Did Daniels AOD and The Great Tribulation Take Place In 66-70AD Jerusalem, As Reformed Preterist Eschatology Claims?

[Truth7t7]

The temple destruction talked about In Matthew 24:2, Mark 13:2, was symbolically the Lord's body as John 2:19-21 teaches below

Daniel's AOD, The Great Tribulation, and The Second Coming are "Future Events" unfulfilled

Daniel's AOD causes the great tribulation, Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation, this didn't take place in 66-70AD Jerusalem, Reformed Preterist Eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment is "Wrong"

John 2:19-21KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Pretty hard to have a Great Tribulation in 66-70AD and Jesus Christ returning (Immediately After The Tribulation) as seen below, reformed preterist eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment is "Wrong"

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[HTacianas]

The temple destruction talked about In Matthew 24:2, Mark 13:2, was symbolically the Lord's body as John 2:19-21 teaches below

Daniel's AOD, The Great Tribulation, and The Second Coming are "Future Events" unfulfilled

Daniel's AOD causes the great tribulation, Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation, this didn't take place in 66-70AD Jerusalem, Reformed Preterist Eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment isis "Wrong"

John 2:19-21KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Pretty hard to have a Great Tribulation in 66-70AD and Jesus Christ returning (Immediately After The Tribulation) as seen below, reformed preterist eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment is "Wrong"

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The temple destruction of Matthew 24 (also Luke) was in fact the destruction of the physical temple they were standing in front of at the time. See "not one stone left upon another" and then see how bad that destruction was. But also, we have 2 Thessalonians 2:3 saying that he will place himself in the temple claiming to be God. I personally believe Titus, son of Emperor Vespasian (god to the Romans), did enter into the temple and proclaimed himself god on behalf of his father. But the only written account of it we have is Josephus. Josephus was notoriously protective of both Titus and Vespasian in all of his writings. He may not have included it so as not to accuse Titus of desecration. But on top of all that, Vespasian's image was carried along with the Roman Eagles that were propped against the temple wall and worshipped as well. See Luke 17:37, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

 

[DavidPT]

The temple destruction talked about In Matthew 24:2, Mark 13:2, was symbolically the Lord's body as John 2:19-21 teaches below

Daniel's AOD, The Great Tribulation, and The Second Coming are "Future Events" unfulfilled

Daniel's AOD causes the great tribulation, Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation, this didn't take place in 66-70AD Jerusalem, Reformed Preterist Eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment is "Wrong"

John 2:19-21KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Pretty hard to have a Great Tribulation in 66-70AD and Jesus Christ returning (Immediately After The Tribulation) as seen below, reformed preterist eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment is "Wrong"

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Maybe you are aware of this, maybe you are not. There are some interpreters who take verses 29-30 to be involving the final days of this age. While at the same time, take verses 15-21 to be involving the first century and 70 AD. They insist the tribulation of those days mentioned in verse 29, it is not meaning great tribulation mentioned in verses 15-21, it is meaning a different tribulation of days that occur at a different time, a later time, I guess.

But what does the text in verse 29 say, though? It says this---the tribulation of those days. Obviously, some keywords would be
'tribulation' and 'those days. Let's do a search for those words and see where else they are mentioned in Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Here is the only other mention of 'tribulation' in all of Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


And here are the only other mentions of 'those days' in Matthew 24.

Does verse 19 involve tribulation? Of course it does since verse 21 is obviously pertaining to verse 19, for one.



Does verse 22 involve tribulation? Obviously. Is one going to argue that 'those days' mentioned in both verse 19 and 22, that this is not involving verse 21? Of course not. Why then would anyone argue that 'those days' recorded in verse 29 is not meaning the same 'those days' recorded in verse 19 and 22, but is meaning another 'those days' Matthew 24 knows nothing about? If that is not an example of adding to the text something not found in the text, I don't know what is? Is that a proper way to interpret something? By adding to the text something not found in the text? I would hope not since it doesn't come across as sound Hermeneutics by having to add to the text something not found in the text, then insist you are interpreting the passage correctly.

Clearly then, the era of time one decides verse 30 fits, has to be the same era of time that verses 15-26 are involving. One can't insist verses 15-21 are involving an era of time 2000 years ago while insisting verses 29-30 are involving an era of time 2000 years later, then expect some of the rest of us to take that interpretation seriously.

