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I give up, do I? . . .News to me.So you think you got your spirit, soul and body from your parents do you?
Precisely. . .the Holy Spirit is eternal life, God's divine eternal life imparted to the immortal human spirit of the "born from above."You've equated the indwelling Holy Spirit as the imparting of eternal life.
The Holy Spirit is that God's divine eternal life imparted to the immortal human spirit, which immortal human spirit of the "born from above," indwelt by the Holy Spirit, at physical death (departure of the indwelt human spirit, Jas 2:26) is then with God (2 Co 5:1-9).The Holy Spirit indwells the body. Eternal life is imparted to the spirit.
It is logical and most important, scriptural.So, you can't show it logically.
Then you should follow that Church. The Body of Christ founded by His Apostles. Then you would not be promulgating false scriptural theories.The rest of what you say there is only assertion.
Funny, you would say "the Church" has declared Calvinism heretical. Are not all the redeemed, The Church? or just EO?
Except that is what the Church has always believed. It is based on scripture which has always been believed.Nor can you show this. It is only a construction, based on self-determination.
No, but He does remove His Spirit from them. Saul is a good example. Another OT person is Solomon, He found favor with God as well, but in His later life departed.Why was God with Saul to begin with? Because God found favor with Saul. Read the whole preface to Saul becoming King. God working through Samuel dismissed others.
God gives his Spirit to unbelievers?????????
The body without the spirit is dead. (Jas 2:26)... Jesus told Nicodemus that he needed to be born again before the Holy Spirit was to be forgiven when we believe.
Jews did not receive the indwelling Holy Spirit at that time. Jesus was telling a Jew that he needed to be born again.
To make him become body, soul, and human spirit.
The apostles received the Holy Spirit in Jn 20:22. The above refers to their special empowering on Pentecost to take the gospel to the world.Please note the following:
On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified." John 7:37-39
So, like I said before, you cannot show it logically, and here you only assert that it is logical.It is logical and most important, scriptural.
Then you should follow that Church. The Body of Christ founded by His Apostles. Then you would not be promulgating false scriptural theories.
Except that is what the Church has always believed. It is based on scripture which has always been believed.
Actually, in the NT eternal life is about the quality/kind of life; i.e., God's own divine life, which is eternal, and imparted to the immortal human spirit when it is born from above.First thing (which may sound "weird") is to define "eternal life".
Is the "lack of death" really defined as "eternal life"?
"Eternal life" has the definition of being "from everlasting to everlasting";
Lack of death is immortality.and since Adam and Eve had a beginning, they did not possess "eternal life", at least not in the redemptive sense; though they did possess the "lack of death" prior to the fall.
They were created physically immortalNow (you want another "mind bender" here); the state of existence that caused them to be potentially subject to corruption,
Ge 2:17 - "Dying (spiritually), you shall die (physically)," indicates that the consequences of spiritual and physical death were a new thing, a departure from what they had, a loss, and not what they were created with.was the fact that they weren't eternal. They were created as temporal beings;
It doesn't account for eternal (everlasting) punishment (Mt 25:46), which requires living forever.which essentially is what made the fall inevitable. This is why those born of the Spirit of God have "eternal" life because God is eternal. And on the flip side of this; those who will face God's wrath for their sin; will never escape that condemnation because they are not eternal. Everything God created has "a beginning"; thus nothing in this cosmos (except God Himself) is eternal.
Does that make sense?
It's about neither theology nor "Calvinism."I have a grasp of scriptural terms. I don't have a grasp of Calvinistic terms and definitions. The only theology that holds your view are those holding to all or some of Calvinism. That came in the 16th century. That makes it 15 hundred years the church never held such a view which is why it has been condemned since.
Seems to me, you totally missed what I said.Actually, in the NT eternal life is about the quality/kind of life; i.e., God's own divine life, which is eternal, and imparted to the immortal human spirit when it is born from above.
Lack of death is immortality.
In the NT, "eternal life" is not about duration, it is about God's own divine life, which is eternal because God is eternal,
just as my life is human because I am human, and my sweet puppy's life is animal life because he is animal, and the angel's life is spirit because it is spirit.
They were created physically immortal with God's eternal divine life within their immortal human spirit, they were not potentially subject to corruption.
They lost physical immortality (incorruption) as the result of their rebellion, and that immortality will be restored in the resurrection (1 Co 15:53).
Ge 2:17 - "Dying (spiritually), you shall die (physically)," indicates that the consequences of spiritual and physical death were a new thing, a departure from what they had, a loss, and not what they were created with.
It doesn't account for eternal (everlasting) punishment (Mt 25:46), which requires living forever.
It goes to your quite clear first statement about defining eternal life, upon which everything you said is built.Seems to me, you totally missed what I said.
But what you say, doesn't appear to me to contradict what my first statement was; thus why I say you missed the point of what I said.It goes to your quite clear first statement about defining eternal life, upon which everything you said is built.
You presented it in terms of its duration, making duration its qualifying characteristic, thereby excluding Adam who had a beginning,But what you say, doesn't appear to me to contradict what my first statement was; thus why I say you missed the point of what I said.
"Eternal life" is different than "human immortality"; because "eternity" has no beginning.
Adam had a beginning. He did not possess the attributes of God. Thus why I said Adam was inherently corruptible on account of being a temporally created entity.
"Immortal" is the quality of "not being killable". One who's atoned for is no longer killable because the atonement dealt with the reason why they were killable and condemnable in the first place. The atonement can make them no longer subject to death because He who accomplished the atonement is eternal.You presented it in terms of its duration, making duration its qualifying characteristic, thereby excluding Adam who had a beginning,
to the neglect of the NT's presentation of its quality, nature as God's divine life imparted to the immortal human spirit of the born from above.
God does not need to predestine everything. We know from scripture He did not predestine any person to become a believer. That would be against his essence that He is love. It also denies His Sovereign will to create man in His Image to be able to freely love. To freely return His love, not by force, or predestination.It's about neither theology nor "Calvinism."
It's about the NT usage of foreknowledge to mean God's foreknowledge, and about the meaning of predestination as shown in Ro 8:29-30, which requires a NT understanding of the words foreknowledge and predestination.
Agreed. . .God does not need to do anything.God does not need to predestine everything.
We know precisely the opposite from Ro 8:29-30, where "predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son" means believer/faith.We know from scripture He did not predestine any person to become a believer.
That is fallen human reasoning set against the plain word of God in Ro 8:29-30:That would be against his essence that He is love. It also denies His Sovereign will to create man in His Image to be able to freely love. To freely return His love, not by force, or predestination.
I don't know, that's why I asked the question. You said:I give up, do I? . . .News to me.
Confession is between you and the Lord. You don't need to tell us you're good at being shonky.She does well at it too!
Agreed. . .God does not need to do anything.
It's not about what he needs to do, it's about what he has sovereignly willed to do.
We know precisely the opposite from Ro 8:29-30, where "predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son" means believer/faith.
That is fallen human reasoning set against the plain word of God in Ro 8:29-30:
"For those God foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son. . .and those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.". . .past tense. . .done deal. . .forever settled in heaven.
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