Did Constantine change the Sabbath to Sunday?

chevyontheriver said:

Christians worship on the eighth day of creation, the day after the Sabbath, the day of the Resurrection.

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Can you show [where in the bible] we are told
to keep [the 8th day of the week] because of
[His resurrection] ?

Semper-Fi said:

Well I posted a link to the Catechism of the Catholic
Church, that shows everything I said in question.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Ten Commandments

Looking at the ten commandments there,

They deleted the second Commandment
and changed God's Sabbath to Sunday,
now referred to as the Lords day. They split
the tenth Commandment into two
to get back to Ten Commandments.

So is this true above or not? If not Is the
Catechism of the Catholic Church false then?
Are you saying you do not believe they
changed the ten commandments ?
You now need to prove they are wrong not me.
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You where the one who said you could buy
it for a dollar. The quote says it came from
the Catholic Encyclopaedia Vol. 4, p. 153,
I believe that to be true, just look at there
ten commandments change says it all.

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http://www.godssabbathtruth.com/SabbathStatementsByTheCatholicChurch.pdf

If you do not believe the quotes listed in above link,
referenced where it was said, I can not help you
by having a hard copy. Or do I have to prove
every quote in question there to be true also ?

Never the less, the Catechism of the Catholic
Church link shows the same thing I have said.
Do you think the Catholic Encyclopedia conflicts
with the Catholic Catechism ?

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You CAN buy a used paperback copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church used for a dollar, maybe a bit more or a bit less, at pretty much any Goodwill. If you don't want to that's fine by me. I'm not forcing you. It's your loss if you don't want to.

I have never seen a Catholic Encyclopedia or any volume of it at Goodwill, nor at any but the rarest of used bookstores. Nor at my local library. I saw one once at a university library but I don't have access to that any longer. I saw a complete copy once at a used bookstore for about $200. So, for practical purposes I would use the online version, which is only indexed by articles listed alphabetically. You must have had access to a physical copy, or else you just copied the link without actually seeing what you quoted from some intermediate source. I'm wondering how accurate your intermediate source is. But there's no way to know because you don't actually know enough about where they got the quote from and you never saw where they actually got the quote from. You are actually quoting people you do not reference, and claiming that THEY accurately quoted something you claim to have quoted. Do you see the problem here? Maybe I'm just asking too much of you to ask what the alphabetical article was that you claimed to quote. Maybe if I just ask you the source of what you were really quoting, rather than what they claimed to be quoting. You are at best using secondary sources, if not tertiary sources, or sources even more far removed. And yet what you posted was AS IF you had quoted directly from the Catholic Encyclopedia, which you apparently did not do and could not do. Because you don't actually know what alphabetical article was referred to on page 153 of volume 4 of the Catholic Encyclopedia. Probably have never seen a Catholic Encyclopedia either. Do you wonder why I am skeptical?

So you think you are providing some profound truth about how the Catholic Church is false, but when I ask one simple question about your source, you don't really have command of what you quoted. Again, I guess I asked too much. But facts matter, and sources matter, and I can't look up something central to your allegations because you never saw what you said you quoted from.

chevyontheriver said:

It's the quote you say came from volume 4 page 153 of the Catholic Encyclopedia that is the real issue.

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volume 4 page 153 of the Catholic Encyclopedia

The Catholic encyclopedia ; an international work of reference on the constitution, doctrine, discipline and history of the Catholic Church : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Seems my source of quote was correct after all.
-
How can I prove quotes below? Are they true?

"On 7 March 321, Constantine I, Rome's first Christian Emperor decreed that Sunday would be observed as the Roman day of rest:[5]

"On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. "[6]
-

"The Pope is of great authority and power, that he is able to modify, declare, or interpret even divine laws. The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth...” — Lucius Ferraris, in “Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica”, Volume V, article on “Papa, Article II”, titled “Concerning the extent of Papal dignity, authority, or dominion and infallibility”, #30, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition.
-

"We ought to obey God, rather than men.” Acts 5:29

How can I prove this bible verse above is valid?
The bible says to prove all things.
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Changing'the'Sabbath
http://pdf.amazingdiscoveries.org/Section PDFs/Changing the Sabbath.pdf

Diclamer: I do not endorce amazingdiscoveries.org

the Vatican’s own words:

¦“Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claim to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles. … From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first” (Catholic Press, August 1900).
-

¦“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. … And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things” (letter from the office of Cardinal Gibbons, Nov. 11, 1895).
-

¦“The church is above the Bible; and this transference of Sabbath observance from Saturday to Sunday is proof positive of that fact. Deny the authority of the church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third—Protestant Fourth—Commandment of God” (The Catholic Record, Sept. 1, 1923).
-

¦“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ (dies Dominica) [or “Sunday”] was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the church’s sense of its own power. … People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically … keep Saturday holy” (Saint Catherine Catholic Church Sentinel, May 21, 1995).
-

I guess now I will be required to prove every quote
above is true, and have access to the original source.

Semper-Fi said:

volume 4 page 153 of the Catholic Encyclopedia

The Catholic encyclopedia ; an international work of reference on the constitution, doctrine, discipline and history of the Catholic Church : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Seems my source of quote was correct after all.

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You, quoting your own post earlier in this thread, had:

“The church, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath of the seventh day of the week to the first made the third commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day.”