Though, I don't agree with Preterists either, at least they don't have verses 15-21 meaning 2000 years ago then have verse 29-30 meaning some 2000 years later. But even so, it still doesn't mean they are interpreting this passage in question correctly. IMO, the only ones that are interpreting Matthew 24:15-30 correctly are the ones that have verse 30 involving the 2nd coming in the end of this age, and then have verses 15-21 closing out the final days of this age. Bu that doesn't mean one should take verses 15-21 in a literal sense then. As if it makes sense that there will be a rebuilt temple, animal sacrificing resuming, then being put to end yet again. But not by Christ's death this time around, but by the future AntiChrist.

Those that argue that everything that is recorded in Matthew 24, that it is meaning in the literal sense throughout, do they also argue that this too is meaning in a literal sense as well? the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,

Should we expect literal stars to start falling out of the sky in the future? What is there, like billions and billions of stars? And all of these are literally going to start falling from heaven some day? If that's the case, kinda' renders verse 30 nonsensical when it says this---then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven. I wonder how they even live to see any of that if literal stars have been falling out of the sky above from deep space? The point then is, obviously it is not meaning in a literal sense pertaining to stars falling from heaven. And if that doesn't have to be taken in a literal sense, why can't there be other events recorded in Matthew 24 that don't have to taken in a literal sense, either? Such as verses 15-20?

 

[Truth7t7]

I personally believe Titus, son of Emperor Vespasian (god to the Romans), did enter into the temple and proclaimed himself god on behalf of his father.

Scripture shows your belief in Titus 79-81AD to be (The Man Of Sin) is false, as the scripture below teaches this future human man will be destroyed by the brightness of the Lord's second coming, a future event unfulfilled

2 Thessalonians 2:8KJV
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

 

[Truth7t7]

Maybe you are aware of this, maybe you are not. There are some interpreters who take verses 29-30 to be involving the final days of this age. While at the same time, take verses 15-21 to be involving the first century and 70 AD. They insist the tribulation of those days mentioned in verse 29, it is not meaning great tribulation mentioned in verses 15-21, it is meaning a different tribulation of days that occur at a different time, a later time, I guess.

But what does the text in verse 29 say, though? It says this---the tribulation of those days. Obviously, some keywords would be
'tribulation' and 'those days. Let's do a search for those words and see where else they are mentioned in Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Here is the only other mention of 'tribulation' in all of Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


And here are the only other mentions of 'those days' in Matthew 24.

Does verse 19 involve tribulation? Of course it does since verse 21 is obviously pertaining to verse 19, for one.



Does verse 22 involve tribulation? Obviously. Is one going to argue that 'those days' mentioned in both verse 19 and 22, that this is not involving verse 21? Of course not. Why then would anyone argue that 'those days' recorded in verse 29 is not meaning the same 'those days' recorded in verse 19 and 22, but is meaning another 'those days' Matthew 24 knows nothing about? If that is not an example of adding to the text something not found in the text, I don't know what is? Is that a proper way to interpret something? By adding to the text something not found in the text? I would hope not since it doesn't come across as sound Hermeneutics by having to add to the text something not found in the text, then insist you are interpreting the passage correctly.

Clearly then, the era of time one decides verse 30 fits, has to be the same era of time that verses 15-20 are involving. One can't insist verses 15-21 are involving an era of time 2000 years ago while insisting verses 29-30 are involving an era of time 2000 years later, then expect some of the rest of us to take that interpretation seriously.

Though, I don't agree with Preterists either, at least they don't have verses 15-21 meaning 2000 years ago then have verse 29-30 meaning some 2000 years later. But even so, it still doesn't mean they are interpreting this passage in question correctly. IMO, the only ones that are interpreting Matthew 24:15-30 correctly are the ones that have verse 30 involving the 2nd coming in the end of this age, and then have verses 15-21 closing out the final days of this age. Bu that doesn't mean one should take verses 15-21 in a literal sense then. As if it makes sense that there will be a rebuilt temple, animal sacrificing resuming, then being put to end yet again. But not by Christ's death this time around, but by the future AntiChrist.

Those that argue that everything that is recorded in Matthew 24, that it is meaning in the literal sense throughout, do they also argue that this too is meaning in a literal sense as well? the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,

Should we expect literal stars to start falling out of the sky in the future? What is there, like billions and billions of stars? And all of these are literally going to start falling from heaven some day? If that's the case, kinda' renders verse 30 nonsensical when it says this---then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven. I wonder how they even live to see any of that if literal stars have been falling out of the sky above from deep space? The point then is, obviously it is not meaning in a literal sense pertaining to stars falling from heaven. And if that doesn't have to be taken in a literal sense, why can't there be other events recorded in Matthew 24 that don't have to taken in a literal sense, either? Such as verses 15-20?

