Did Adam and Eve fall?

[sentipente]

In Genesis Adam is warned against eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, lest he die. The entire account presents a few problems.

After they eat the fruit God makes no mention of death. Instead he applies curses that were never mentioned in the beginning, giving the impression that what Adam and Eve did was not a violation of the command. As if to support that they are driven from the garden "lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever." Obviously, the penalty of death had not been imposed.

Is it possible that we have misinterpreted that passage?

 

[OnlyBelieve]

Hi There,
I don't think there is mis-interpretation(is that a word?) anyway, God Clearly tells Adam, IF YOU EAT ITS FRUIT YOU WILL DIE.

Gensis 2:16 But the Lord God warned him, “You may freely eat the fruit of every tree in the garden—17 except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die.

Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your brow
will you have food to eat
until you return to the ground
from which you were made.
For you were made from dust,
and to dust you will return.”

So he does add curses but he has already told him he will die. The Lord only has to speak once, then he is bound by his word. Both Adam hearing and the Lord saying, are bound by the word. You see before the fall, we were not to die, but live in compaionship with God. After the fall, it says, "from dust you were made and dust you shall return." Thus, we will die and not live with God forever.

I hope this helps
God Bless You

 

[redeemedbychrist]

They did die.

1) They died spiritually. From that point they lost communion with God and were no longer able to walk and talk with him in the garden. They were put out of the garden.

2) They died physically. Sin had entered their body, from that point there was decay within them. They didnt die at that point but the cause of their death had entered their lives and they would die at a later point.
The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord Romans 6v23

And with regard to the eating of the tree of life- had they eaten it they would have lived forever in their sinful state.

 

[sentipente]

If they were under a penalty of death eating of the tree of life could not have reversed it. Then there is the implication that good and evil existed before they ate and the penalty for good was the same as the penalty for evil. We know they die but that death was a natural death. It had nothing to do with eating the fruit.

 

[OnlyBelieve]

It sure does, just like a child, they are not punished until they DO something wrong.
Adam and Eve Disobeyed God, Disobedience to GOD is why they died. Both spiritually and physically.
Yes, Good and Evil did exist before they ate. Satan was cast down from heaven.
Luke 10:18 “Yes,” he told them, “I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning!
This is why he was in the Serpent.
If they had not disobyed God, they would still be in fellowship with him.

 

[redeemedbychrist]

If they were under a penalty of death eating of the tree of life could not have reversed it. Then there is the implication that good and evil existed before they ate and the penalty for good was the same as the penalty for evil. We know they die but that death was a natural death. It had nothing to do with eating the fruit.

I disagree- it had everything to do with them eating the fruit. Had they not eaten the fruit they would never have died. Because death comes as a result of sin. Without sin they would have remained the perfect state in which they were created. However sin entering them started the clock ticking and set the point at which they would die.

 

[sentipente]

Can we stick with the text? We know that people in the Bible misunderstood God all the time. The disciples never really understood Jesus after spending three years with him. And the early church clearly misinterpreted Jesus' words to Peter. Did Adam think that good was completely separate from evil, based on what God told him?

 

[sentipente]

But having eaten the fruit why separate them from the tree of life?

 

[Assyrian]

Adam was told he would surely die the day he ate from the tree. Clearly he didn't die physically that day, so God's warning meant the death he did die that day, spiritual death.

 

[Hentenza]

If they were under a penalty of death eating of the tree of life could not have reversed it. Then there is the implication that good and evil existed before they ate and the penalty for good was the same as the penalty for evil. We know they die but that death was a natural death. It had nothing to do with eating the fruit.

The death is the natural death. There was no death in the world until it was introduced by their sin. Secondly, there was evil before they disobeyed God. Satan had already fallen.

 

[sentipente]

If death came as a result of sin threatening Adam with death would have had no effect because he would know what it means to die.

 

[OnlyBelieve]

You mean, did Adam understand LIFE and DEATH? WRONG and RIGHT?

I have only quoted scripture so why are you saying, stick with the text?

 

[sentipente]

When Adam was in the Garden he had not other text to go by. We have to approach the passage from that perspective. We cannot interpret what happened to Adam in light of how it was understood later. Not if we are going to be true to the Scriptures.

 

[Hentenza]

If death came as a result of sin threatening Adam with death would have had no effect because he would know what it means to die.

He found out when he ate from the tree of knowledge. Adam did not eat from the tree of life.

 

[sentipente]

If I tell you, "Don't touch the glass" you have to understand what the glass means for it to make any sense.

 

[sentipente]

He found out when he ate from the tree of knowledge. Adam did not eat from the tree of life.

That really does not compute. That's like saying he had to do what he was told not to do for him to make sense of life. Come on.

 

[redeemedbychrist]

If death came as a result of sin threatening Adam with death would have had no effect because he would know what it means to die.

Do you have any children? I don't but I do work in a nursery. When I discipline a child I give them a warning-

1) Dont do this or this will happen.

Now if that child obeys me and never has to be disciplined they may not fully understand the concept of the punishment for they did not experience it. However they still understand the idea of it broadly.

In the same respect we have not experienced the rapture but we know that it will happen but we do not understand the technicalities of it. (of course if you dont believe in the rapture you will have to come up with your own example)

I believe the same here in regard to Adam

 

[OnlyBelieve]

If death came as a result of sin threatening Adam with death would have had no effect because he would know what it means to die.

God did not THREATEN Adam with death, he said "you WILL surely die" no threat. Statement.

and your saying, Adam wouldn't die beacuse he knew what death is? I know what death is, I will still die.

 

[redeemedbychrist]

God did not THREATEN Adam with death, he said "you WILL surely die" no threat. Statement.

I like that, that was what I was getting at with my example of disciplining a child

 

[Hentenza]

That really does not compute. That's like saying he had to do what he was told not to do for him to make sense of life. Come on.

The command to Adam was not to eat from the tree in the middle of the garden. Adam knew that there was a tree in the middle of the garden. I don't see the problem.