrew Bible in more than 95 percent of the text. The five percent of variation consisted chiefly of obvious slips of the pen and variations in spelling.”

Despite the thousand year gap, scholars found the Masoretic Text and Dead Sea Scrolls to be nearly identical. The Dead Sea Scrolls provide valuable evidence that the Old Testament had been accurately and carefully preserved.

There does not exist in all of mankind's writings any other book that has this level of literary purity and the closest book to it, is miles and miles away from having that level of literary accuracy.

What this means is that the Scripture being read every Sabbath in Jerusalem at the Temple is virtually identical to the one read today. The fact that that is true is in and of itself miraculous and in my mind proves that the Bible is indeed the word of Adonia Elohim. It is the bedrock foundation upon which I stand

Um, you were talking about Biblical inerrancy and you just gave us an example of an error in the transmission of the text. Kinda defeats your premise.

 

[toLiJC]

What verse can I look to that elaborates on Satan creating fossils to confuse scientists living thousands of years in the future about the age of the earth ? I've never even seen the word "fossil" in the translations I use.

some biblical passages on this were already presented in my previous posts of this thread

all kinds of things can be materialized, and it is not necessary that any materialization which was ever performed by the satanic kingdom be described in the Holy Scripture, because It is not a manual/handbook of occultism, for God does not intend to tell the people they could do real magic - guess why?

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

I agree that creation could be an ongoing process. However, if fossils came from any process other than the death and preservation of once living organisms, that would mean God is creating illusions.

how can you be sure that someone except for God didn't do real magic being able to materialize great things against the Will of the true Lord?!

Blessings

 

[AionPhanes]

some biblical passages on this were already presented in my previous posts of this thread

all kinds of things can be materialized, and it is not necessary that any materialization which was ever performed by the satanic kingdom be described in the Holy Scripture, because It is not a manual/handbook of occultism, for God does not intend to tell the people they could do real magic - guess why?

Blessings

So you are admitting that your last statement was misleading? That the Bible in fact says nothing about Satan using magic to create fossils.

Also, the Bible portrays witchcraft as a reality so if magic does work the Biblical authors really weren't hiding the fact that it works. Saying Satan magiced some fossils would be no different than talking about the witch of endor, Egyptians turning sticks to snakes, etc.. All sorts of occult things are already mentioned.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Since I do not hold the YE view.
I think God created all things billions of years ago... just as nature appears to tell us.
I also believe in guided evolution as method the All Wise Creator designated for life to exist and proceed on this earth.
Dinosaurs did exist millions of years ago. They died and left the fossil record. It is that simple.

 

[toLiJC]

What you are saying is an arbitrary interpretation of scripture. Nowhere does the bible even hint that the devil could, would, or did make fossils to deceive. What you are saying is an interpretation of of a few verses about the devil deceiving, yet the verses in question are open to a wide range of interpretations. If you are going to interpret scripture this way, why not interpret genesis according to a day age or gap theory view? What gap theory or day age views do is the same as what you are doing with the scriptures about satan, except they are more parsimonious descriptions of reality. If the devil is constantly toying with reality to deceive us, how can we know anything is true? How can we trust our senses to any degree? If the devil can create fossils, he can create anything. Even the computer I am presently using may have been crafted by the devil for my own deception and demise. Beyond causing natural disasters to afflict Job, I cant think of anywhere in the bible where the devil is described as having that kind of power.

if the worshiper (whoever he or she may be) does not receive direct revelations from God, then they could at least (try to) reason right so they can understand the truth, for example reflecting on questions like, is such and such a thing good or bad for the humans?!, to what extent is it good and to what extent might it be bad?!, etc. - but what if we have all the knowledge, but have no effective(God's) salvation for the unsaved people?!

why in the Bible must there be a full information/description about the potential abilities of satan and its angels?!

Blessings

 

[Colter]

So how do you know whether something is right or wrong? Do you go to scripture or do you have faith and receive/feel the answer?

We seek the will of God in prayer just like Jesus did.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

We seek the will of God in prayer just like Jesus did.

How does he answer you? Has he not given us the scriptures? How do you know what the unbelievers say about life is true?

 

[ClothedInGrace]

We seek the will of God in prayer just like Jesus did.

How do you know that Jesus existed and that he prayed?

 

[toLiJC]

. . . . This comment has a shred of truth. Satan is not able to create fossils or ANYTHING real but motivates humans to look for creative arguments in order to assert "signs of" evolution as a creation mechanism other than God.
. . . . It is scientifically impossible to evolve from one species to another. Missing link(s) .? Sorry, but NO! These are NOT missing but leave this test an open question just like the "Tree of Knowledge". See further "witnessing" below.

if satan and its angels could not materialize anything, then they would be nothing but completely harmless

Blessings

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Colter, I noticed your signature and did some research on the book of Urantia... Is that where your faith comes from?

 

[toLiJC]

Yes, God is righteous in whatever God does, regardless of how God's actions correlate with our conceptions of righteousness. If God destroys the universe on a whim, plays puppet master with all of creation, or just lets creation be a universe, God is equally righteous.

There is no specific reason that God "should" do something like that, but that doesn't really matter; God is free to do as God will, and in whatsoever God does, God is perfectly justified. The "whatsoever" might not be pleasant to our minds, but that doesn't change the "rightness" of God doing that which God desires to do. For it is the sheer act of "doing" that defines what is righteous, for if God has done a thing, it is righteous.

"Things of God" are...what, exactly? The scientific method doesn't deal well with transcendental, metaphysical things...and this is by design. While it is certainly not free from the subjectivities of human thinking, it is designed to eliminate personal biases and prejudices in order to arrive at reproducible, demonstrable results. The fewer assumptions that are made, the better.

there is a true God, Who is absolutely good, which also means not a bit evil, while the rest of the divine is "darkness"

Blessings

 

[BobRyan]

If the flood did not produce the fossil record, then what did in context of a young earth view?

Why wouldn't the flood have done it??

I have heard it said that God could have created coal when He formed the world.

Why would he need to do that?

But coal comes from organic remains, pressurized

"From a chemical perspective, it would be possible to convert green plant debris into coal-like material by exposing it to elevated temperatures and pressures for extended periods of time in low-oxygen conditions. A reaction vessel in a laboratory could be used to mimic the coal-forming process. "

from: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ed006p64
"Artificial coal made from wood substance"

"Artificial coal making machine manufacturing companies from wood substance. Cellulose and lignin, the two principal constituents of wood, have been converted into artificial coals practically identical with natural coal found ready-made in the ground."
http://www.wikipedy.com/artificial_coal_making_machine_manufacturing_companies.htm

over long periods of time. Also, coal seams contain fossils, such as the imprints of leaves and other organic structures. If God created this, he is essentially making detailed evidence of something alive that never lived. Would God do this?

no need to - the same process that makes coal in a short time can also make fossils.

 

[BobRyan]

As for the flood, there wasn't one on the scale depicted in the Noah story.

Except on Planet Earth - here we did in fact have one just as the Bible states.

And denying the Bible record was predicted 2000 years ago -

2 Peter 3
4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” 5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that
A. -- by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
B. -- 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.
C. -- 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

When the Hebrew authors were attempting to trace their bloodlines (authority) back to a much older Adam and Eve, they couldn't. So they exploited a local flood legend

You speculate that they were just "making stuff up".

But your own post simply shows how easy it is to "make stuff up" that has holes in it.

While this is a great way for atheists and agnostics to look at the Bible - Christians don't buy what atheists and agnostics "make up" because one thing we all agree on is -- "it is easy to make stuff up".

in Christ,

Bob