Not one word you present in your novel sized response removes the facts

1.) Daniel's AOD causes the great tribulation and those to flee

2.) Matthew 24:21 (No nor ever shall be) excludes 66-70AD Jerusalem, as World War 2 saw 70 Million killed in the world, with 6 million being Jews alone, the future great tribulation will be worse

3.) Immediately After The Tribulation of "Those Days" ties the second coming to the tribulation spoken of in Matthew 24:21, no proclaimed professor of theology is needed to interpret the very clear words presented

Conclusion: Daniel's AOD, The Great Tribulation, And The Second Coming are future events tied together by the time stamp, and it wasn't fulfilled in 66-70AD, reformed preterist eschatology is "Wrong" the events mentioned are "Future" unfulfilled

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[DavidPT]

Not one word you present in your novel sized response removes the facts

1.) Daniel's AOD causes the great tribulation and those to flee

2.) Matthew 24:21 (No nor ever shall be) excludes 66-70AD Jerusalem, as World War 2 saw 70 Million killed in the world, with 6 million being Jews alone, the future great tribulation will be worse

3.) Immediately After The Tribulation of "Those Days" ties the second coming to the tribulation spoken of in Matthew 24:21, no proclaimed professor of theology is needed to interpret the very clear words presented

Conclusion: Daniel's AOD, The Great Tribulation, And The Second Coming are future events tied together by the time stamp, and it wasn't fulfilled in 66-70AD, reformed preterist eschatology is "Wrong" the events mentioned are "Future" unfulfilled

Jesus Is The Lord

By this response, other than your complaint about my post being maybe a bit too lengthy, it appears that you maybe suffer from reading comprehension at times , the fact you act as if I'm trying to refute the OP when I'm not. I just wanted you to be aware, in the event that you are not, that there are interpreters out there, but not meaning me though, that interpret verses 15-21 to be meaning 70 AD while interpreting verses 29-30 to be meaning the final days of this age and the 2nd coming. Obviously, the interpreters I have in mind here are not Preterists, otherwise they too would take the coming in verse 30 to be involving 70 AD like Pretersts do, except they don't. But I don't think you care to begin with, apparently. Wish I would have realized that before I even bothered typing all of that up and posting that.

 

[Truth7t7]

By this response, other than your complaint about my post being maybe a bit too lengthy, it appears that you maybe suffer from reading comprehension at times , the fact you act as if I'm trying to refute the OP when I'm not. I just wanted you to be aware, in the event that you are not, that there are interpreters out there, but not meaning me though, that interpret verses 15-21 to be meaning 70 AD while interpreting verses 29-30 to be meaning the final days of this age and the 2nd coming. Obviously, the interpreters I have in mind here are not Preterists, otherwise they too would take the coming in verse 30 to be involving 70 AD like Pretersts do, except they don't. But I don't think you care to begin with, apparently. Wish I would have realized that before I even bothered typing all of that up and posting that.

I'm fully aware that reformed preterist eschatology believes and teaches that Matthew 24:15 & Matthew 24:21 were fulfilled in 66-70AD Jerusalem, while believing in a future second coming, this belief is called (Partial Preterism)

 

[David Kent]

The temple destruction talked about In Matthew 24:2, Mark 13:2, was symbolically the Lord's body as John 2:19-21 teaches below

Daniel's AOD, The Great Tribulation, and The Second Coming are "Future Events" unfulfilled

Daniel's AOD causes the great tribulation, Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation, this didn't take place in 66-70AD Jerusalem, Reformed Preterist Eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment is "Wrong"

John 2:19-21KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Pretty hard to have a Great Tribulation in 66-70AD and Jesus Christ returning (Immediately After The Tribulation) as seen below, reformed preterist eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment is "Wrong"

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Yes his body was resurrected after three days, and the temple of his body was rebuilt then.

 

[Jamdoc]

absolutely not. the Holocaust already exceeded 70AD as far as Religious persecution goes and the world is headed towards an even greater persecution than that.

If the preterists were right then this current trajectory of the world makes no sense.
but if the 70th week is yet future then it makes perfect sense and we should expect the things that are happening (and expect that they will get worse)

Not to mention, Jesus said the generation that witnessed these things would witness ALL of them fulfilled, including the second coming.

