Did God create evil?

[Bevlina]

My humble opinion is that something living that is supposedly 0% evil and still concious would likely be insane.

Then again I don't really think there is such a thing as "sane" as it is, but I mean as in worse than that.

Evil being a human concept of course.

Very interesting viper.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

What good purpose can come from evil?

With keeping the remarks from post #18 in mind, remember the book of JOB.

 

[9Harmony]

On another thread it was mentioned that Wiccans believe that God created good AND evil. Is that what Wiccans really believe? I have had opposing opinions on this subject.

Also, all other faiths, does your religion teach this principle?

Hi Casi,

In the Baha'i Faith, we believe that evil is simply the absence of good. God gave us free-will, so we have choices to make and when our choices are not based in goodness, this is where evil stems from. That's the brief version.

Have a great day!

-Amy

 

[Cassiopeia]

Oh one more respectful request, before using Biblical Scripture, you need to tell us how you seperate it from the corrupted ones, if you can not answer this question, do not use Biblical Scripture or cease to call it corrupted. I don't believe in Islamic scripture and I hardly ever use it, if I do, it is to show muslim acting contrary to what they are commanded.

This is not an opportunity for contention. Please keep to the topic.

 

[Cassiopeia]

SNIP!!!

Does God create evil? Certainly not. If He was the author of evil, then He certainly would not be a good God that is worthy of worship and praise, much less trusted to have our well-being in mind. The idea of a good God creating His own enemy and the object of His wrath seems inconceivable. It would be inconsistent for a good God to mastermind the idea of evil, will it into existence, and still be considered a good God.

Rather, God created man in His image with the freedom to choose. With this freedom came the opportunity to rebel against Him. Man did rebel ( Genesis 3 ), and the rest is history. The annals of human history chronicle how God uses everything— even the chaos of this world— to bring about His glory and purposes. Those purposes include our growth in becoming more Christlike.

What’s the point of Isaiah 45:7? God reveals His almighty and awesome character to us so we can relax with the confidence that comes from knowing, even in the most dark, desperate, and discouraging times in our lives, God is up to something good for us all the time.

Thank you for this part of your post. I found it much more easy to understand and you make your point very well here.

 

[Cassiopeia]

Hi Casi,

In the Baha'i Faith, we believe that evil is simply the absence of good. God gave us free-will, so we have choices to make and when our choices are not based in goodness, this is where evil stems from. That's the brief version.

Have a great day!

-Amy

Hello there

Thanks for your post, I have been actually wondering if that is what it is. I certainly don't believe that God created it.

Casi

 

[sefroth77]

As some Religions believe that there is a individual being known as a Devil causing Evil and mischief towards man-kind. This in-return causes Man to Do evil deeds.

So this individual being known as the Devil is for sure created by God. My question is,God should have known that this Devil is going to cause great evil to this universe and why didn't he prevent it ? Even if he didn't prevent,it could also imply that God made a mistake in creating such a being. If its a mistake than he's Not a All-knowing God.

Conclusion:

God failed to Prevent such a being because :

1.He Forgot to Prevent it
2.God himself wants it to happen, this makes a All-Good God into a Bad-One.


But the biggest question is If God knows that this particular Son is going to cause great evil than why create it in the first place ?


So As Long as a person believe in a God and a Satan, than its very clear the the notion of God is this aspect is a God who created Evil by mistake or by his own will.

 

[Talmidah]

does your religion teach this principle?

Yes.

 

[TreeHugger]

The way i see it is that without evil we would all be perfect and live harmoniously right? But we couldn't be judged justly if we did not have the choice of being evil or not, so God gave us the choice of being evil or not and that must mean that God created evil but he didnt make the world evil, he just gave us the right to choose whether to be evil or not so that when judgment day comes God will look at ours lives and be able to tell who is going where
Rach (please dont be offended by my views )

 

[benmaarof]

As some Religions believe that there is a individual being known as a Devil causing Evil and mischief towards man-kind. This in-return causes Man to Do evil deeds.

So this individual being known as the Devil is for sure created by God. My question is,God should have known that this Devil is going to cause great evil to this universe and why didn't he prevent it ? Even if he didn't prevent,it could also imply that God made a mistake in creating such a being. If its a mistake than he's Not a All-knowing God.

Conclusion:

God failed to Prevent such a being because :

1.He Forgot to Prevent it
2.God himself wants it to happen, this makes a All-Good God into a Bad-One.

But the biggest question is If God knows that this particular Son is going to cause great evil than why create it in the first place ?

So As Long as a person believe in a God and a Satan, than its very clear the the notion of God is this aspect is a God who created Evil by mistake or by his own will.

In Islam, Satan or the Devil or Iblis does not cause evil to happen. He may be the tempter, but evil happens because our own soul permits it.

Quran
15:39 (Iblis) said: "O my Lord! because Thou hast put me in the wrong, I will make (wrong) fair-seeming to them on the earth, and I will put them all in the wrong,-
5:40 "Except Thy servants among them, sincere and purified (by Thy Grace)."

