Did God create evil?

[Bevlina]

Hi Bevlina,

I would venture to say...

Ego.


Just my 2 cents.

Have a great day!

-Amy

awwww Amy! You are so sweet!!

 

[urnotme]

This thread has become very interesting! But, I'm still trying to work out just HOW evil began in the spiritual realm.

Lucifer had freedom of will, he was the anointed cherub that covers or an arch angel There are only one or two verses that call him that in isaiah and ezekial so it doesn't give much information as to what an anointed cherub is, one is ezekial 28:14. There are three orders of angels cherubim, seraphim and angles which are all called angels and a cherub the highest order. anyway lucifer got jelous. It says he was perfect in all his ways till iniquity was found in him. If God didn't create that iniquity and angels don't have the power to create, evil is logically a non intity. or a lack of good.

 

[Bevlina]

Thankyou urnotme, I haver been trying to find references to what you have just told me!!

 

[urnotme]

I think you have said something that often comes to my mind that people tend to project human emotion onto God. I don't agree with the interpretation of man that says God is a jealous and vengeful God. That has not been my experience.

I can see how you would come to think the way you do if all you are left to is the teachings of man and not personal experience.

Casi (not getting out any devices to torture you like they would have in medievil times) [/QUOTE I don't think God can realy be jelous or he would not be god. Jelousy is a human emotion as we think of jelousus. I think that is a metaohor. God gives himself human characteristics so we can understandhim better. I think god uses metaphors in the quran too. Muslims does he?

 

[9Harmony]

Wow, that was amazing to read here. Spiritual beings in the material realm is exactly what we are. The human experience is sweet, poignant, painful, funny, and so much more. But in the end the human experience doesn't define us. We are more than that. Much more.

BB!

Hi ravenscape,

Exactly!

My POV is that just as in the womb we develop attributes that we need to exist in this world. This world is the womb in which we should be developing the spiritual attributes we need in the next world. This chance will not come again, everyday that goes by that we focus on only the material aspect of things is a day that we will never get back. This life is a precious gift, it is up to each of us what we do with it.

Have a wonderful day!

-Amy

 

[9Harmony]

I think what people like to blame here on God as "the wrath of God" is really the natural consequences of our actions. I think we pretty much create the cause and effect thing ourselves. If you are rude and nasty to your neighbor while they may not retaliate, they will not consider you a friend perhaps and limit their exposure to you and they could really be great people. Or if you cheat on your taxes...one day...mr. IRS will come knocking on your door and the penalties and late fees are HORRENDOUS! I don't believe that God takes our loved ones away from us or punishes us. I think the Divine waits for us to come to him and then he supports us and answers us. Sometimes the kindest answers I have gotten to prayer have been no. Being so very human I don't always have the big picture in mind nor do I know what is always best for me.

Casi (so very grateful for a loving Father)

I completely agree!

Just as Jesus says that the Kingdom of God is within you. The Baha'i Writings tell us that God is closer to us than our life vein. Yet, it is up to us to remember that. God is always close to us, yet, we distance ourselves from Him/Her. When that realization hits us, it becomes easier to keep our lives inline with the teachings and live accordingly.

Have a wonderful day!

-Amy

 

[9Harmony]

This thread has become very interesting! But, I'm still trying to work out just HOW evil began in the spiritual realm.

Hi Bevlina,

Could it stem back to Adam and Eve? When ego took precedence over the Will of God.

Just a thought. I really have no idea.

 

[urnotme]

Yes.

If God created good and evil wouldn't that make him evil? Doesn't it say in your scriptures that God is light and in him is no darkness? I think evil would qualify as darkness.

 

[~Nihilus~]

If God created good and evil wouldn't that make him evil?

it would make God good and evil; but this also depends on how one defines evil

 

[~Nihilus~]

I think it began with the fall of lucifer, reallly before the fall when the thought entered into his mind. Evil is the absence if good and like you say it's like a vacuum, a non entity if you will. Kind of like a negative number.

negative things sometimes gain substance as with wars and violence

 

[~Nihilus~]

If you believe that God is good how could a good god create something evil or corrupt? Which is why I think there was a span of time between genusis 1:1 and 1:2 but that's a differant subject. Maybe not, when god created the world it was good. Something had to happen to make it bad and so it was with all good. God didn't create bad he created good. It had to be man's choice to turn good into bad. By not doing good man does bad.

the gap theory that you refer to is held by the Assembly of God denomination, which is a rather mainstream Christian denomination

 

[~Nihilus~]

I agree religion bashing gets us nowhere and does more harm than good. You post something then the other guy does and it turns into an arguement. It's like I'll tell you what you believe then you tell me what I believe and we both know what not to believe. To address your question I don't think evil was created in the sense that most people think. It is a distortion of good which was created by God in the beginning. Man was created by God, man turned good into evil, god is said to have created evil because god created man who distorted what was good turning it into evil. Man can't create, he can only corrupt that which had been created. That gives me an idea for a thread on the meaning of some words.

so if evil is not really evil, then is good really good? how are we defining good and evil?