Partial preterism violates this, because you've arbitrarily said Jesus only meant some of the things, not all.

 

[Truth7t7]

absolutely not. the Holocaust already exceeded 70AD as far as Religious persecution goes and the world is headed towards an even greater persecution than that.

If the preterists were right then this current trajectory of the world makes no sense.
but if the 70th week is yet future then it makes perfect sense and we should expect the things that are happening (and expect that they will get worse)

Not to mention, Jesus said the generation that witnessed these things would witness ALL of them fulfilled, including the second coming.

Partial preterism violates this, because you've arbitrarily said Jesus only meant some of the things, not all.

I agree 100%

Reformed preterist eschatology turns to Matthew chapter 24 and they claim Daniel's AOD in verse 15 is fulfilled, and the great tribulation in verse 21 is fulfilled?

Then we come to Matthew 24:29-30 that states "Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days" then verse 30 has the second coming in the heavens

Pretty hard to have a 66-70AD great tribulation and Jesus returning immediately after it, as we sit here with no return of Jesus and waiting, smiles!

 

[David Kent]

In Matthew 23 Jesus told the Jews that they admitted that their fathers killed the prophets and they would fill up the measure of their fathers. They did that when they killed their messiah. As a result he said to them that their house would be left desolate, i.e. the temple would be destroyed. As a result when they came out from the temple they pointed out the large stones:

MARK 13:1-3 NKJV Then as He went out of the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, “Teacher, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!” And Jesus answered and said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone shall be left upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?”

The answer to that was when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel (Let the reader understand) Or Luke
“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

Luke explained what the AOD was,. The Jews did not understand but the disciples did. They exited the city as Jesus commanded them and history tells us that many we t to Pella. It was also recorded the not one Christian died in that tribulation.

it there was none "such as" not worse than. The city was filled with corpses piled on top of each other. Those that lately worn the priestly garments were thrown naked into the streets. The house of records was burnt down so no Jew since has been able to prove his ancestry. The Jewish temple and cities were destroyed. The Jews were crucified in such numbers that there were not enough crosses, so a number had to be hung on the same cross. So many were taken as slaves, that the price of slaves crashed on the Roman slave market because no one wanted to buy them and many were sent to mines in Egypt. (fulfilling Matthew 28) the

MARK 12: 1-9 Then He began to speak to them in parables: “A man planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a place for the wine vat and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. Now at vintage-time he sent a servant to the vinedressers, that he might receive some of the fruit of the vineyard from the vinedressers. And they took him and beat him and sent him away empty-handed. Again he sent them another servant, and at him they threw stones, wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully treated. And again he sent another, and him they killed; and many others, beating some and killing some. Therefore still having one son, his beloved, he also sent him to them last, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ But those vinedressers said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ So they took him and killed him and cast him out of the vineyard. “Therefore what will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the vinedressers, and give the vineyard to others.

LUKE 20: Then He began to speak to them in parables: “A man planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a place for the wine vat and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. Now at vintage-time he sent a servant to the vinedressers, that he might receive some of the fruit of the vineyard from the vinedressers. And they took him and beat him and sent him away empty-handed. Again he sent them another servant, and at him they threw stones, wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully treated. And again he sent another, and him they killed; and many others, beating some and killing some. Therefore still having one son, his beloved, he also sent him to them last, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ But those vinedressers said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ So they took him and killed him and cast him out of the vineyard. “Therefore what will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the vinedressers, and give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it they said, “Certainly not!”

The vineyard was taken from them.

This is historicist teaching that is the teaching of the church from the beginning. You futurist teaching is Jesuit teaching brought from the end of the 16th century by the Jesuits to counter this. It was ignored by the Protestants till the early 19th century when it was absorbed by charismatic presbyterians in London, and soon after by the Plymouth Brethren. At the end of the 19th century futurist teaching was widely considered a heresy. It began to be popularised with the publication of the Scofield bible which was given free to American seminaries, thus spreading the virus.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Not one word you present in your novel sized response removes the facts

LOL. What he posted, if all his extra spacing between paragraphs was removed, was equivalent to about 2 pages of a novel. It's very difficult to take you seriously when you say things like this.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I agree 100%

Reformed preterist eschatology turns to Matthew chapter 24 and they claim Daniel's AOD in verse 15 is fulfilled, and the great tribulation in verse 21 is fulfilled?