35:5 O men! Certainly the promise of God is true. Let not then this present life deceive you, nor let the Chief Deceiver deceive you about God.
35:6 Verily Satan is an enemy to you: so treat him as an enemy. He only invites his adherents, that they may become Companions of the Blazing Fire.

* -Iblis is the angelic name of Satan before he became a fallen angel

Satan (the Chief Deceiver) can only try to deceive us, but it's up to us, due to our freewill, to either fell into his temptation or to reject it. He tries to deceive us by trying to make the good look evil and the evil look good.

Satan is only one of God's creatures like us (in the sense that he is part of creation). He is helpless to do anything, he's not omnipotent. He can only try deceive. It's up to us not to fall into his trap.

Quran 4:79 Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from God; but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thy (own) soul. and We have sent thee (Muhammad) as an apostle to (instruct) mankind. And enough is God for a witness.

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

Very interesting. So in your mind, did God create evil because we need it? What good purpose can come from evil? I am interested in knowing what you believe. It reminds me of Mormonism that says,

Dont you think it would be better to first understand what God teaches in the Bible before you can understand the Islamic perspective of "evil" ? The reason I am saying this is cause I am a bit shocked, not knowing your calibar in the Bible, that you would even express such a thing when it is in your own book.

Isaiah 55: 7Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.


8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Do you know what this means ? Ok, this is what it meanns to us, please correct us if we have errored here. How we think and preceive is not the way God sees it. We may see something that was evil, but in the sight of God it was for a good purpose.

In the Islamic perspective a perfect example was given with Moses and his companion :

[18.60] And when Musa said to his servant: I will not cease until I reach the junction of the two rivers or I will go on for years.
[18.61] So when they had reached the junction of the two (rivers) they forgot their fish, and it took its way into the sea, going away.
[18.62] But when they had gone farther, he said to his servant: Bring to us our morning meal, certainly we have met with fatigue from this our journey.
[18.63] He said: Did you see when we took refuge on the rock then I forgot the fish, and nothing made me forget to speak of it but the Shaitan, and it took its way into the river; what a wonder!
[18.64] He said: This is what we sought for; so they returned retracing their footsteps.
[18.65] Then they found one from among Our servants whom We had granted mercy from Us and whom We had taught knowledge from Ourselves.
[18.66] Musa said to him: Shall I follow you on condition that you should teach me right knowledge of what you have been taught?
[18.67] He said: Surely you cannot have patience with me
[18.68] And how can you have patience in that of which you have not got a comprehensive knowledge?
[18.69] He said: If Allah pleases, you will find me patient and I shall not disobey you in any matter.
[18.70] He said: If you would follow me, then do not question me about any thing until I myself speak to you about it
[18.71] So they went (their way) until when they embarked in the boat he made a hole in it. (Musa) said: Have you made a hole in it to drown its inmates? Certainly you have done a grievous thing.
[18.72] He said: Did I not say that you will not be able to have patience with me?
[18.73] He said: Blame me not for what I forgot, and do not constrain me to a difficult thing in my affair.
[18.74] So they went on until, when they met a boy, he slew him. (Musa) said: Have you slain an innocent person otherwise than for manslaughter? Certainly you have done an evil thing.
[18.75] He said: Did I not say to you that you will not be able to have patience with me?
[18.76] He said: If I ask you about anything after this, keep me not in your company; indeed you shall have (then) found an excuse in my case.
[18.77] So they went on until when they came to the people of a town, they asked them for food, but they refused to entertain them as guests. Then they found in it a wall which was on the point of falling, so he put it into a right state. (Musa) said: If you had pleased, you might certainly have taken a recompense for it.
[18.78] He said: This shall be separation between me and you; now I will inform you of the significance of that with which you could not have patience.
[18.79] As for the boat, it belonged to (some) poor men who worked on the river and I wished that I should damage it, and there was behind them a king who seized every boat by force.
[18.80] And as for the boy, his parents were believers and we feared lest he should make disobedience and ingratitude to come upon them:
[18.81] So we desired that their Lord might give them in his place one better than him in purity and nearer to having compassion.
[18.82] And as for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the city, and there was beneath it a treasure belonging to them, and their father was a righteous man; so your Lord desired that they should attain their maturity and take out their treasure, a mercy from your Lord, and I did not do it of my own accord. This is the significance of that with which you could not have patience.

 

[Cassiopeia]

Yes.

I don't remember that being covered in our studies at the University when a Rabbi came to speak to us about Judiasim.

What exactly does your faith teach you about God creating evil?