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but instead the Catholic Encyclopedia (CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Ten Commandments) and (The Catholic encyclopedia ; an international work of reference on the constitution, doctrine, discipline and history of the Catholic Church : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive) had:

The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day.

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Note that these are NOT identical, and thus yours was NOT an actual quote but a paraphrase. Accuracy always matters. Your quote was close. But you didn't quote it directly even when you finally had the actual text in front of you and the person you lifted the quote from did a sloppy job.

How can I prove quotes below? Are they true?

"On 7 March 321, Constantine I, Rome's first Christian Emperor decreed that Sunday would be observed as the Roman day of rest:[5]

"On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. "[6]
-

"The Pope is of great authority and power, that he is able to modify, declare, or interpret even divine laws. The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth...” — Lucius Ferraris, in “Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica”, Volume V, article on “Papa, Article II”, titled “Concerning the extent of Papal dignity, authority, or dominion and infallibility”, #30, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition.

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You start by referencing where they came from, with accurate citations.

Not just something you found somewhere on the internet. Abraham Lincoln said you can't trust everything you read on the internet. Seriously, there is a lot of 'men' claiming to be truth tellers but they are playing a grand game of Telephone and end up spreading fibs. You need to pay attention to your actual sources, for you are responsible for the accuracy of everything you quote.

Once we get the actual quotes you want we can then see what they say. But really this is all a tempest in a teapot because if you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the subject of the ten commandments you discover that nothing has been left out. It's all elucidated right there in paragraphs 2052 to 2557. And available on line at Catechism of the Catholic Church - Table of Contents if you are too afraid to be caught with a paper copy in your house.

Diclamer: I do not endorce amazingdiscoveries.org

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I wouldn't endorse them either. We can agree on at least one thing.

Semper-Fi said:

the Vatican’s own words:

¦“Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claim to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles. … From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first” (Catholic Press, August 1900).
-

¦“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. … And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things” (letter from the office of Cardinal Gibbons, Nov. 11, 1895).
-

¦“The church is above the Bible; and this transference of Sabbath observance from Saturday to Sunday is proof positive of that fact. Deny the authority of the church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third—Protestant Fourth—Commandment of God” (The Catholic Record, Sept. 1, 1923).
-

¦“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ (dies Dominica) [or “Sunday”] was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the church’s sense of its own power. … People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically … keep Saturday holy” (Saint Catherine Catholic Church Sentinel, May 21, 1995).
-

I guess now I will be required to prove every quote
above is true, and have access to the original source.

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You do not have to prove the truth of every quote but you really do need to insure that your quotes are accurate. And that means properly referencing your quotes. What you did wrong in the above attempts is that you are quoting some other source that may or may not be accurately quoting what you put forward here. The proper thing is for you to reference where YOU got these alleged quotes from. For example, if you got it from a physical book by Marge Inovera called 'Great Book of Anti-Catholic Lies', published in 1898 in East Tecumseh, South Dakota, by Best Anti-Catholic Press Of America' then you reference THAT book as your source with the page and author and title and year published, the publisher, and the place published. Likewise, you refer to something you have lifted from the internet. Otherwise it sure looks like you are taking responsibility for not only the accuracy of the quote but the content and truthfulness of that quote as well. Accurate citation allows you some defense because you can blame the author of the quote.

on the other hand

The council of Trent (Sess. VI, can. xix) condemns
those who deny that the Ten Commandments are
binding on Christians.

the Catholic Encyclopaedia Vol. 4, p. 153
The Catholic encyclopedia ; an international work of reference on the constitution, doctrine, discipline and history of the Catholic Church : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets and this happened on the 1st day of the week.

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This happened on the cross.

John 19
30 .... He said, “It is finished....”

He didn’t change anything.

He established a world wide syncretized religion, that combined elements of the faith of the Scriptures with elements of sun worship, hence Sunday worship, Christmas, Easter, sunrise services etc

The Sabbath never changed - he just convinced people, even 2,000+ years later to not keep the Sabbath, but instead, take part of his syncretized religion of sun worship.

FEZZILLA said:

Did Constantine change the Sabbath to Sunday like SDAs ... claim?...

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No, and also I do not know a single Seventh-day Adventist who teaches officially that he did, in word of mouth or publication, and especially wouldn't be found in anything the messenger of the Lord wrote.

Otherwise, produce that quote in evidence. Or else, the OP is spurious.

As for the so-called church fathers, you might not want to use forged documents, altered renditions, etc - Sunday Fraud: Church "Fathers" on the Lord's Day

Oscarr said:

I think there was a more practical reason. Jewish Christians kept the Saturday Sabbath because in Israel, Saturday was the holy day, while Sunday was just another work day. But in Gentile societies, Sunday was the holy day, and Saturday was a work day, so Gentile Christians went to worship on Sundays. As the church moved away from Jewish influences, Sunday became the day when the majority of Christians went to worship.

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Well, actually the Roman world did not keep a 7-day week of any kind. Their next increment of time beyond "day" was the "Ides" which was the middle of the month--close to but not exactly two weeks, depending on the length of the month. They also incremented time between the holy days declared by the emperor.

"What day is it?"
"It's two days before Ides."
"What day is it?"
"It's three days before the day of Apollo."

What we see in scripture is that Jews and Christians managed their religious activities by the wholly separate Babylonian 7-day week, and we do see that Christians began to set the First Day of that 7-day week as their primary day of meeting and worship even within the first century.