Then we come to Matthew 24:29-30 that states "Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days" then verse 30 has the second coming in the heavens

Pretty hard to have a 66-70AD great tribulation and Jesus returning immediately after it, as we sit here with no return of Jesus and waiting, smiles!

Congrats on being in full agreement with a dispensationalist.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

By this response, other than your complaint about my post being maybe a bit too lengthy, it appears that you maybe suffer from reading comprehension at times

He does. Trust me.

, the fact you act as if I'm trying to refute the OP when I'm not. I just wanted you to be aware, in the event that you are not, that there are interpreters out there, but not meaning me though, that interpret verses 15-21 to be meaning 70 AD while interpreting verses 29-30 to be meaning the final days of this age and the 2nd coming.

I can't imagine he wouldn't be aware of that since that describes my view and I, and a few others who see it as I do, have talked to him about this before.

Obviously, the interpreters I have in mind here are not Preterists,

But, he calls us preterists, anyway.

otherwise they too would take the coming in verse 30 to be involving 70 AD like Pretersts do, except they don't.

He doesn't care about that. If you agree with a preterist on even one thing while disagreeing with them on everything else, then you too are a preterist in his mind.

But I don't think you care to begin with, apparently.

No, he does not.

Wish I would have realized that before I even bothered typing all of that up and posting that.

Do you agree with him that Matthew 24:1-2 is talking about the temple of Jesus's body? I noticed that you didn't respond to that claim at all. I don't think anyone agrees with him on that, yet he insists that is the case.

 

[Jamdoc]

I agree 100%

Reformed preterist eschatology turns to Matthew chapter 24 and they claim Daniel's AOD in verse 15 is fulfilled, and the great tribulation in verse 21 is fulfilled?

Then we come to Matthew 24:29-30 that states "Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days" then verse 30 has the second coming in the heavens

Pretty hard to have a 66-70AD great tribulation and Jesus returning immediately after it, as we sit here with no return of Jesus and waiting, smiles!

It's because they don't get the context of "this generation". Jesus wasn't referring specifically to the apostles, but that's where there belief stems from that Jesus meant the apostolic generation so that it had to happen in the first century, and 70AD is the closest thing they can find. However, that's not what Jesus meant by "this generation". Jesus was referring to the generation that saw the birth pangs and abomination of desolation. Jesus' point was not that it'd happen in 70AD or during the first century at all, but rather that when it happened it would happen within a short period of time, He was referring to Daniel's 70th week after all, that is a period of 7 years, with 3.5 of them being the Great Tribulation.

and the big thing is.. Jesus professed He did not know when this would happen. Only the Father knows (Mark 13:32).
He didn't know AD70, He didn't at least at that time know if it was going to be 2000 years in the future, 3000 years, any time.

What Jesus knew was what events would take place, and how they'd take place in relation to each other, but not when they'd take place in relation to His temporal location then. Jesus used scripture to know what He knew a lot of the time, Yes He is God, Yes He had the Holy Spirit, but He relied on the Word of God in the same manner as we do, because He is our example.
We're not supposed to be looking for spiritual knowledge whispered into our ears by a spirit, or rely on our own intuition even if we were the Son of God. The Son of God leaned on scripture, because that is what we're supposed to do.

 

[DavidPT]

LOL. What he posted, if all his extra spacing between paragraphs was removed, was equivalent to about 2 pages of a novel. It's very difficult to take you seriously when you say things like this.

What I'm contemplating doing one of these days, since there are sites out there where you can submit something you wrote and that it then summarizes what all you wrote, thus making the post less lengthy while still basically saying what you intended to say, is submitting the summaries instead. What I find interesting about sites like that, the fact some of you complain I'm too hard to follow at times, it doesn't appear these sites that can summarize what I wrote have a hard time following what I said, though.

The main reason I brought up all this other stuff via that post to begin with is because my mind tends to work in a debunking fashion a lot of the time. Therefore, I was also, while I was at it, attempting to debunk any interpretation that insists verses 15-21 are not involving the same era of time verse 29 and 30 is.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

What I'm contemplating doing one of these days, since there are sites out there where you can submit something you wrote and that it then summarizes what all you wrote, thus making the post less lengthy while still basically saying what you intended to say, is submitting the summaries instead. What I find interesting about sites like that, the fact some of you complain I'm too hard to follow at times, it doesn't appear these sites that can summarize what I wrote have a hard time following what I said, though.