 

[Cassiopeia]

The way i see it is that without evil we would all be perfect and live harmoniously right? But we couldn't be judged justly if we did not have the choice of being evil or not, so God gave us the choice of being evil or not and that must mean that God created evil but he didnt make the world evil, he just gave us the right to choose whether to be evil or not so that when judgment day comes God will look at ours lives and be able to tell who is going where
Rach (please dont be offended by my views )

I don't think anyone should be offended by one's views, thanks for your thoughts

 

[ravenscape]

Hi Casi,

This is my third attempt to answer your post. It's an excellent question and it deserves a quality answer. But I'm afraid to write another quality answer after what happened to the previous two.

My beliefs fit more or less within the loose framework that is Wicca, but I don't call myself Wiccan. It's a niggle, but it's an important niggle to me

I'm a dualist, a pantheist and a polytheist and these "ists" color my beliefs regarding the origin of evil.

As a dualist, I believe that the Divine is both male and female. Also, as a dualist but wearing a different dualism hat, I believe that the Divine, as well as everyone and everything in our universe is both dark and light. Or good and evil in our human, mortal, limited lexicon. Harsh winters, violent storms and natural disasters may do great harm but often the same processes also do great good as well. And often human choices about where to build and where to live and how to build turn a bad storm into a disaster. Think: Florida, high density retirement communities and mobile home parks, limited highway infrastructure to move large numbers inland, and the tendency for people to postpone evacuation until the storm is upon them and they fully understand the forces involved. Do Floridians deserve to suffer losses in hurricanes? No. Is there a certain inevitability given the nature of storms and the choices that people make? Yes. That's a bit of a digression, but possibly illustrative of the basic neutrality of natural forces. Death is a natural and necessary part of life. From death comes renewal.

As a pantheist, I believe that the Divine dwells in every creature, every mountain, every river, every tree, every grain of sand and every speck of cosmic dust in this universe. There is a spark of Divine in the landslide, in the earthquake, and in the psychopath. Does the Divine urge the psychopath to commit an atrocity? No. The choice is in our hands to do good and to do evil. Some people choose to hurt others, hurt themselves, hurt the planet. Some people choose to act unmindfully with sad results. When our grasp extends further, I am sure we'll do harm to other planets as well.

As a polytheist, I believe that the avatars that humans worship are real and tangible. These Old Ones, these Gods, Goddesses partake in great measure the nature of the all-encompassing Divine. But, I don't believe in the personification of Evil. Dark and light intermixed and inseparable, but not Dark alone, not an Evil One. Humans have no need of a great Temptor. En mass, we do a fine job of tempting ourselves, of resisting temptation, and of succumbing to temptation.

I hope clicking the post reply button will not cause an abrupt reboot this time!

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

This is not an opportunity for contention. Please keep to the topic.

Thanks for the warning and sorry, contention was not my purpose though I wanted to point out that Biblical interpretation should be done properly by the people of that book.

 

[Cassiopeia]

Thank you ravenscape for not giving up. Your post is very detailed and very informative, we need more of that here on this forum.

I must confess, I have to reread it over and over because I am trying to comprehend it after a 12 hour day at work. But I promise you I am going to keep at it till I understand it. The same goes for all who posted here

Casi

 

[urnotme]

On another thread it was mentioned that Wiccans believe that God created good AND evil. Is that what Wiccans really believe? I have had opposing opinions on this subject.

Also, all other faiths, does your religion teach this principle?

Thanks for your participation.

*Please note* PLEASE, I beg you, for the sake of my sanity, do NOT turn this into a flame fest or question a person's integrity or their christianity. I do not want this thread to be derailed PLEASE.

Casi (peace be with you all)

I agree religion bashing gets us nowhere and does more harm than good. You post something then the other guy does and it turns into an arguement. It's like I'll tell you what you believe then you tell me what I believe and we both know what not to believe. To address your question I don't think evil was created in the sense that most people think. It is a distortion of good which was created by God in the beginning. Man was created by God, man turned good into evil, god is said to have created evil because god created man who distorted what was good turning it into evil. Man can't create, he can only corrupt that which had been created. That gives me an idea for a thread on the meaning of some words.

 

[Cassiopeia]

Thanks for the warning and sorry, contention was not my purpose though I wanted to point out that Biblical interpretation should be done properly by the people of that book.

Many people of many religions study each other's sacred books. While I agree that a Christian will probably best understand the NT...that isn't always the case and the interpretations are varied.

Don't worry, I got a similar contentious post aimed at me.
Casi

 

[Bevlina]

*MOD HAT ON*


Everyone in this thread is to keep to the topic, and reply to one another in a civilised and well mannered fashion.

The OP had brought forward an excellent question. Therefore, all will refrain from any flames or belitting comments.

People of all faiths are permitted to post their own beliefs. Please continue to do so in harmony and respect.
Thankyou.


*MOD HAT OFF*

 

[Airdude]

God did not create evil as we know it. He has allowed it, but did not create it.
God did create the Angels as well as mankind with freewill, or the power of choice. When Lucifer was still in Heaven he decided that he should be on the same level as Jesus. This is the first indication of the existance of evil.