 

[Cassiopeia]

If God created good and evil wouldn't that make him evil? Doesn't it say in your scriptures that God is light and in him is no darkness? I think evil would qualify as darkness.

I disagree...darkness is the absense of light. It has nothing to do with evil only metaphorically. When they speak of good, they speak of it giving light...or rather enlightenment.

I can just see all the little kids being afraid of the sun going down and afraid that they would be surrounded in evil.

 

[gaijin178]

I disagree...darkness is the absense of light. It has nothing to do with evil only metaphorically. When they speak of good, they speak of it giving light...or rather enlightenment.

I can just see all the little kids being afraid of the sun going down and afraid that they would be surrounded in evil.

I have to admit Casi, I am a little afraid of the dark....lol...sorry, it's friday and I am in a goofy mood!

 

[Cassiopeia]

I have to admit Casi, I am a little afraid of the dark....lol...sorry, it's friday and I am in a goofy mood!

from all the scary stories I bet. When I was a kid I used to sneak a flashlight into my bedroom I was so afraid of the dark. I still have nightmares.
I have a nightlight in the bathroom that is within my master bedroom.

And you know what...goofy is just alright by me

Casi (holding a candle just for you

 

[urnotme]

so if evil is not really evil, then is good really good? how are we defining good and evil?

I define good as good and evil as a lack of good. There are differant degrees of it but it isn't good. Unless you think the end justifies the means it can't have been created by God. God can make good into bad but that doesn't mean he wanted the bad to happen. It's like you shouldn't go out and fight a war just because you can win it.

 

[~Nihilus~]

I define good as good and evil as a lack of good. There are differant degrees of it but it isn't good. Unless you think the end justifies the means it can't have been created by God. God can make good into bad but that doesn't mean he wanted the bad to happen. It's like you shouldn't go out and fight a war just because you can win it.

i believe that (moral) evil originates from a lack of good, but people can grant a psuedo-substance to evil through their actions

 

[urnotme]

i believe that (moral) evil originates from a lack of good, but people can grant a psuedo-substance to evil through their actions

I agree

 

[urnotme]

I disagree...darkness is the absense of light. It has nothing to do with evil only metaphorically. When they speak of good, they speak of it giving light...or rather enlightenment.

I can just see all the little kids being afraid of the sun going down and afraid that they would be surrounded in evil.

That's true, God is described as being light would that not be a metaphor too? Since God is good and God is light in my mind goodness is light.The lack of light is dark, the lack of good is evil.

 

[9Harmony]

This thread has become very interesting! But, I'm still trying to work out just HOW evil began in the spiritual realm.

Hi Bevlina,

Someone just posted this in another forum and I thought it was interesting and does seem to address your question.


"There is a Qur'anic Account of God telling the Angels to submit to Adam afer creating Him. This account does not exist in the Bible, but it does occur in an Armenian book called "Life of Adam" that first appeared between the first and the third centuries A.D. It says as follows:

"Satan also wept loudly and said to Adam. 'All my arrogance and sorrow came to pass because of you; for, because of you I went forth from my dwelling; and because of you I was alienated from the throne of the cherbus who, having spread out a shelter, used to enclose me; because of you my feet have trodden the earth.' Adam replied and said to him, 'What are our sings against you, that you did all of this to us?' Satan replied and said, 'You did nothing to me, but I came to this measure because of you, on the day which you were created, for I went forth on that day. When God breathed his spirit into you, you received the likeness of his image. Thereupon, Micheal came and made you bow down before God. God said to Michael, 'Behold I have made Adam in the likeness of my image.'Then Micheal summoned all the angels, and God said to them, 'Come, bow down to god whom I made.' Michael bowed first, He called me and said 'You too bow down to Adam.' I said, 'Go away, Michael! I shall not bow down to him who is posterior to me for I am former. Why is it proper for me to bow down to him?'

The other angels, too, who were with me, heard this, and my words seemed pleasing to them and they did not prostrate themselves to you, Adam. Thereupon, God became angry with me and commanded to expel us from our dwelling and to cast me and my angels, who were in agreement with me, to the earth; and you were at the same time in the Garden. When I realized that because of you I had gone forth from the dwelling of light and was in sorrows and pains, then I prepared a trap for you, so that I might alienate you from your happines just as I, too, had ben alienated because of you.' When Adam hard this, he said to the Lord, 'Lord, my soul is in your hand. Make this enemy of mine distant from me, who desires to lead me astray, I who am searching for the light that I have lost.'.

At that time Satan passed away from him. Adam stood from then on in the waters of repentence, and Eve remained fallen upon the ground for three days, like one dead. Then, after three days, she arose from the earth."

Now compare that to Sura 17, verses 61-65!"

Have a great day!

Loving Greetings, Amy