Isn't that done automatically? Should we have something implanted in our brains that is able to translate what you're saying like those sites do? I'm kidding. Anyway, I think you misunderstood what I said because I'm not saying that your post was too long. Someone else was. I was making light of him calling it "novel-sized" when in reality it would only take up about 2 pages of a novel, which isn't too much. So, I'm saying that it was not too long. Some people just have too short of attention spans.

The main reason I brought up all this other stuff via that post to begin with is because my mind tends to work in a debunking fashion a lot of the time. Therefore, I was also, while I was at it, attempting to debunk any interpretation that insists verses 15-21 are not involving the same era of time verse 29 and 30 is.

Again, I was not saying that your post was too long, so you didn't really need to say all of this to me.

 

[David Kent]

I agree 100%

Reformed preterist eschatology turns to Matthew chapter 24 and they claim Daniel's AOD in verse 15 is fulfilled, and the great tribulation in verse 21 is fulfilled?

Then we come to Matthew 24:29-30 that states "Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days" then verse 30 has the second coming in the heavens

Pretty hard to have a 66-70AD great tribulation and Jesus returning immediately after it, as we sit here with no return of Jesus and waiting, smiles!

Reformed? by that i suppose you mean reformation understanding? The taught that the Pope I'd Antichrist. That was not new then. The Waldensians taught that in their treatise on Antichrist in about AD 1200. The Hussites in particular John Huss wrote many letters to the Lollards on the same subject. This teaching is the Continuing Historical Teaching which has sustained the saints and martyrs during the dark days of great tribulation under the Inquisition and various crusades against the Waldensians, Leonists, and many other faithful martyrs.

Dispensationalism on the other hand is relatively modern and taken from Jesuit teaching, the very people who caused much suffering.
The Jews knew when the Messiah would come from Daniel 9 and looked for him, but didn't recognise him when he came, because they were looking for the wrong Messiah, one of their own imagination. Except for a few.

Likewise the church knew when the Antichrist would come but most didn't recognise him as they were looking for an Antichrist of their own imagination.

The only one of the three main understanding of prophecy that is not from the Jesuits, is that which you seem to call reformed. Futurism, in particular dispensational futurism and preterism are both from the Jesuits.

Rome pagan and Rome papal were always persecutors of the saints.

 

[Truth7t7]

Reformed? by that i suppose you mean reformation understanding? The taught that the Pope I'd Antichrist. That was not new then. The Waldensians taught that in their treatise on Antichrist in about AD 1200. The Hussites in particular John Huss wrote many letters to the Lollards on the same subject. This teaching is the Continuing Historical Teaching which has sustained the saints and martyrs during the dark days of great tribulation under the Inquisition and various crusades against the Waldensians, Leonists, and many other faithful martyrs.

Dispensationalism on the other hand is relatively modern and taken from Jesuit teaching, the very people who caused much suffering.
The Jews knew when the Messiah would come from Daniel 9 and looked for him, but didn't recognise him when he came, because they were looking for the wrong Messiah, one of their own imagination. Except for a few.

Likewise the church knew when the Antichrist would come but most didn't recognise him as they were looking for an Antichrist of their own imagination.

The only one of the three main understanding of prophecy that is not from the Jesuits, is that which you seem to call reformed. Futurism, in particular dispensational futurism and preterism are both from the Jesuits.

Rome pagan and Rome papal were always persecutors of the saints.

Papal Rome hasnt nor will play any part in the role of (The Man Of Sin/The Beast) this evil human man is future, however I believe the Catholic Pope will fit the future role of the evil human man (The False Prophet)

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[David Kent]

Exactly. The papacy will last till the Lord's return. It has been persecuting believers during its entire dominion. Is is the 8th head os Rome. It came out of the 10 nations that succeeded the emperors.

DANIEL7:8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.

What world leader has spoken such pompous words against God? He has eyes, he is a bishop, an overseer. His seat is called The Holy See.. The papacy came up from the 10 horns. It overthrew 3 of them and took their kingdom. These were known as the papal states. These lasted until 1870 when the king of Italy took them and united Italy under his rule. Mussolini gave the papacy the Vatican city in the 1920s.

There have been many attempts to unite Europe under the papacy throughout history. From Charlemagne, through Guy Fawkes, the Spanish armada, the 1st World War the second World War. Latest is the EU.

Preterism and Futurism have the same effect. That no prophecy concerns us today.
Amos 3:7 & 8. Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets. A lion has roared! Who will not fear? The Lord GOD has spoken! Who can but prophesy?